Master Kan-Maz Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Yeah,the third side of the Force. -The Kans- Little information: There is knowledge. There is no stupidity. There is Kans. There is no Jedi. There is no Sith. There is Force. There is no weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Com Raven Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I won't lock this thread right away, but will keep an eye on it. Should there be a real discussion about a third side of the force, fine. Should it turn into a spam-fest, I'll drop da hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanda Keon Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The third side of the force is the grey force users, In between Jedi and sith, and they are extremely rare as their teachings are Stranger than the other two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray_Master Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The third side of the force is the grey force users, In between Jedi and sith, and they are extremely rare as their teachings are Stranger than the other two sides. Amen!! The Gray Jedi are by far the most ineresting force users to me...even though my LS jedis in TSL go full blown Light, I still consider my guy Gray in is attitude. Their should be a bonus for perfect Gray,,,umm IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Well... Ok, for some reason this seems to be a little bit close to "The Unifying Force" point of view, after the Vong's saga. Think Jacen after the whole thing. He is not afraid to use the ":darker" aspacts of the force, he would do preemptive strikes against possably evil enemies, he would... well you get the picture. Well, its not quite the same but well, I am not sure if its a side yet, or just something close to neutral/grey jedis. Luke is kinda oppose to these lines of thinking, but time will tell. Now ... where did you get the name Kans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The the grey Jedi are actually inherently weaker than Light or Dark Jedi becuase they resist the pull of the dark side while refusing to give themselves to the light. You end up as a jack of all trades, master of none. Thats been the official line for about ten years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Actually, they are the fourth. The Third is the Daft Side/MOJO side. "There is insanity, There is the Force." It's what happens when Jedi turn cuckoo-ka-choo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVandar205 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I beleive that Jolee Bindo in the original KOTOR game was a neutral or "gray side" jedi as he didnt beleive in either light or dark side and did things that both the Sith and Jedi would find questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Except that when it comes to the cruch he's a Jedi, remember the DS end to K1? Its well documented that grey Jedi are at a great disadvantage, Jolee suffers this, look at the modifiers for his Force point costs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I'm attracted to the 'grey side' because of the independence of their actions and the ability to survive without the parental overshadowing of the counsel. It would seem that there would be more options for a jedi that has his own relaxed set of morals and not tied to the rigid teachings of the order, though not quite evil in intent either. Intriguing... What is a more likely path to becoming grey? A light side jedi falling towards darker thinking and actions? ...or A Sith hopeful ascending from the shadows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Probably the latter, since when Jedi fall, they fall fast and they usually go all the way. Sith, however, need a lot of prodding to leave even half of the dark side, and that's if they want to be changed. They'd pro'lly take the easy path and not go all the way to Jedi, just hang around at gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ultimately, grey Jedi fall to the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ultimately, grey Jedi fall to the Dark Side. ...and you know this how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 ...and you know this how? You question Optimus Prime?! *GASP*! You must admit, they do seem to have a tendency to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 No, they can just be Jedi refusing to be fully light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Or Sith refusing to be fully dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90SK Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Jolee and Kreia are good examples of that third extreme of the force. Jolee portrays a human, rational viewpoint on the force, while Kreia has a similar (albeit much more nihilistic) viewpoint. ...and you know this how? It's logical. Someone who does not embrace the discipline it takes to refuse all the "temptations of the dark side" (which are basic emotions, like anger, and love) is going to be much more susceptible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 But if they can refuse all the temptations of the dark side, that would make them a Jedi. If they refuse none, they are Sith. What if they embrace exactly half of the teachings of the Jedi, and half the teachings of the Sith? Then they are true Gray Jedi. But "Jedi" no longer can apply, because a Jedi is of the light side of the Force. Therefore, the term "neutral force user" applies better. But it's easier to say Gray Jedi, or Gray Force-user. So, someone who is neutral either accepts none of the Force and is not part of the equation, or takes a perfect balance of the two Orders. If they slightly heed the call of the Dark Side, then they are Dark force-users, but not Sith. The Dark still remains stronger. But if the Gray force-user disciplines himself enough to slightly heed the light side, he is a Light force-user. Jolee is an example of this. But, neither of these two "slightly aligned" force-users are Jedi, Sith, or Gray Jedi. In truth, they form their own class. In that case, when does one become a Jedi? A Sith? That is when they allow none of the opposite alignment to have hold on their lives and beliefs. It is two extremes of the spectrum. Anything inbetween is not a true Jedi or Sith. This has nothing to do with strength in the Force. A padawan could be a Jedi, while one who is considered a Master is in fact not even a Jedi, because the Dark Side has some hold on him/her. Atris, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm kind of lost- did this guy just make up "the Kans", as some third side to the Force? But about grey Jedi, I don't really think that the light/dark meter in KotOR really interpretes who they are. How could you be half light, half dark? I don't