Repulser Lift Jammers and Shutter Shields

[Slocket]

Repulser Lift Jammers and Shutter Shields were in the demo...are they in the final game? I do not see them.

 

Should they be put back in?

[popcorn2008]

A lot has been removed from the game. In the text files, I have found evidence of many other removals some not even in the demo:

 

> Maintenance

> "Hyperspace Accidents"

> Jan Dodonna Hero Unit

> Carlist Rieeken Hero Unit

> High Inquisitor Tremayne Hero Unit

> Lieutenant Tanbris Hero Unit

> Prince Xizor Hero Unit

> Tani Ab'yla Hero Unit

> Alliance Diplomat Hero Unit (Evidence there once was diplomacy?)

> HRB Platoon

> Force Alignment Bonus

> Force Alignment Penalty

> Bespin Cloud Car (Evidence Bespin had a land map?)

> Dianoga (I believe this was a squad in shadows of the empire?)

> Financial Crisis

> Revolt! (Planet Event)

> Technological Breakthrough! (Planet Event)

> Wildlife: (There was going to be a wildlife section on the battle immenent screen)

> Neutralize Hero attempt thwarted! Your planet's security forces have apprehended an enemy hero. (Heroes could be captured?)

> Kamino (Hmmm....)

> Rakata (Hmmmmmm....)

> Kamino Planet Information below:

*Production Cost Reduction: Infantry

*Kamino is a stormy world in a system of thirteen planets circling an aging star that straggles south of the Rishi Maze. Climatic changes have long since submerged the planet's continents beneath a global ocean. Immense storms lash the surface, with powerful lightning bursts visible from orbit. Beneath this tempest, few features mark its surface save for massive stilt-mounted cities wherein reside the planet's natural inhabitants, the Kaminoans. Though the Kaminoans turned to genetic sciences to counteract the hardships of the planet's environmental chaos, they are not self-sufficient. They trade their advanced cloning knowledge in exchange for vital raw materials.

*Kaminoan

*Cost of training for infantry is reduced due to Kaminoan cloning facilities.

*Ocean

*Rain

*Aiwhas, Rollerfish, Sea Eel

> There were other planets there, but none as intereasting as Kamino...

> Economic sabotage attempt failed! Your hero has been detected by local planetary security forces.

> Economic sabotage attempt thwarted! Your planet's security forces have apprehended an enemy hero.

> Mara Jade has been ordered to make the Rebellion pay, and pay big, but the Rebellion must not discover who was responsible.

> Han Solo and Chewbacca must deliver contraband cargo through an Imperial blockade without being discovered or Jabba the Hutt will be displeased.

> The tractor beam is preventing us from moving! (Tractor beams could actually stop ships)

> Bounty Hunter Deployed for Capture (Capture?)

> Bounty Hunter Deployed for Economic Sabotage (hmmm...)

> There is evidence Luke could fight on land, though not good.

>I felt a great disturbance in the force…as if millions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. (Obi could detect Death Star, though now there is a count down)

> Refueling Pump

> Rebel Mineral Processor

> Alliance Diplomatic Office

> Total Maintenance

> Tutorial Mission 7 Information:

*This is an example of a story arc mission. Normally this text would be read to you by one of the heroes (like General Dodonna here), and you would receive background information about the task you need to complete. To complete this mission, you need to do what the task line below tells you.

*Congratulations, you have completed the story arc. Normally the hero would tell you what you have accomplished, and either continue with a new task or give you a reward.

> X-wing Mk II Squadron

 

Now I dont know any more than you do, but this is all from the text files, so at once these features were in the game. Intereasting, no?

[Slocket]

It looked like they were going to do more of a Rebellion II style game...then dumbed it down for the mass audience RTS for a quick buck.

 

They could have made a number 10 hit game, but went the route of quick profit and average quality.

[gswift]

It looked like they were going to do more of a Rebellion II style game...then dumbed it down for the mass audience RTS for a quick buck.

 

They could have made a number 10 hit game, but went the route of quick profit and average quality.

 

Yeah, I read a recent post by Darth_Torpid in the modding section that said there's an energy system for space combat. Each ship has a limited energy suply that is consumed when hardpoints and shield are used or recharged. That system is still in the game, but the values have been turned up really high, so it's basically disabled. (the ion cannon makes a big enough dent to show an effect) He said it was taken out because (paraphrased) "it was too complicated and would confuse the average user". Too bad they went that route. Mod's are alright, but I don't like having to mess with installing and uninstalling mods for multiplayer.

