Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 After reading many peoples posts about the length of the game, number of outcomes, an alternate group of force users and how wisdom could be better put to use, so i thought that an extra group of force users would be good (not the "True Sith" because they would still be similar to the Sith we have already seen) and solve many of the issues that people have. So i've started this thread to discuss a possible philosiphy for this 3rd group. My idea would be a group with a similar philosiphy to Sun Tzu. Where you look at everything as part of a whole and the greatest victory is one acheived without violence. I guess this would make them grey but leaning towards the DS. They would operate in the background and very few people would know of their existance, their goals would be similar to GOTO's in that all they want is stability for the Galaxy, whether is be controled by the Jedi, Sith or neither. What do you guy think? Feel free to post any ideas of your own as well. Edit: Ok, since no-one has any thoughts or ideas on the subject, i'll give you an example. If you have read 'I, Jedi' then you will have heard of the Jensaarai, who were neither jedi or sith. They are denfensivley minded prefering to remain hidden and only strike when the time is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Ok, since no-one has any thoughts or ideas on the subject, i'll give you an example. If you have read 'I, Jedi' then you will have heard of the Jensaarai, who were neither jedi or sith. They are denfensivley minded prefering to remain hidden and only strike when the time is right. Some of us don't stay up that late/get up that early--your time stamps on your posts were sleep/getting kids ready for school time for me. Anyway, are you talking about something like a Force using Genoharaden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Skywalker Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I dont think it would work personally. I think everybody likes being a Sith/Jedi and are familiar with them another class would confuse or put people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 Anyway, are you talking about something like a Force using Genoharaden?[/Quote] Could be a possibility but i was not thinking of them. But now you mention it i do remember someone including them in their fanfic. How would you have them operate and what would their goals be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 How about the Mirror Jedi code? Hope is Death..... Faith is Pain..... Compassion is Suffering..... Love is hate..... Light is a Lie..... I could explain the idea behind this philosophy, if anybody wants me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 How about the Mirror Jedi code? Hope is Death..... Faith is Pain..... Compassion is Suffering..... Love is hate..... Light is a Lie..... I could explain the idea behind this philosophy, if anybody wants me to. Yes, please do. It sounds interesting, but almost sith-like. Contemplatively contradictory. Is it meant to confuse? or *is* there a philosophy? ...or is the philosophy to confuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 There is a philosophy. It's not 'Sith' per se, but it's in a parallel universe where the Jedi follow the Dark Side... you'd have to read the story to understand. It's more to do with protection of yourself, and independance. Ironic considering the Jedi are willing servants to the Dark Empire... Anyway, here's the explanation: Hope is Death Hope makes one weak. Your enemies exploit any weakness they see. Hope gives one preconceptions, false ideals. Your enemies will exploit these ideals, and use them to destroy you. Hope is Death. Faith is Pain Who do you place your faith in? Your family? Your friends? Your masters? They are no stronger than yourself. Should your faith be misplaced, it can only lead to suffering. You can have faith in nobody, not even yourself. Compassion is Suffering Your compassion will only give others beliefs about themselves that are... misleading. One may believe that they are more powerful than they really are. They will suffer the effects of your compassion. Love is Hate Love blinds your actions. One would be willing to do anything to protect the ones they love, or to make them happy, or to ensure you do not lose them. You blindness leads only to the alienation of the ones you love. They will eventaully hate you. Light is a Lie It's quite simple. There is no light in the galaxy. There is only darkness, there is only suffering, there is only hate.... there is only the Empire. That's a basic explanation of the philosophy I wrote in the story (which was never actually included - only the code itself was ever revealed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 Hmm, i think it might be a bit too much like the Sith Code but it could be a bit more neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 @ The Doctor: I think you sound a bit like Kreia. Though they called her a Sith but I think she was neither. She helped yes to provide the Republic with some stability and yes she used the dark side. I think she may have been a perverted version of Jolee Bindo. The last explaination you gave sounds a bit too Sithy like. Maybe it would work like saying that Truth is a Lie after all what is truth, nothing but a certain point of view. What purpose does truth serve if we see everything from our point of view? Truth is nothing more than illusion to create stability and security. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 I like it. Very Obi-wan. I think somewhere between Kreia, Jolee and Obi-wan you have a more rounded and complete philosiphy than either the jedi or the sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 My Mirror Jedi philosophy was modelled after Kriea's teachings, yes. But I will think on the Light is a Lie part... Your idea is intriguing, JediMaster12. I may have to use that in Dark Mirror, if that's alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 @ The Doctor: That's fine by me. I just came up with it while doing the RP thread Ways of the Grey Jedi created by yours truly. I guess I started to see that there is no definite answer to everything. @ Darth Sun_Tzu: I think this third group is a particularly good idea because in a way it reflects those that see more grey than dark or light, frankly both extremes annoy me lately. To tell you the truth I took quite a few things out of each of those characters because they all made sense. Some would say what about morality but then you would have to ask yourself what morality really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Do you think this group would be grey/dark or grey/light? Or do you think there would be a bit of both, some conflict within the group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Conflict yes for it is conflict that strengthens us. Some would serve the light others serve the darkness but it all comes to their point of view and how much they believe in the code that The Doctor came up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I think that that code is too dark for a grey group, even if some of them are slightly on the ds of grey. I was thinking something along the lines of the teachings of Sun Tzu. I'll try to come up with something, here goes: The Universe is whole. Reality depends on perspective. Truth comes from knowing this. Power comes from knowing that you can stike. Victory is gained by knowing when to strike. Or (and this is a direct quote) Resolved to die, one can be killed. Resolved to live, one can be captured. Quick to anger, one can be goaded. Pure and honest, one can be shamed. Loving the people, one can be aggravated. Hmm, i'm going to have to think some more about this. But what do you think of that as a basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 The Universe is whole. Reality depends on perspective. Truth comes from knowing this. Power comes from knowing that you can stike. Victory is gained by knowing when to strike. How about this: The Universe is whole but can be broken. Reality depends on perspective. Knowing this is Truth yet Truth is an illusion. Power comes from knowing you can strike yet power becomes weakness. Victory is gained by knowing when to strike yet victory becomes defeat. Resolved to die, one can be killed. Resolved to live, one can be captured. Quick to anger, one can be goaded. Pure and honest, one can be shamed. Loving the people, one can be aggravated Resolved to die, one can be killed yet still live. Resolved to live, one can be captured yet set free. Quick to anger, one can be goaded and yet be assuaged. Pure and true, one can be shamed yet be honest. Filled with Love, one can hate yet show compassion. Your basis was good. I expanded on it a bit and changed some words around. Maybe it could work for this third group idea you proposed for KOTOR 3. I also think that maybe if you combine both "verses" it could sound really cool. The words may have to be tweaked to flow together better. I am often called a poet and writing verse is a hobby thing.Let me know and maybe I could come up with something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 The changes you made just make it confusing, i say keep it simple. I have also already combined them, like this: Resolved to die, one can be killed. Resolved to live, one can be captured. Quick to anger, one can be goaded. Pure and honest, one can be shamed. Loving the people, one can be aggravated. Hating the people, one can be manipulated. Power comes from knowing that you can strike. Victory is gained by knowing when to strike. The Universe is whole. I have cut some of the lines out that did not fit in with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 So you are in a way reflecting the lesson of Yin and Yang. The universe is filled with opposite and to be a good warrior it must all be brought into balance. Sorry if it was confusing I was being contradictory and tend to speak in metaphors. Loving the people, one can be aggravated. Hating the people, one can be maipulated. This part still bothers me a bit. I was thinking about when Yoda mentioned something about attachment leading to jealousy and thought of this way: Filled with love, one can hate Filled with hate, one can manipulate It's supposed to reflect the inner self right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darca Lar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 the story could be like you come across goto and chase him down or something to his base and along the way find the factory where hk-50 droids are being made and could be opertaed by the sith, then goto gets killed after getting captured and used by the sith and, well you get the idea. Im just throwing out ideas from the top of my head. It might not be that great but if i thought it thru more it might sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 @Sunny, Well if you'd just wait a little while...I've only just got the hang of Alpha channels;) Mean old idea stealer meanie I doubt LA will add this to the "official junk" but something similar will show itself eventually........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 @ Darth Sun_Tzu Quick to anger, one can be goaded. Pure and honest, one can be shamed. I've thought about these two lines some more and I came up with this. It is still giving the same idea but I want to run it by you: Quick to anger, one can be calmed Honest and true, one can fall What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Quick to anger, one can be calmed No, i think that makes it too jedi. Honest and true, one can fall Not bad but I think 'True and Honest, one can be disgraced'. Sounds a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 And the Universe is whole but can be broken. I once held the galaxy by the throat-Kreia What did you think of the other two lines, the ones about love and hate? I was trying to convey an attitude similar to Kreia's but also falling back on Jolee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 How about..... Filled with love, one can be aggravated. Filled with hate, one can be manipulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 If there's a neutral ending I want a silly ending too! The Dali demand to be recognised as a genuine Force-using order! Or some prawns and calamari would do just as well... For your code, how about There is passion, there is peace, There is knowledge, there is power, There is strength, there is harmony, There is victory, there is serenity, There is the Light, there is the Darkness, The Force breaks my chains, The Force makes me free. That seems a bit more...mantra-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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