really think of "grey Jedi" as mostly a in-between Jedi/Sith, but more like a third side, or just a point of view. In truth, they form their own class. Yeah, that is what I always thought. After all, Jolee couldn't be considered half-dark, he was a lightside force-user; And, I'm not sure if it is possible to be neither, you either are light or you are dark. As I said, the light dark meter really isn't how those kinds of things work, it can't count up all these times you did good/bad actions and figure what "number" you are. As SS just said, I think they are there own force-using side- although side really isn't right, they don't form there own order. More like the way they view the Force. As for Kreia, no one could really say she didn't have any dark tendencies; she ended up becoming a Sith Lord, so really she was more evil. But I don't think she would have put herself in the same classification as the usual "Sith," or at least that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Oh, it is true, you are light or dark or gray. But, if you would observe me, my personality, my actions, I would be considered Light Side. But were I endowed woth the Force, would that make me a Jedi? As Jolee said: "I follow the Jedi Way and I command the Force. I suppose that makes me a Jedi as much as anyone. I've seen both the light and the dark. and frankly, both extremes annoy me." I would not be considered a Jedi, but not a Gray force-user either. Oh, and I think the LSP/DSP system is a game element. Not at all like the movies and other games make the Force out to be. Of course, any real-life examples don't count. No, he wasn't half dark. If you checked his alignment, it is slightly Light Sided. Not a true Gray Force-user. But consider this: Even the ancient Jedi Lords had the Dark Side within them. Jolee said this when talking about love: "Love doesn't lead to the Dark Side. It's how you deal with the bad parts of love that determine your character, and the Dark Side's hold over you." That's true of any emotion, actually. It's how you deal with the negative that determines your alignment. You don't become a true Jedi by being isolated from all dark influence. It comes from facing such evils, and refusing to be part of it. That makes you more of a Jedi than a Gray. But that doesn't eliminate the Dark Side's hold over you as a person. You simply resist it. Think about this: The Jedi have warred against the Sith since the first rogue Jedi. Why hasn't one side won after thousands of years? The reason is that the Force cannot allow part of itself to be destroyed. Even if you take out both Sith Lords, all Dark Jedi, etc., the Dark Side still exists. The Jedi were around before the Sith, but there was still a Dark Side. So, the Jedi and Sith will war eternally - against themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 ^And why LS mastery/DS mastery in KOTOR is kind of a poor representation of how the dark side is like. Of course, I don't see any other way they could do it to make it "realistic." It is just that real life (even in SW) doesn't work that way, and there isn't some scale that moves up and down. In my opinion, even though grey is in the middle, I don't really think it should be in-between the two extremes. It deserves it's own side. But in that case, Jolee wasn't really a "grey Jedi." In fact, he wasn't really grey, because that would mean he was neither light nor dark, and you just can't be. While he may be between the Jedi and Sith teachings, alignment is something different, and he wasn't dark or evil. Not only that, he isn't a "Jedi" in the sense of a Knight in the normal Jedi Order, so personally, I'm not sure of the term "Grey Jedi" really is a good term for what Jolee was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 But in that case, Jolee wasn't really a "grey Jedi." In fact, he wasn't really grey, because that would mean he was neither light nor dark, and you just can't be. While he may be between the Jedi and Sith teachings, alignment is something different, and he wasn't dark or evil. Like I said, his alignment bends toward LS on the meter. Actually, alignment provides a skewed view of the Force, because it assumes that if you are near-fully LS you can't embrace a small Sith teaching. Like, doing good but relying on passion in battles. Not only that, he isn't a "Jedi" in the sense of a Knight in the normal Jedi Order, so personally, I'm not sure of the term "Grey Jedi" really is a good term for what Jolee was. No, not a full Gray Jedi. He is closer to Gray than Jedi, but he really is in the class of "in-between do-gooders". In my opinion, even though grey is in the middle, I don't really think it should be in-between the two extremes. It deserves it's own side. Technically, it is it's own side. But when you look at it from the right angle, any triangle looks like a straight line. Perhaps it's like this: The Force is a triangle, vertexes at Dark, Light, and Gray. But if you view said triangle on the triangle's plane, say looking at what teachings they follow, it looks like a line with Gray in the middle. Yes, I'm in geometry. No, I don't like it. Yes, I do have trouble getting it out of my head at obscure times. No, you can't touch my gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 As far as the meter, I didn't realize that. Are you sure? I thought the game had him at 50, right smack in the middle. And what do you mean by "Grey Jedi", exactly? Are you talking about just someone that is between the two sides, and takes teachings from both? Because even if they are, they still can't be "Grey". Unless you are interpreting "Grey" differently than I am. A person is a combination of light or dark- as you said, you can not be "light" and have no dark side part of you. That is why for these things I don't like how Jolee is interpreted with the meter in the game, because everybody is a combination of light, and yet some dark. Or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffSaberist Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 ^The meter has him at about 5% light. If you look for it, you will se it. He has a slight blue aura at his feet. And what do you mean by "Grey Jedi", exactly? Are you talking about just someone that is between the two sides, and takes teachings from both? Because even if they are, they still can't be "Grey". Unless you are interpreting "Grey" differently than I am. I take Gray Force-User as someone who follows their own teachings. But some of those teachings may be associated with either the Jedi or the Sith. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Kan-Maz Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Because the gray side had no name,i decided to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.