[mikemil828]

If you want to play rebellion play rebellion and leave. One of the reasons why Rebellion failed is that it tried to do too much to the point it became tedious. Looking at what Petroglyph removed, they learned that lesson and focused on the things that people would truely like, battles with strategy, not micromanagement with half assed attempts to expand gameplay beyond its means. If you want Diplomacy, play Civilization IV. In the Original Trilogy the best diplomat was a fully charged blaster, and Petroglyph realized this.

 

I'm not sure about you guys but I will not shed any tears over the fact I can't fight on Kamino

[gswift]

If you want to play rebellion play rebellion and leave. One of the reasons why Rebellion failed is that it tried to do too much to the point it became tedious. Looking at what Petroglyph removed, they learned that lesson and focused on the things that people would truely like, battles with strategy, not micromanagement with half assed attempts to expand gameplay beyond its means. If you want Diplomacy, play Civilization IV. In the Original Trilogy the best diplomat was a fully charged blaster, and Petroglyph realized this.

 

I'm not sure about you guys but I will not shed any tears over the fact I can't fight on Kamino

 

I agree with you for the most part. The title of the game IS "Empire at War", not "Empire at World Building". I just think it may have been taken a little too far in some aspects of the tactical battles. It's still a blast to play, so maybe they were right.

[shadowsfm]

i thought the Dianoga was the trash compacter/sewer monster

[mikemil828]

I agree with you for the most part. The title of the game IS "Empire at War", not "Empire at World Building". I just think it may have been taken a little too far in some aspects of the tactical battles. It's still a blast to play, so maybe they were right.

 

Say for example....artillery? You would think since when did artillery truely play a role in Star Wars beyond taking down a couple Trade Federation ships? Petroglyph added artillery to give more depth to the land battles however it ends up fustrating those who lack the ability to take them down.

 

Moaning about how Petroglyph should have added more while complaining about the stuff they did add, typical....

[Slocket]

I am not saying to make it as complicated as Rebellion, but they could have added more strategy depth to the game with maintenance, hero missions, and diplomacy.

 

Anyone beyond a grade school level could have understood that system.

 

Just because I would have liked the game more complicated is not bemoaned. I think a little better than a grade schooler. I believe we have enough RTS clones flooding the market already. Stupid arcadish RTS.

 

If this game did not have a resemblance of the Galaxy Strategy Map and the Star Wars theme taken from Rebellion, it would be a score 6 in my book.

 

You can see it was going to have more hero missions, diplomatic issues, everything that makes a real SW experience.

 

I am trying to put back in all the stuff that was removed. More is always better in my book. You can always remove the maintenance, repair, diplomacy, and hero missions if you wish and have another dumb down clone RTS to play with.

 

So please, do not patronize me about features I wish that were included. It is not polite to attack ones opinion. Maybe you prefer the little kid arcade games?

[mikemil828]

I am not saying to make it as complicated as Rebellion, but they could have added more strategy depth to the game with maintenance, hero missions, and diplomacy.

 

Perhaps you don't quite get the political situation of the Original Trilogy, the Empire would accept nothing less than the Rebellion's total annilhation, and the Rebellion would accept nothing less than the Empire's total annilhation, the era of diplomacy is over folks.

 

Maintenence, yep, being ultimate galactic repairman SURE sounds fun now doesn't it?

 

Anyone beyond a grade school level could hace understood that system.

 

Guess how old many fans of Star Wars are? Face it, Star Wars is just too mainstream for a serious hardcore RTS for it to be viable.

 

Just because I would have liked the game more complicated is not to be bemoaned. I think a little better than a grade schooler. I believe we have enough RTS clones flooding the market already. Stupid arcadish RTS.

 

You honesty think that Empire at War is a RTS clone? Play more RTS's before you make that statement again please, you obviously know little about RTS. Do you honestly think that Starcraft and Warcraft would have been as great as they are if they had diplomacy and maintainence? People expect too much out their RTS's now a days. Back in my day having only 2 playable races was perfectly fine, now there has to be at least 4 playable races or it's too simple and a rush job.

 

You can see it was going to have more hero missions, dimplomatic issues, everything that makes a real SW experience.

 

Yup, I went to see the Original Star Wars just to watch people negotiate, uh huh *shakes head* The only diplomacy in ANH was Tarkin threatening Leia with the destruction of her home planet of Alderann in exchange for the location of the Rebel Hidden Base, and when she named a planet, he blew Alderann up anyway. If this doesn't show the ridiculousness of Diplomacy in a Original Trilogy era game, nothing does.

 

More is always better in my book.

 

More didn't save your beloved Rebellion from mediocry, who could say that if they added everything you wanted in EaW that it would be better? People already bitch about the Tie Mauler and the Rebel Arty, obviously those additions didn't make the game better for all now did it? Who is to say that Diplomacy would have made it better? Obviously Petroglyph didn't think so, that's why they didn't add it.

