CadmiumRED Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Would it be possible if armor and robes can be worn at the same time? Look at Ulic Qel-Droma before he was a Sith, he wore armor/robes on him, and he looked REALLY cool. Maybe it might not be for KOTOR III, but I'd love to see this happen in future KOTOR games. What do you all think of this idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Dmitrius Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Maybe it's a good idea, but don't forget, that KotOR is a game, RPG game. If player wears an armor and a robe at the same time, armor will be too strong, player may become too strong for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 IIRC Darth Bandon from the original KotOR had light armor and seemed to use force powers normally restricted from use by armor-wearing characters. Coincidentally I'm in the middle of my first DS playthru of TSL and I keep thinking how it would rock to have light armor underneath robes for my Sith Marauder PC. So I think it's a great idea. Actually, Colma Adawin (formerly MattColejk) has a Jedi and Sith Battle Robes Mod that goes along these lines. I really like the look of it but the tslpatcher didn't seem to work right with my TSL installation, like it was installing the mod 2x. My game kept crashing to desktop after I installed it and it took me removing all my mods and reinstalling them minus Colma's battle robes mod before I could get my game to run OK again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 This is something I've always wanted;) The simple solution would be to add a new class consisting of light armor and robe models, with their own niche in the item statistics. The more complex (and ultimatley more rewarding) way would be to make it possible to combine different compatible types of underwear/clothes/armor/robes with different bonuses and penalties for each combination (per class not per individual item possibilities) One way might be to weaken the stats on most items but have a layering system... 1st layer, underwear: base layer, mainly aesthetic, no defense or attributes (with the exception of expensive units that might utilize nanobots for regeneration, insulation for resistances, etc.)...boxers, briefs or thong (female pc:xp: ) 2nd layer, clothing: most common item, base defense of 1-2 (3 would be very rare) more expensive outfits would provide some attribute benefits (less than armor, more than skivvies) the main advantage of clothing would be faction/alignment/attractiveness/charisma recognizable by npcs ingame. 3rd layer, armor: most versatile upgradeable item, base defense of 4-8 (with rare armor having base up to 10) easiest to find next to clothing, would include attachments for armbands and wrist rockets (they can still be used without armor, but armor including power units would give a small bonus to attached shields and weapons) 4th layer, robes: base defense 3-6 (rarest robes may have 7) larger robes can be worn over all armor (instead of optional replacement) the "smaller" the robe the lighter the armor it can fit over, may add dexterity penalty for wearing over armor. Redhawke can hash out the numbers with me:D I also want to see "real" gauntlets and boots, and maybe some sort of amulet (you could either use it to carry you're "one ring to rule them all" or possibly austin power's male symbol chain to increase mojo:cool: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Adding another class system seems a bit much, don't it? I'm sure as to why the armour restrictions in the game but this idea might be a bit out of league for the game unless someone creates a mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Well, the Jal Shey and Zeishon Sha armor seems to take care of that anyways. Armor, yet not restricting force powers like robes. As for these layers, that is a bit complicated- and unrealistic. Usually the PC isn't going to be wearing four layers of clothes. Way too much more to try and deal with, and besides, who in their right mind is going to wear underwear, clothes, armor, and robes at the same time, then go on to some super hot planet and fight Sith. It doesn't make any sense. You see, if you have armor, clothes, and robes on, your movement is going to be seriously slowed, and even more force powers would need to be restricted. So in the long run, it doesn't really make any difference. And besides, Jedi Robes are not meant to be armor- they are just that, Robes. If you want armored Jedi gear, go wear the Zeishon Sha and Jal Shey stuff. They already fit what you seem to want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Thanks for the tip Rob and by the way, I think the Jedi Council dropped you off on Bandomeer, in the middle of the Agri-Corp project. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark$eth Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I would like a cape in KotOR3. SUPERMAN! That happen on the.. the.. that armor with a cape and a skirt in TSL, I forgot what it is called, but it has a blue cape. The cape doesn't fly but rolls over limply when you move. I like that armor alot; it's Blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 If you want armored Jedi gear, go wear the Zeishon Sha and Jal Shey stuff. They already fit what you seem to want. *** looks around *** Uhh, you talkin' to me? Actually no, these armors don't fit what I want. While I like the fact that OE included some non-force restricted armor suits like the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey ones you refer to, I believe I've already pointed out a mod in post #3 of this thread that is more along the lines of what I would really like. Simply put, robes with light armor underneath. I'm thinking this parallels with rangers wearing leather armor underneath a forest cloak, affording a high degree of mobility and flexibility yet more protection than the cloak (a.k.a. robes) by itself. Besides the fact that IMO it just looks way cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I think the Jedi Council dropped you off on Bandomeer, in the middle of the Agri-Corp project. Have fun! What the ****!!! Those stupid moronic idiots! I thought they sent me to Dantooine! Grrrhh... *** looks around *** Uhh, you talkin' to me? More to everyone in general. I believe I've already pointed out a mod in post #3 of this thread that is more along the lines of what I would really like. Simply put, robes with light armor underneath. I'm thinking this parallels with rangers wearing leather armor underneath a forest cloak, affording a high degree of mobility and flexibility yet more protection than the cloak (a.k.a. robes) by itself. But what I said still stands- it is no longer a Robe. It is light armor with a cape. In fact, it still is similar to the armors I mentioned, if you think about it. It has a robe/cloak/skirt, whatever, connected to a lightly armored suit. So there is no Robe/Armor combination like you seem to want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Robes and armour at the same time is a bad idea. As Rob pointed out, if you want to wear non-restrictive armour, then wear the Zeison-sha armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 What is the pupose of armor? To increase the defense rating, correct? The trade off for increased defense is that some of your force abilities are negated. Zeison-Sha Jedi robes are a great way to raise your defense rating while maintaining your force capabilities. Unfortunately, they are very ugly. I hardly use them. Jal-Shey robes are similar in that they don't restrict force capabilities but provide somewhat adequate protection. Unfortunately, these are ugly also. These two robes are also upgradeable to a point to make them a bit more effective. If you can stand the sight of them. I was really dissapointed when I aquired Darth Bandon's armor and was force power restricted. It would be really sweet to aquire the armor/robes, and weapons of a fallen opponent though. I really wanted to wear Nihilus' mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I don't like them either so I guess that's two for us. I use robes anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 More to everyone in general. OK. Got it. But what I said still stands- it is no longer a Robe. It is light armor with a cape. In fact, it still is similar to the armors I mentioned, if you think about it. It has a robe/cloak/skirt, whatever, connected to a lightly armored suit. So there is no Robe/Armor combination like you seem to want. Have you checked out my link to Colma Adawin's mod in post #3 of this thread? Those battle robes look like Jedi robes to me, not a cape. When I used the word parallel it was meant to draw a similarity, not say they would be exactly the same. Instead of just the regular Jedi tunic underneath the robes they have an armored vest but other than that I think the outfit looks fairly Jedi-like. Robes and armour at the same time is a bad idea. As Rob pointed out, if you want to wear non-restrictive armour, then wear the Zeison-sha armour. IYO, not mine. I believe I've made it abundantly clear in this thread that I like the idea of light armor (or armored vest if you will) underneath Jedi robes. I don't know where you and Rob get off on telling those of us who like the armored robes to just deal with it and wear Zeison Sha or Jal Shey armor. Have you somehow missed the whole purpose behind modding? What if I told you, Darth Windu, that violet lightsabers is a bad idea and to use green or blue ones instead? Would you like that? I'm somewhat surprised at your temerity seeing as you're what I consider a forum veteran. I guess I should read more of your posts to see if I should have been surprised or not. I was really dissapointed when I aquired Darth Bandon's armor and was force power restricted. It would be really sweet to aquire the armor/robes' date=' and weapons of a fallen opponent though. I really wanted to wear Nihilus' mask.