Has anyone stood up to the cheaters yet?

[StaffSaberist]

Odd. I loaded up OJP, and turned on debugmelee, and it worked fine. I had my saber out, not my fists, but I had no problem grabbing the wall. I had to work at it to do that Spiderman thing. Which was cool. Good for ambushes...

 

Uh, curious... are n00b's welcome on Meatgrinder? I can slaughter the iBots, but I haven't had the best of luck vs. other humans. If I start losing, I start flailing the Staff. I don't resort to katas, but I do start just randomly attacking. I don't have "Jedi-calm" yet. And I am sure to lose a lot. Is that alright?

[thehomicidalegg]

of course, just join and have fun. about the player numbers, i think its mostly packed when the siege maps comes up on rotation and usually, quite alot stay on for a holocron map or two afterwards.

 

also, i dunno but i'd think the bots mght use force more if they arent always depleted from kata'ing . this is a complete waste of time in jedimaster...even having them spammings lighting would be more effective. auto-push-response to some of the weapons would help too. good work on getting the bots picking up ammo though - you never know how many rockets one truly has

[Lathain Valtiel]

I've yet to see a rgbsaber on the meatgrider and it's been online for months. As for TrueView, I'm confused as to how this alters the gameplay. All it does is change your point of view.

 

Yeah, the meatgrinder population does vary a lot. I suspect it's normally the gametype playing that attracts or repels users. I haven't bothered to analyse our game logs about that.

 

1: I think only me, Antilles, and like two other guys actively use it. Surprisingly, few people know they're running a mod on Meatgrinder.

 

2: This is correct. People start leaving when Holocron comes up... Almost nobody likes it when they are reduced to the essentials. Jedi Master isn't popular either, mainly due to the fact that a few people are so good at it as to become dominating.

[StaffSaberist]

I like to play Jedi Master, but I usually set the Holocron # to either 5 or Unlimited. Unlimited makes you a prime target to anyone with brains. (i.e, not the Bots ) I also like a good Jedi Master game, but of course I have yet to play it with other people. Good for touching up gunning skills.

 

Thanks, homicidalegg. I can't join Meatgrinder yet, I'm mapping as I type. But I'll check it out after classes today

[marvidchano]

By cheaters I mean slider and the other mod makers who keep adding insane cheats into the game like grapplehooks and jetpacks, and who tweak the game settings for infinite force and lightside advantages.

huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?

[ZeroX2]

huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?

I believe one of the Siege maps contains a character with the Jet Pack. Other than that, you must use mods or cheats.

 

Do it like you normally do it in a non-OJP game?

But it's impossible. You can do a wall-jump with g_debugmelee 1, yes. But you cannot do a force wall-jump with that setting.

[Kurgan]

Odd. I loaded up OJP, and turned on debugmelee, and it worked fine. I had my saber out, not my fists, but I had no problem grabbing the wall. I had to work at it to do that Spiderman thing. Which was cool. Good for ambushes...

 

Okay, now I'm confused, what were these folks complaining about if it works?

 

I'm still going to have to check this out. Too bad I'm going on vacation this weekend for a week.. maybe Friday before I leave.

 

Uh, curious... are n00b's welcome on Meatgrinder?

 

Of course they are welcome. I only ask of you two things:

 

1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all...

 

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

 

We're pretty easy going almost to a fault, so come in and have fun. If you don't take losing hard then you should have a good time!

 

I can slaughter the iBots, but I haven't had the best of luck vs. other humans. If I start losing, I start flailing the Staff. I don't resort to katas, but I do start just randomly attacking. I don't have "Jedi-calm" yet. And I am sure to lose a lot. Is that alright?

 

You may need to "resort" to certain tactics if you want to win (unless you're of the "honorz" mentality, but each to his own... just don't seriously cite your handicaps as an excuse for your loss, that always sounds like sore loser-ship!). You will learn...

 

A good way to train is to play against people better than you (and to spectate them sometimes to see how they play) because it sharpens your skills (even if you are utterly demolished, your next battle with a lesser opponent will go better, from the edge you've gained) and teaches you things.

