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A third path


Darth Sun_Tzu

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After reading many peoples posts about the length of the game, number of outcomes, an alternate group of force users and how wisdom could be better put to use, so i thought that an extra group of force users would be good (not the "True Sith" because they would still be similar to the Sith we have already seen) and solve many of the issues that people have.

 

So i've started this thread to discuss a possible philosiphy for this 3rd group.

 

My idea would be a group with a similar philosiphy to Sun Tzu. Where you look at everything as part of a whole and the greatest victory is one acheived without violence. I guess this would make them grey but leaning towards the DS.

 

They would operate in the background and very few people would know of their existance, their goals would be similar to GOTO's in that all they want is stability for the Galaxy, whether is be controled by the Jedi, Sith or neither.

 

What do you guy think? Feel free to post any ideas of your own as well.

 

Edit:

Ok, since no-one has any thoughts or ideas on the subject, i'll give you an example.

 

If you have read 'I, Jedi' then you will have heard of the Jensaarai, who were neither jedi or sith. They are denfensivley minded prefering to remain hidden and only strike when the time is right.

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Ok, since no-one has any thoughts or ideas on the subject, i'll give you an example.

 

If you have read 'I, Jedi' then you will have heard of the Jensaarai, who were neither jedi or sith. They are denfensivley minded prefering to remain hidden and only strike when the time is right.

 

Some of us don't stay up that late/get up that early--your time stamps on your posts were sleep/getting kids ready for school time for me. :)

 

Anyway, are you talking about something like a Force using Genoharaden?

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How about the Mirror Jedi code?

 

Hope is Death.....

Faith is Pain.....

Compassion is Suffering.....

Love is hate.....

Light is a Lie.....

 

I could explain the idea behind this philosophy, if anybody wants me to.

 

Yes, please do. It sounds interesting, but almost sith-like.

Contemplatively contradictory.

 

Is it meant to confuse? or *is* there a philosophy?

...or is the philosophy to confuse?

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There is a philosophy. It's not 'Sith' per se, but it's in a parallel universe where the Jedi follow the Dark Side... you'd have to read the story to understand. It's more to do with protection of yourself, and independance. Ironic considering the Jedi are willing servants to the Dark Empire...

 

Anyway, here's the explanation:

 

Hope is Death

Hope makes one weak. Your enemies exploit any weakness they see. Hope gives one preconceptions, false ideals. Your enemies will exploit these ideals, and use them to destroy you. Hope is Death.

 

Faith is Pain

Who do you place your faith in? Your family? Your friends? Your masters? They are no stronger than yourself. Should your faith be misplaced, it can only lead to suffering. You can have faith in nobody, not even yourself.

 

Compassion is Suffering

Your compassion will only give others beliefs about themselves that are... misleading. One may believe that they are more powerful than they really are. They will suffer the effects of your compassion.

 

Love is Hate

Love blinds your actions. One would be willing to do anything to protect the ones they love, or to make them happy, or to ensure you do not lose them. You blindness leads only to the alienation of the ones you love. They will eventaully hate you.

 

Light is a Lie

It's quite simple. There is no light in the galaxy. There is only darkness, there is only suffering, there is only hate.... there is only the Empire.

 

That's a basic explanation of the philosophy I wrote in the story (which was never actually included - only the code itself was ever revealed).

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@ The Doctor: I think you sound a bit like Kreia. Though they called her a Sith but I think she was neither. She helped yes to provide the Republic with some stability and yes she used the dark side. I think she may have been a perverted version of Jolee Bindo. The last explaination you gave sounds a bit too Sithy like. Maybe it would work like saying that Truth is a Lie after all what is truth, nothing but a certain point of view. What purpose does truth serve if we see everything from our point of view? Truth is nothing more than illusion to create stability and security.

 

What do you think?

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@ The Doctor: That's fine by me. I just came up with it while doing the RP thread Ways of the Grey Jedi created by yours truly. I guess I started to see that there is no definite answer to everything.