[/quote'] Yeah, I was disappointed too. Not only that it had the force power restrictions of normal armor but that when I equipped my PC with it he didn't look the same as Bandon did when he wore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone L68362 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Calm down Hai Wan. You're acting like he openly insulted you. He never said deal with it either. Just that the Zeison Sha stuff is a good substitute for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Perhaps you're right, Clone L68362. But you're not helping matters... From my perspective there is a big difference between "___ is a bad idea" and "I think ___ is a bad idea" If someone has an opposing opinion to mine I strive to respect that. I will argue my point but if someone doesn't see it my way then I accept their decision as their right and prerogative. But it bothers me when people make statements as if what they say is absolute truth. Statements like that don't sit well with me (as if you couldn't tell already;)) I get that Rob Qel-Droma and Darth Windu poo-poo the robes+armor idea. Obviously I won't be asking them to make any robes+armor mods for me as I believe that would be a waste of my time. But it seems to me like neither took the time to consider my argument that the robes+armor concept is feasible and in fact has already been done. I guess that is what really irks me. If they had come back and said, "Yeah, I checked that out but I still don't like it" then it would have been end of argument for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I don't know where you and Rob get off on telling those of us who like the armored robes to just deal with it and wear Zeison Sha or Jal Shey armor. Have you somehow missed the whole purpose behind modding? What if I told you, Darth Windu, that violet lightsabers is a bad idea and to use green or blue ones instead? Would you like that? Clone is right: CALM DOWN, I wasn't insulting you, and I wasn't insulting anybody. But now you have gotten me a bit ticked off with what you have said. For one, I never said "deal with it." And I am a bit annoyed at your "I don't get where DW and you can get off telling us to deal with it when we like the armored robes." I have said this before- THERE ARE NO ARMORED ROBES, unless you count the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey Armor, which is really light armor with a cape. Which is why I said that you should stick with those armors since they seem to fit what you want. And that is just it- they are no longer considered "Jedi Robes" if they are armor, otherwise, just like I said before (I'm repeating myself) they are some kind of armored superman costume. I don't have a problem with ZS/JS stuff, I have a problem with these so-called "armored robes", for my above reasons. I also have a problem with all these layers, which I explained my reasons for above, also. ut it seems to me like neither took the time to consider my argument that the robes+armor concept is feasible and in fact has already been done. I guess that is what really irks me. If they had come back and said, "Yeah, I checked that out but I still don't like it" then it would have been end of argument for me. *ahem* Those are MODS. Just that, GAME MODIFICATIONS. They have nothing to do with what would actually make sense and fit in the game. You could make a mod that made guantlets turn you into a storm beast (I've seen one). But does that mean that they would be feasible, and "already done"? No, they wouldn't. Don't start acting like you know what we did and what is going through our minds, and we are just ignoring your "evidence"; it was irrelevant. Mods can do all sorts of things, many of which make no sense and do not fit into Star Wars. So the fact the somone has made a mod for it means nothing, since mods can and have done crazy things which really aren't "realistic" in the SW sense, or are no longer really what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 OK. I'm calm. At least I feel like you're paying somewhat closer attention now. It is unfortunate that my getting ticked off and in turn ticking other thread contributors off is what it took to get here but here we are now. So let me get this straight RobQel-Droma. You believe that once the tunic/shirt is replaced with a light armor vest or suit underneath Jedi Robes then this no longer constitutes Jedi Robes, right? THERE ARE NO ARMORED ROBES, unless you count the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey Armor, which is really light armor with a cape. Which is why I said that you should stick with those armors since they seem to fit what you want. Umm.. you must be speaking to CadmiumRED or someone else on this thread, right? I believe I've already stated that while I like the Zeison Sha/Jal Shey armors they aren't what I really want. They (the armored robes) have nothing to do with what would actually make sense and fit in the game.I wholeheartedly, but respectfully, disagree. I believe that this concept is quite feasible, makes great sense to me and I like it. However I fully understand that you are diametrically opposed to this. So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 If you all are talking D20 Rules wise, Armored Robes that would allow the use of Force Powers are possible... sort of a sci-fi equivelant of Elven Chainmail. So we got the ugly Zeison Sha and Jal Shey model in TSL, if they exist so can other ones as well. They are basically Armored Robes, even though the game gave us an ugly skirted light armor model for them they are supposed to be, at their core, Armored Robes. Hence why they allow the use of Force Powers, but the other basic armors do not. Just my 2 cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 *GAAAGHH* Redhawke, I was sure you were going to go RP agro on this:D What attributes would need to be modified to balance my multi-layer suggestion, to make it all d20ish? @Rob, If I want more protection or simply a different look, It's my choice to wear all that (if I was in SW) and as for it being hot, depending on the materials and equipment contained in the suits it would provide much superior environment