[Kurgan]

2: This is correct. People start leaving when Holocron comes up... Almost nobody likes it when they are reduced to the essentials. Jedi Master isn't popular either, mainly due to the fact that a few people are so good at it as to become dominating.

 

That's not entirely correct, at least from what I've seen. It's true that when we started Holocron, some folks, like Cannoli (which surprised me) considered it pathetic and didn't foresee it being popular. But I've checked numerous times when it's been running and found 8, 10, even 12 people playing it. We usually don't pull in those kinds of numbers with Jedi Master, for comparison!

 

Some days are slower than others and some times of day are slower than others. I guess it all depends on when you come in. But I know at least some people are willing to try this game mode. But then I was checking it from the website tracker. For all I know those folks spent the entire match whining.

 

But then they all had points, so it couldn't have been that bad! heh

 

 

As for the RGB thing, I can understand people not using it. OJP has only two servers, and so a lot of people probably don't realize our mod is a server mod. They may have heard of it, but think it's just for single player or they think of Enhanced (though at least 6 months ago I remember telling people about OJP and they had to have it explained to them what it was exactly). To use RGB you have to have the client portion installed and running on your end. Sure you can see other sabers, but Lath's pretty much right, it's a couple of regulars that are "in the know" that take advantage.

[ZeroX2]

Of course they are welcome. I only ask of you two things:

 

1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all...

 

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

 

We're pretty easy going almost to a fault, so come in and have fun. If you don't take losing hard then you should have a good time!

Don't forget disabling kill-trackers! >_>

[Kurgan]

huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?

 

In the basic game (which is all you get... no mods for the console versions, sorry!) for JK2 there are no jetpacks. In JA you can only use a jetpack on Siege Desert (Tatooine) as the Mercenary Scout (Boba Fett). Jump and then hit use in mid air to activate.(this is all described on my site incidentally).

 

In JA single player, you can change your model with the playermodel command (in MP, it's \model instead). If you change yourself to Boba Fett, you can use his jetpack (though it's very different than the MP version). I don't know if you can use this cheat in the Xbox version of the game, as I've never played it (does the Xbox even have a keyboard?).

 

In Jedi Outcast there were a few mods that enabled Jetpacks, such as ProMod. I never used the jetpack in these mods, but I imagine it was similar. The first Jetpack and Grapple hook mods in the series were in the original Jedi Knight.

 

Of course the Grapple hook was an old mod that first appeared in Quake1.

[El Sitherino]

But it's impossible. You can do a wall-jump with g_debugmelee 1, yes. But you cannot do a force wall-jump with that setting.

Bull****, I did it 3 times yesterday.

[ZeroX2]

Bull****, I did it 3 times yesterday.

Video please.

[Kurgan]

I'm not sure how I want to change that as it could cause the team scores/autobalancer to really flip out. I've retooled how the balancer picks which player to move so it should be much more consistant with moving the bots instead of players. I don't think I've updated the server with that yet thou.

 

Well in CTF it wouldn't matter because all that counts is captures. But I can see the problem in Team FFA. How do mods like Xmod2 handle it? Apparently they do the "keep your score" option. Even if it let you keep your score minus one, that would be great (if above zero of course!). It should only reset your score if you have negatives.

 

Perhaps it stores a team score vs. player scores? Or perhaps it could? I know other games handle this, but they're not Q3 engine games...

I mean here's the thing: when you have a certain team score, and let's say you have 50 points. And 49 of those points were score by one person on the team (everybody else got zero except one other guy who got one). And the 49 point guy switches teams, disconnects or goes into spectator. Do all his points leave with him? No, they stay with the team score, and his score turns to zero. You're thinking if he switched teams and kept his score, the other team would suddenly GAIN 49 points? Just make it so that joining a team doesn't add any points.

 

Anyway, I'd love to see those new changes, but I really think the score thing would help tons.

 

As for the random ping for bots, it appears to make people happier about playing the bots. Many people are strictly anti-bot, no matter how good they are. As such, people will happily play against TABBots if they think they are humans. Strange, but true.