 

@ Darth Sun_Tzu: I think this third group is a particularly good idea because in a way it reflects those that see more grey than dark or light, frankly both extremes annoy me lately. To tell you the truth I took quite a few things out of each of those characters because they all made sense. Some would say what about morality but then you would have to ask yourself what morality really is.

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I think that that code is too dark for a grey group, even if some of them are slightly on the ds of grey.

 

I was thinking something along the lines of the teachings of Sun Tzu. I'll try to come up with something, here goes:

 

The Universe is whole.

Reality depends on perspective.

Truth comes from knowing this.

Power comes from knowing that you can stike.

Victory is gained by knowing when to strike.

 

Or (and this is a direct quote)

 

Resolved to die, one can be killed.

Resolved to live, one can be captured.

Quick to anger, one can be goaded.

Pure and honest, one can be shamed.

Loving the people, one can be aggravated.

 

 

 

Hmm, i'm going to have to think some more about this. But what do you think of that as a basis?

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The Universe is whole.

Reality depends on perspective.

Truth comes from knowing this.

Power comes from knowing that you can stike.

Victory is gained by knowing when to strike.

 

How about this:

The Universe is whole but can be broken.

Reality depends on perspective.

Knowing this is Truth yet Truth is an illusion.

Power comes from knowing you can strike yet power becomes weakness.

Victory is gained by knowing when to strike yet victory becomes defeat.

 

Resolved to die, one can be killed.

Resolved to live, one can be captured.

Quick to anger, one can be goaded.

Pure and honest, one can be shamed.

Loving the people, one can be aggravated

 

Resolved to die, one can be killed yet still live.

Resolved to live, one can be captured yet set free.

Quick to anger, one can be goaded and yet be assuaged.

Pure and true, one can be shamed yet be honest.

Filled with Love, one can hate yet show compassion.

 

Your basis was good. I expanded on it a bit and changed some words around. Maybe it could work for this third group idea you proposed for KOTOR 3. I also think that maybe if you combine both "verses" it could sound really cool. The words may have to be tweaked to flow together better. I am often called a poet and writing verse is a hobby thing.Let me know and maybe I could come up with something else.

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The changes you made just make it confusing, i say keep it simple. I have also already combined them, like this:

 

Resolved to die, one can be killed.

Resolved to live, one can be captured.

Quick to anger, one can be goaded.

Pure and honest, one can be shamed.

Loving the people, one can be aggravated.

Hating the people, one can be manipulated.

Power comes from knowing that you can strike.

Victory is gained by knowing when to strike.

The Universe is whole.

 

 

I have cut some of the lines out that did not fit in with the flow.

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So you are in a way reflecting the lesson of Yin and Yang. The universe is filled with opposite and to be a good warrior it must all be brought into balance. Sorry if it was confusing I was being contradictory and tend to speak in metaphors.

 

Loving the people, one can be aggravated.

Hating the people, one can be maipulated.

 

This part still bothers me a bit. I was thinking about when Yoda mentioned something about attachment leading to jealousy and thought of this way:

 

Filled with love, one can hate

Filled with hate, one can manipulate

 

It's supposed to reflect the inner self right?

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the story could be like you come across goto and chase him down or something to his base and along the way find the factory where hk-50 droids are being made and could be opertaed by the sith, then goto gets killed after getting captured and used by the sith and, well you get the idea. Im just throwing out ideas from the top of my head. It might not be that great but if i thought it thru more it might sound better.

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@ Darth Sun_Tzu

Quick to anger, one can be goaded.

Pure and honest, one can be shamed.

 

I've thought about these two lines some more and I came up with this. It is still giving the same idea but I want to run it by you:

 

Quick to anger, one can be calmed

Honest and true, one can fall

 

What do you think?

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If there's a neutral ending I want a silly ending too! The Dali demand to be recognised as a genuine Force-using order! Or some prawns and calamari would do just as well...

 

For your code, how about

 

There is passion, there is peace,

There is knowledge, there is power,

There is strength, there is harmony,

There is victory, there is serenity,

There is the Light, there is the Darkness,

The Force breaks my chains,

The Force makes me free.

That seems a bit more...mantra-ish.

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