control than a jedi robe. So, a combat suit with a jedi robe over it has worse flexibility than Mandalorian armor? The JS and ZS don't fit what I want (or what CRed originally posted, "armor and"), they aren't armor with a robe over it. @Windu, the point isn't always to wear non-restrictive armor (if you're talking about force restriction, you're not always a jedi and your party isn't always jedi) @Cygnus, Another purpose of the armor is to provide a platform for support systems (regeneration), more layers, more upgrade room, movement will be restricted, but this will be compensated for by having more in-armor gadgetry than Q-branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yeah REDJOHNNYMIKE, I would enjoy the support systems that would allow for upgrages and such. I wouldn't even mind the restrictive movement because of the compensation of in-armor goodies. (gimme, gimme, gimme). But, if it's as ugly as the Jal-Shey or Zeison-Sha armor, what T'wilek dancer is gonna want to talk to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I wholeheartedly, but respectfully, disagree. I believe that this concept is quite feasible, makes great sense to me and I like it. However I fully understand that you are diametrically opposed to this. So be it. I realize you like it- but I just don't see that it is feasible. Once you put armor "under" robes, you have force power restrictions, movement restrictions, etc. It becomes more trouble than what it is worth to try and have all these different layers. Combine Jedi Robes, however light, with light armor, and it gets to be pretty bulky, and restricting. So, a combat suit with a jedi robe over it has worse flexibility than Mandalorian armor? The JS and ZS don't fit what I want (or what CRed originally posted, "armor and"), they aren't armor with a robe over it. Try this: get a set of medieval armor, put it on, and wear a bunch of clothes and blankets (robes) over it. Now try to move (or just imagine). Having multiple layers is not a good idea, since it does not make sense when you have those kind of combinations. To have it make more sense, you get all the restrictions I talked about earlier. So let me get this straight RobQel-Droma. You believe that once the tunic/shirt is replaced with a light armor vest or suit underneath Jedi Robes then this no longer constitutes Jedi Robes, right? Yes. Once you have armor all mixed up with the original robes, it is no longer a regular plain Jedi Robe. I never said you wanted the ZS/JS armor, I was just saying that that type of armor was probably the closest you will get to what you want. Ok, so instead of talking about this "layer" idea, which I have already explained my reasons for not liking it above, why not try and get some other ZS/JS-like armors that have a better look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 A voice of reason, yes. I can see Rob's point on the resrictions. As I said before, I tend to stick to Jedi robes. I thought they looked cool and forced me to think defensively when dealing with multiple enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 @Rob, Some knights did wear clothing over their armor, wether to show their personal symbols, distinguish between combatants, etc. And the situation you describe is the most extreme (the equivalent to wearing Revan's Robes over Mandalore's suit) you could easily layer a jedi robe over light armor, light armor (going by the skins and models) is pretty much a bulletproof vest over heavy duty clothes (think police) A jedi robe over that wouldn't add that much restriction. And those restrictions are offset by bonuses unique to each item and your chosen upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Try this: get a set of medieval armor, put it on, and wear a bunch of clothes and blankets (robes) over it. Now try to move (or just imagine). Having multiple layers is not a good idea, since it does not make sense when you have those kind of combinations. To have it make more sense, you get all the restrictions I talked about earlier. Actually your comparison made no sense. Under the plates, they often wear chain mail and under that some sort of light shirt. By the way, those things are actually insanely flexible. Well, not insanely, but a lot more then you think. This is not a bad idea. I think some people focus too much on the possible combination of stats between the armor and the robe, which doesn't have to even exist. It could be nothing more the aesthetic. The other very feasible possibility is two different slots, one for armor, one for cloak. This actually would fulfil many people's demand. You could then have the Jedi Robe without the cloak without creating a new type of armor and have regular armor with a cloak. Rob- How is the layer system less realistic then what we currently have? To be realistic, I'd have to run naked without any kind of armor on Tatooine because it's too hot. At least with layers, I'd actually be able to remove my bigger armor to cope with the heat, but I won't, because it's a game and I can't feel the heat Also, too complicated? I don't think adding one armor slot will make things complicated. Lastly, what do you think crusaders and arabs wore when they fought in the harsh heat of the middle-east? Light silk shirts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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