 

Agree 100% on this. It really cuts down on whining. I've had people carry on conversations with the bots, and even whine about their skillz. If they suddenly find out they are bots they then say "bots suck" etc and sometimes leave. It's hilarious (because up till that point they were being challenged by the bots and admitting the bots were good!).

 

Bots are necessary to keep a server live and going, as I've always maintained, so it's a nice way to sneak them in without pissing off the anti-bot types.

 

TABbots do use force powers. It's just that their force powering abilities are limited to the few powers that I've been able to program into the system.

 

Thanks for clarifying. We should start getting some more powers in there.

 

Unfortunately most of the force powers involve a LOT of situational logic to be able to use properly like a human would. I simply haven't been able to deduce that logic yet, and noone has provided help in that area.

 

Some don't require any logic at all, like Team Heal/Team Energize. As a human, you can bind these powers to your movement keys. So you are running along and if you have enough mana and a teammate comes into range of you, they get the power used on them. Bots could do this the same way. It's sort of like how the Tech bots are constantly throwing ammo, even if there's nobody around to pick it up.

 

Could any clues on how to use the powers be deduced from the basejka bots? After all, they somehow "know" when to use the powers they use. At least it would be a nice temporary fix until you figure out a "better way."

 

Perhaps like how when you create a bot file in botmaker, you set a "heirarchy" for what weapons they prefer. You could also set a heirarchy for what powers they prefer. I know that doesn't count all the intricacies of Force use, but it could help. Plus a bot doesn't have every force power, he only has a few (like a human would) according to his bot profile. So he doesn't have to choose from everything (unless he's the Jedi Master, or somebody with some random holocrons).

 

I just want the bots to at least be as powerful as the old school bots, not just better on some areas, but worse in others. It's great if they can accomplish objectives, but if they suck in combat, how do they get to that point? Anyway, good luck.

[ZeroX2]

Bots are necessary to keep a server live and going, as I've always maintained, so it's a nice way to sneak them in without pissing off the anti-bot types.

But then it pisses off the anti-random-ping-bot types.

 

Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses? It's pointless, and annoying.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, muting killtrackers goes without saying! Heh

 

But then it pisses off the anti-random-ping-bot types.

 

Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses? It's pointless, and annoying.

 

Because kicking people and grapple them (especially when you have no saber) is FUN.

 

And if the Force wall jump takes more skill to use, who am I to argue with that? At least it still works, according to you guys.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Kurg: The high numbers you usually see for Holocron area side-effect of Siege being on right before it. They get bored and leave in most cases I've seen.

[Kurgan]

Based on their scores, I imagine they stayed at least for one map change, if not longer. Holocron is just as exciting as FFA, you just don't have preset Force (and are thus limited to 3 force powers... 4 counting Level 1 Jump that you always have).

 

In any case, my point is that it's not like people see it and immediately go "oh not this lame gametype" and disconnect.

[El Sitherino]

Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses?

So you have to actually have skill to use a technique.

 

And to say that nobody ever uses it is both moronic and false. Perhaps instead of having an opinion on something you know nothing about, you should take time to educate yourself.

 

It's pointless, and annoying.

So is your whining about a move that is also "pointless and annoying".

[ZeroX2]

I have never seen anybody use it on Meatgrinder. You can't tell somebody that his/her experiences are "both moronic and false".

 

And if the Force wall jump takes more skill to use, who am I to argue with that? At least it still works, according to you guys.

Why not decrease the damage of the guns? Then they would take more skill to use, too. And turn up g_forceregentime. Then you would need to manage your force use even more carefully. Anyway, it doesn't take more skill. It takes more luck - this really is impossible to perform on the larger maps with a lower FPS.

[El Sitherino]

I have never seen anybody use it on Meatgrinder. You can't tell somebody that his/her experiences are "both moronic and false".

 

No, I can't, but I can tell you that your statement is moronic and false. And I did.

