JRHockney* Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ok, I'm resurrecting my old megathread to bring about another EXTREME idea that have been talking about with Razor and we want the communities comments on it. We all know that in actual saber combat, there are one hit kills, like what Palp did to two jedi in the Mace vs Palp duel. OJP doesnt really have that at the moment and I have heard alot of comments wanting more danger in our system. The problem is that it is hard to add more danger without sacrificing our awesome comboing system and movielike look of sabers always being in the air. Well, I think I may have figured out a way to have one hit kills without sacrificing anything as far as I can tell. Basically: All hits with a saber on a running saberist are fatal, but if you hit a saberist and your running, there is a damage increase of x1.5 or maybe x2 the damage of what ever swing you did (whether attack fakes/power feints or normal swings). Whether it should be 1.5 or 2 will be decided in testing. This way, we can have the same toe to toe combat we always have while we're walking, but if we time our quick runs right, we can do more damage or lose it all. I've done some test with my own code on this and it seem s to work pretty well and its VERY easy to accidently run into a hit and die. Unfortunately I've come to find out that my code in it is unreliable and my increase damage thing doesnt work right so Razor will have to code it if we decide to do it. There are alot of potential benefits to making this change that I've been able to surmise: -more movie realism -more strategy -potentially faster duels depending on player preference and gametype (might be faster for seige and ctf and what not) -better and more possible Two on One combat. So, what does everybody think? EDIT: I almost forgot, there would be an exception for hitting slowbounces and heavybounces with running hits for more damage. That just wouldn'tbe fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crail227 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ah this is what ive been waiting for! At the moment, i agree with this kind of change, hopefully after we all try it out then we can make better opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDie Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think it sounds like a great idea. It will defanatly make it more move realistic. I vote Aye. Ayes: 2(3 including hockney), Nays: 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I don't see how running should magically result in death. I'm worried this is just going to result in "unexpected" death reports and a lot of players just waiting for a jedi to run OR kill whoring runnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 I don't see how running should magically result in death. I'm worried this is just going to result in "unexpected" death reports and a lot of players just waiting for a jedi to run OR kill whoring runnings. Because they magically got hit with a lightsaber and didn't block it? Normal walking could be considered our manual block in this case I guess, but we still have parrying as our primary means. If people complain in battle about how they died when they obviously ran, tell them their stupid for not reading the manual or attempting to run. And its not like its hard to just walk and swing, thats what OJP players are use to anyways. If they are good enough to hit a person in a run with this change, then they deserve to win or the other person was reckless. Besides, in MB2 if you don't hold the block button (which makes you walk) for a hit, youre dead or most of your BPs gone. They don't complain about it over there. The way I'm suggesting is a heck of alot more safe than MB2 (and very different since we have free reign to swing in walking and most players will use this sparingly) and geared for our combat. More than that, this is just an experiment to see how well it works more than anything. If people don't like it or there's too many problems with it, we'll change it or take it out. But I think the reasons I've stated above are good enough to give it a go. If its too much I suppose we could allow parrying in running, but death if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 This would be a big exception to the normal Dodge = Protection rules (something that we have extended to even explosions). I don't see why running should be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I'm voting Aye too.. The whole Dodge=protection thing is getting out of hand to the point where it's not realitic by movie, EU or "real" happenings. It's frustrating to know that a gunner can buy a lightsaber for 4 points and decrease the amount of Dodge points they lose from a saberslash to half or less, it's annoying that a Jedi gets a rocket straight to the face but can still kill you due to you only harming his DP, it's dumb that a Jedi can survive 2 times 8 points worth of detpacks with no more than a scratch while a Jedi can scramble together 4 to 8 for a single force power that would be more effective and would have unlimited ammo. There is nothing wrong with that but Jedi need a vulnerability, you can't concentrate and look into the future when you're running and thinking about how to kill your opponent. You can't easily dodge a rocket when (insert reason here)! I'm not asking for Jedi to get castrated I'm just asking for Jedi to get a reason to take out their sabers and go for a critical running hit and giving them less protection when they're running is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I certainly haven't seen gunner use sabers to block saber swings. Even if I did, I don't see a problem with that since gunners are still going to have less DP anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 well, we got quite a few aye votes here, but I'd like to get the opinions of Jack, UDM, and Tanqexe here too since they are the other Masters of this saber system and anybody else who wants to post... EDIT: oh yeah, and Buffy since she's the longest running player out of all of us