Katarn07 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Out cruising around the net, I stumbled across some Wiki articles pertaining to the DF/JK series characters. The Star Wars Databank for being the official source of truth and what not sucks the big one, and to my dissappointment Wiki didn't prove much better. Anywho, back to point. At the very end of the article it says: Jan's right hand is mechanical, reminiscent of both Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker. I've noticed the gloved hand, but never took it as being mechanical. But upon closer examination, it very well may be. Check out her right hand: What's the deal with that? I thought I knew everything there is to know about these characters. It seems I'm slipping.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Well, it's not that uncommon for a Star Wars character to have a mechanical hand. I wonder how she lost her real hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 It got bitten off by a rabid nerf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 *yawn* You youngsters obviously havent read William C Deitz's books about the Dark Forces series, or listened to the accompanying audio dramatistaions.... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 I read books 1 and 3 ages ago. Book 2, believe it or not, is no where to be found in any library in my system. So, care to ellaborate on that oh wise one? The folks from Wiki didn't seem to care to do so. Anywho, I didn't care much for that series of books. Book 1 was great and true to the events of the game. Book 3 was just weird. I know basing a book off a video game is hard, but they changed so much of what was established in the games. Yun's final words kicked ass though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 I read books 1 and 3 ages ago. Book 2, believe it or not, is no where to be found in any library in my system. So, care to ellaborate on that oh wise one? The folks from Wiki didn't seem to care to do so. Anywho, I didn't care much for that series of books. Book 1 was great and true to the events of the game. Book 3 was just weird. I know basing a book off a video game is hard, but they changed so much of what was established in the games. Yun's final words kicked ass though Once again, Wiki is written by FANBOYS & MONKEYS(like that dude who wrote the entry for Lucasforums) It should not be confidently quoted as a valid source. I havent read those books in a very long time. I'd need to check with TFN staff to see if theyre geeky enough to remember The other possible source is RPG sourcebook material, but I dont have access to any of that to check. Maybe our mighty admin Kurgan knows, he's the king of all that is JK mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 So you're saying the books definately state it's a mechanical hand and you just don't remember the cause, or you were just assuming it's in the books and guessed I didn't read them yet? I'm looking into it because it annoys me I never heard of this. And as for Wiki, I understand who it's written by, but if fricken' SW Databank actually had some up to date content in it, I wouldn't even probably bothered googling for that kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineCult Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 It's mechanical, I only recently noticed myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Can someone who has JK take a screenie from a custcene confirming that the HAND/ARM is mechanical... I've contacted friends with the original books, and with the WEG sourcebooks, none of them mention this. Not even the WOTC RPG Stats mention anything. In fact, the only reference quoted so far .... is ****** Wiki. the only other possibility left is the audio dramatisations, but I'll be receiving confirmation soon. In the interim, a good screenie of an actual mechanical hand/arm(NOT A GLOVE) would be nice mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hrm, I seem to recall one scene where the glove may come off and that being the cutscene between levels 2 and 3 of JK when Kyle's on the medbed. It's too late and I don't feel like installing it atm to see that. I did find some WotC bio stuff on her and it mentions nothing of the sort, nor does it mention it in her RPG stats. It's a lengthier article and still mentions nothing of the sort. It did mention several incidents I'm unfamiliar with in it that may or may not have been mentioned in other EU. This was confused me the most: Adventure Seed: Jedi Search In the aftermath of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Kyle Katarn went searching for clues about the Sith. He has yet to return. In response, Jan Ors and Jedi Master Mara Jade Skywalker have put together a crack team of heroes consisting of Alpha Blue agents and Jedi Knights to find Kyle. Eventually heading out into the region called the Cloak of the Sith, the heroes find Kyle held captive by the cyborg Jedi Daye Azur-Jamin, who has been twisted to the Dark Side by an evil Force-user. The heroes must free Kyle and attempt to turn Azur-Jamin back to the light. Whether they succeed or are instead forced to kill him, the cyborg reveals information that is truly shocking: There is a dangerous Force-strong Yuuzhan Vong loose in the galaxy, and judging from her powers, it is clear that she has a master . . . That never happened, did it? I never finished the NJO. I don't hate it, but I certainly didn't love it enough to ever get through them all. If that is the case, why the **** is Kyle out looking for clues about the Sith again?! Didn't he learn his lesson the last time in MotS? EDIT - Found a bit more in Kyle's bio on the WotC site. While in Imperial Remnant space, Kyle heard a rumor that the Sith had