 

Why not decrease the damage of the guns? Then they would take more skill to use, too. And turn up g_forceregentime. Then you would need to manage your force use even more carefully. Anyway, it doesn't take more skill. It takes more luck - this really is impossible to perform on the larger maps with a lower FPS.

Wah.

[razorace]

Well in CTF it wouldn't matter because all that counts is captures. But I can see the problem in Team FFA. How do mods like Xmod2 handle it? Apparently they do the "keep your score" option. Even if it let you keep your score minus one, that would be great (if above zero of course!). It should only reset your score if you have negatives.

 

I'd like to try my improved code on the server before we go to preserving scores.

 

Some don't require any logic at all, like Team Heal/Team Energize. As a human, you can bind these powers to your movement keys.

 

Ah, see I thought you had to aim those powers.

 

Could any clues on how to use the powers be deduced from the basejka bots? After all, they somehow "know" when to use the powers they use. At least it would be a nice temporary fix until you figure out a "better way."

 

Unfortunately, the basejka force power code is pretty basic. I've been wary about porting any of it because it's so dependant on the way things work in the basejka bot code.

 

Perhaps like how when you create a bot file in botmaker, you set a "heirarchy" for what weapons they prefer. You could also set a heirarchy for what powers they prefer. I know that doesn't count all the intricacies of Force use, but it could help. Plus a bot doesn't have every force power, he only has a few (like a human would) according to his bot profile. So he doesn't have to choose from everything (unless he's the Jedi Master, or somebody with some random holocrons).

 

The botfiles already have weapon preferences and the TABBot code uses that information. This is the reason why some bots seem stubbornly stuck on using blasters and such.

 

As for the force powers, I THINK the bot files also covers which force powers the bot wants. I don't know how that particular system affects which force powers the bots get.

 

I just want the bots to at least be as powerful as the old school bots, not just better on some areas, but worse in others. It's great if they can accomplish objectives, but if they suck in combat, how do they get to that point? Anyway, good luck.

The bots are already suprior to the basejka bots @ combat they just don't use force powers. In fact, they pretty much dominated the basejka bots and that was in the prototype phase.

[ZeroX2]

Wah.

Do you have anything better to say than that?

[StaffSaberist]

1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all...

 

I rarely even chat mid-game. Sometimes, after I fall to my doom, I may type in "Oops, that was dumb" or something like that. If I see three enemies, and I start a kata to kill them, and two die before I hit them, I apologize, because you shouldn't use it vs. one opponent, IMHO. I have two preset chat buttons:

 

If I see in FFA an idling opponent, I Force-Push, jump so I am in front of them, and hit a button that says "Hello there!" (ala Ep. III.) I don't attack when they are down on purpose. (Sometimes I accidentally do a finishing move)

 

If an enemy is doing something appaling (like capturing my flag) and I can do something about it, I have a preset button that says, "Not if anything to say about it, *I* have!" (Usually when I am about to Force-Push or saber-ambush them.) I sometimes get the other players laughing, and that gets them distracted... focus you must have to survive, Padawan...

 

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

 

I believe you read my arguments on the great single/staff debate, since you had to split it off... thanks, btw. I fight with my system of honor, but that does include using guns when it's necessary. I tend to prefer the saber to the guns, if I have a choice, but I'm not afraid of using the Repeater. Sometimes I try to take a back route, but even then I usually get out a gun to have relative stealth.

 

I am having trouble finding Meatgrinder, the search doesn't come up... and QTracker can see about 5 games with near-identical IP addresses, but not quite the same. I'll keep looking.

[razorace]

Just add it as a favorite and you should be able to directly connect to it.

[StaffSaberist]

Ah, yes, found it. And a ping of 84, no less! A great server with great ping?? Impossible, I say!! And yet, here it is. Wow. I have 0 experience with the Siege levels, though. =/ I want the first impression of me to be at least a little better than "total n00b". I probably will be one, but I'll wait till the next gametype. Besides, that gives me ample time to get my @$$ hauling on that map I'm doing. Hasn't been easy, mentally... but I will join, I swear. (Oops, we aren't allowed to swear.)