except Razor or maybe Max I think. And Sushi, but I haven't seen him in ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Count my opinion out. You know as well as everyone else here does that I'm no good at making suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Would you guys have some time this saturday to play with me and a friend? I want to show you some stuff. Lets plan things further on IM when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Unfortunately, most of my free time is during the middle of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Well, I just got Jacks opinion I think and he seems to like the idea too. Still waiting on Tanqexe's opinion, but so far it looks like enough people like it to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanqexe Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Instead of instant kill, make saber hits on running targets ignore dodge and do massive HP/shield damage. This should apply to not just Jedi but gunners as well, and it makes sense; you can't really twist your body this way and that when you're in the middle of running, unless you're freaking Spider-man. Instant kill from running is bad for 2 on 1 contrary to one of the points listed there. On a similar note...perhaps if the gunner mishap meter is mid- to high level, saberists can also destroy the gunner's current weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Instead of instant kill, make saber hits on running targets ignore dodge and do massive HP/shield damage. This should apply to not just Jedi but gunners as well, and it makes sense; you can't really twist your body this way and that when you're in the middle of running, unless you're freaking Spider-man. Instant kill from running is bad for 2 on 1 contrary to one of the points listed there. On a similar note...perhaps if the gunner mishap meter is mid- to high level, saberists can also destroy the gunner's current weapon? I'm sure it often will anyways since not all hits on a person out of DP instantly kill. An I think t will help two on one in the long run because the "two" have to watch out for their partners saber and have to run around them alot as well to hit the "one." Heck its this kind of vulnerability that makes two on one combat in MB2 reasonable as well. Its possible to take on four other jedi at once because they all have to watch out for their partners sabers and run alot. Aside from that, a big part of this idea is allowing for instant kills with saber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanqexe Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Oh, I'm just looking at this in terms of the single duelist, because more often than not he's the one that's going to need to backpedal and run to evade. What I'm saying is that instead of making hits on a runner an instant kill, just make it so that damages bypass the dodge meter and directly affect the health and shields. This way EVERYONE in a 2 on 1 duel (in any saber/gunner combination) will have to watch out for each other, but it also prevents the already greatly disadvantaged single duelist from getting skewered after getting hit repeatedly by 2 people and needs to evade and recover. Hmm...how about this - saber hits to the back of anyone running instantly kills them, and elsewhere does massive HP/shield damage. This way the partner in the 2 on 1 will REALLY have to watch where he swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Ok, how about this. We try my idea at the code server when we get around to doing it and if its too much, we'll go with your idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Lightsaber strikes are lethal without DP protection. I don't think it's a good idea to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Lightsaber strikes are lethal without DP protection. I don't think it's a good idea to change that. Not always. Alot of times you just get HPed depending on the angle of the hit. Why do you think Jack was always pressuring you to raise the Damage levels to 999? Anyways, this idea now has the vast VAST majority of the community's approval to test at least. Given the potential benefits that I've listed before for this, I think we should give it an honest shot to see how well it really works soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Isn't the damage already at max? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 29, 2007 Author Share Posted April 29, 2007 Isn't the damage already at max? No Its like 240 or something like that. Should technically kill the first hit, but it doesnt half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Yeah, you often survive a saber slash, I hate that. Same with shots, sometimes you can shoot a jedi 8 times when he has not enough DP to block or dodge, and he'll get damaged, but for like 10 or so, so he gets hit but survives... a lot of times... What about disabling the DP damage reduction, if you don't have enough DP to perform a body dodge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 You're right, it's mainly due to the partial Dodges. The weapon damage levels are based on lethal damage based on hit locations. IE, pistols kill with headshots, rifles kill with torso hits, etc. But, this might need to be tweaked since players currently start out with more health than 100 when respawning. Bug ticket the problem and I can look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 G_saberdamagescale or something seems to fix it when set to higher levels, though I like it lower. There aren't a lot of Jedi that died from single slashes if they weren't Juyo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Well, when you "die" in-game, it doesn't mean for sure that you are dead, if you compare to the movies. Dying my being slashed in the arm in the game is like Anakin losing his fight against Dooku, he is not dead, but he is KO, he cannot fight anymore. So any saber slash should be lethal (except throw of course, for obvious balance reasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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