possibly survived all these years after Endor. Due to his personal experience with mysterious Sith magic on Drommund Kaas, Kyle took it upon himself to investigate after the invasion, following clues from Ord Sedra in the Clacis Sector to Yaga Minor, and finally striking out into the region known as the Cloak of the Sith. There's been no word from Kyle for some time, and it's feared that he's succumbed to the same fate as the Jedi Daye Azur-Jamin, who inexplicably disappeared during the Yuuzhan Vong War. Astro Edit - Ive gotten rid of that url for "It" - what the heck was that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 OK. Here's the deal. Ive hassled people with JK and the related books ets, contacted staff at other EU boards. There is no OFFICIAL source that states tha Jan has a mechanical hand or not. It is not mentioned in *any* official database entries or officially published character guides. The "story" of Jan's hand was not described in any game or story. It *may* have been mentioned in the audio versions, though this is unlikely(nb. this is very hard to check as they are near impossible to find nowdays) Wiki's mentioning of Jan's mechanical hand, whilst not incorrect, is based on observation from the games. She is wearing it in every single cutscene in JKI. Even in the medbay scene where she isnt wearing her other gear, she still has the glove. It is therefore a reasonable assumption to conclude one of two things: *Jan has a robotic hand OR *Jan's own had may still be intact and she has a glove(ie. acting as a prosthesis) which keeps its function intact. as far Im concerned, case closed It's one of those little grey areas that EU has. Considering Jan is a game character more than a book/comic character, its not hugely surprising thats such details are missed. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 *moved to EU boards* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa_0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Actually in one of the cutscenes, I think right before Kyle goes into the tower to meet 8T-88 she is fixing her hand. I also believe that I heard that it was cut off by a sith. Im not forsure if thats right or not, but I do kinda remember hearing something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 lol... coupes - I was about to move it - but thought the topic was going to fizz out @Zappa... no that is not correct. Ive just watched every single cutscene from JK1, lifted off my JK1 game discs and run using RAD video tools(as the are in SMK format) Jan has the glove on in every single scene, even the one in teh medbay where she doesnt have her other field gear with her. In addition, the only sith around at that time(as she evidently has the glove in DF1) is Vader and Sidious. There is no mention of any such encounter in any canion source. The two conclusions stated above are the closest to an answer you'll get. Someone at TFN did point out that in one of the illustrations for the the Deitz novels, that she isnt wearing one, but that this was an error on the part of the illustrator(one among several that appear in these books). mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Once again, Wiki is written by FANBOYS & MONKEYS(like that dude who wrote the entry for Lucasforums) It should not be confidently quoted as a valid source. I havent read those books in a very long time. I'd need to check with TFN staff to see if theyre geeky enough to remember The other possible source is RPG sourcebook material, but I dont have access to any of that to check. Maybe our mighty admin Kurgan knows, he's the king of all that is JK mtfbwya Honestly, I always just assumed it was some kind of tech gear, like some tools built into a glove for easy access, since she's a pilot and mechanic. In JK1 the game there's no indication that she has a cyborg hand, but I'd have to watch all the cutscenes again to check there (just for my own satisfaction since it was already done above). In JK2 she wears the glove, yes. So who knows. I read the novels (the audio books are just dramatizations of the books themselves, not expansions in this case anyway), except for Soldier for the Empire, but maybe I missed somethings. I certainly didn't remember that Qu Rahn's saber in JK1 (before it gets taken away) was supposed to be Yoda's, for exampe. The Dark Forces novels are VERY short, and mirror events from the cutscenes so closely (but the in-between details are very different than what you experience in game, or it's "off camera" stuff). I'm sure Justin Chin would know (head guy on the JK1 team and was also in charge of the Dark Forces project which had the same team pretty much). I have the paperback strategy/guidebook to JK1 (sadly not with me in town though but I *think* it was the "Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight Official Strategy Guide" by Rick Barba & Prima from 1997) which had all the behind-the-scenes stuff for the game and info from the developers. So if it's in any public source it's probably going to be found there. I'm surprised the dreaded WOTC RPG hasn't written or re-written this detail yet, as they've pretty much screwed with every other detail of the Dark Forces/JK series thus far it seems... which always bugs me when people cite it as a "canon authority" because it's just another danged GAME, so it's like saying Kyle Katarn's lightsaber has been blue "all along" just because it's blue in Jedi Outcast. You really need a third canon source to override two games that conflict (and the databank doesn't count). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa_0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Didnt Boc do something to her near the end on DF2? I seem to remember something like that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If he did it couldn't have been to cut off her hand, since she wouldn't have had time to construct one. IIRC she has the "big glove" on in the first cutscene with her (so that would be the second or third cutscene in game "I'd be a content old man!"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineCult Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I love those live action cutscenes. It's a shame they don't still do them, they would have been great in Jedi Outcast and Academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malak02 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I love those live action cutscenes. It's a shame they don't still do them, they would have been great in Jedi Outcast and Academy. I think that the reason that they don't do them anymore is because they thnk that it will tie into the game better, that there may be a smoother cutscene to game transition...I'm unsure though, they may have just gotten lazy...or anything else, there could be a multitude of reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Heck, even ingame images appear to have had that gloved hand. It appears she's got a glove and I can sort of see it in my mind's eye. Too small to really tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 The real reason is such cutscenes cost a fortune to make. The JK1 cutscenes apparently had the budget of a small motion picture. And for the reward you get with them (that is, most players watch them once and that's it) it isn't worth the high cost. If you just have to hire voice actors (or just get the programmers to do it if you're really strapped for cash) it saves a lot of time and money. Emperor: Battle for Dune had live action+CG cutscenes and it came out in 2001 (to reasonable success too I thought), but I haven't really seen a game since then that had them, and the "multi-media game" based on such things has pretty mucy died out (although I believe MYST III: Exile had them, but again that's a 2000/2001 game IIRC). "Game engine generated cutscenes" (or whatever you want to call using the same models and animations to act out cutscenes in a game) save time, and with the improvement in graphics over the years, they don't look as different from the regular gameplay as they did in the past. In a game like JK1 the in-game models were boxy and lacked detail compared to live actors, but the difference isn't so great in a modern game coming out today (though they still don't look quite real or human). But anyway, the real reason is monetary. LucasArts has tried to weather the storm of decreasing revenues in the PC games market in various ways, and one of those is in cost-saving measures like not making mini-movies in their cutscenes anymore. The other, unfortunately, is focusing their attention on console games that they can crank out quickly and tie into other products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Remember the FMV sequences in Rebel Assault 2? I don't remember if they made the game somewhat better or were flat out stupid. I was 10 or 11 at the time of watching them and probably not the best to be the judge of that. I rather enjoyed the FMV of JK but yes, it does take you out of the gaming experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Yeah but RA2 was made before JK1, and it was so largely multimedia driven anyway (most of the gameplay was based on CG rendered or FMV that had animated targets added to it for you to shoot) that it was kind of essential. It too had a mix of CG and live action for the cutscenes, much like the backgrounds. In that respect it was more like Area51 (it was a rail shooter that also used a lot of rendered and digitized graphics rather than polygonal models). I remember thinking how awesome they looked back when they came out, but now I've been so spoiled watching the Star Wars movies on DVD that they look pretty cruddy. I wish they would re-release RA and RA2 with the higher quality sprites (24-bit) and video they had available at the time (but they were forced to reduce to 8-bit quality for the sake of home computers at that time. Well anyway as far as Jan's hand is concerned, interesting. Looking closely at the screenshots (I couldn't see them before) I see that she's had it throughout the series. Since this takes place over several years, it couldn't just have been a temporary thing (like repairing an injury). So is it a tool or a bulky version of the artificial hand that Luke and Anakin has? You'd think working for the New Republic they could afford to give her a better one if it is. I mean, the Rebellion to afford to give Luke one that looked "just like the real thing" until damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I prefer live action sequences to engine cut scenes myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 heh... why the heck would gaming devs even bother with FMV.... as Kurgz mentioned, you need to hire crew, get film and lighting equipment(which is freakin expensive) cast actors, wardrobe, makeup, a director, a sound guy, a director of photography etc etc... CGI cutscenes can be pretty realistic nowdays if devs want them to be - look at the Final Fantasy Series for example. FMV is over, theyre a relic of the 90s. Kurgz - I assure you - Jan wears the glove in every scene in JK1, even when she doesnt have her field gear on(in medbay scene)... Yes she does get captured by the Dark jedi - but by this time her hand is already gloved (it was right from the very first scene) lolz...TFNers didnt really have much of a clue either Linkage It seems Astro has grown more powerful than his old masters mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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