 

It is not polite to attack ones opinion. Myabe you prefer the little kid arcade games?

 

Attacking someone for not being polite in one sentence. Being rather impolite himself in the next. Hypocrisy in action folks.

[popcorn2008]

Okay... Okay.... calm down now people. Keep it constructive. Petro did what they thought best in marketing to the mainstream. They decided to market to fans such as you MikeMil and gswift, who just want action and not all the micromanagment to go with it. Which is okay! But in the process many of us hardcore fans, such as myself and slocket, have been disapointed because it is lacking micromanagment which is what us hardcore fans prefer. Rebellion is a micro managment game deluxe, and for some it is easy to master, while others it is too tendious. I do enjoy going back to play Rebellion, but it would be nice to have a modern version. Now dont get me wrong! I dont want a remake, but I think petro should have balanced to the middle crowd. While they could have taken away maintenance and such, I wouldnt mind that, I think they could have implmented diplomacy. As long as they made it simple, it would be okay. As it stands, Empire at War is really marketed and made for the casual RTS fan. It is pure action and not much micro managment, which is what (from what I see in slockets posts) me and slocket enjoy.

 

Edit: Now, Mike I see you saying that there was no diplomacy in Star Wars. While the movies may not show it, it was there. What do you think a Rebellion is? They must use diplomacy to convince systems to join their cause. So according to your argument, since this game takes place really in episode IV there shouldnt be any land battles. I didnt see any in episode IV. Speaking of that, Ion Cannons? They didnt exist. Hypervelocity cannon? No where to be seen. (Please note I do realize they did but for sake of argument they didnt. Before I get "Wait! THAT DID EXIST!!! Flames)

[Dirk Pitt]

ion cannons existed....

[popcorn2008]

ion cannons existed....

*cough*

(Please note I do realize they did but for sake of argument they didnt. Before I get "Wait! THAT DID EXIST!!! Flames)

 

I would have won a million, because I saw that comming Well according to Mikes argument, he didnt see diplomacy in Ep. 4, and I didnt see Ion Cannons either. Those were in episode 5. Since were being technical.

[Dirk Pitt]

whoops, mabe i should read a whole post before deeming the rest useless..

[mikemil828]

*sigh*

 

Empire Diplomacy: Give us what we want or we'll flatten your planet

Rebel Diplomacy: Give us what we want or you're screwed

 

Do you honestly think that planets would truly cooperate with the rebellion unless the alternative was much much worse?

 

Do you honestly think Mr. “I’m not in it for your rebellion” Han Solo would help the rebels unless he got into a jam and needed the rebels help?

 

True diplomacy is just an illusion in the Original Trilogy, both sides play to the fears of those they are trying to get something out of, the rebels use the fear of Imperial reprisals to pressure planets into helping them and the Empire uses its might to bully planets into helping them

 

That’s why diplomacy is dumb for an Original Trilogy game, because that is not the way either side gets things done.

 

Apparently you didn’t like my singular Episode 4 example, enough so to put words in my mouth, fine, I will present how ‘diplomacy’ is done in 5 and 6 as well

 

Episode 5: Vader disarms Luke, then presents his terms for Luke’s surrender: 'Join me or die', I never knew that Vader was such a statesman!

 

Vader bullies Lando into betraying his pal so that Luke is forced to come to Vader, then reneges on his deal to let Leia and the rest go free. Obviously Vader is from the Tarkin school of diplomacy

 

Episode 6: The Empire doesn’t ask the Ewoks if they could build their moon sized super weapon and the resulting supporting facilities on and above their moon. The Rebellion obviously didn’t tell the Ewoks the ramifications of helping them destroy a moon sized super weapon a couple hundred miles above their moon (certain extinction as the Death Star's remains fall into Endor’s atmosphere, the rebels would be long gone by this time of course). A perfect example of how both sides do 'diplomacy' with a primitive race.

[stingerhs]

^^^^

i think the whole point with diplomacy had a lot to do with political alignments. looking through the game files, there is evidence that political alignment of planets was originally intended to be in use for the game. thus, you have to look at it from that particular standpoint.

 

the point of diplomacy, then, is to coearce a planet (or system) into supporting your particular political alignment either whenever they are neutral, need reaffirmation of their already pledged support, or whenever they are currently allied against you. the idea then would be to get the planet to overthrow the first goverment which would give you ready access to the indigenous population when and if you invaded the planet.

 

since i have played games where diplomacy was emphasized, this makes perfect sense. does it belong in Star Wars?? i honestly don't see why it shouldn't. just because you didn't see it in the movies doesn't mean you can't use a bit of imagination.

[mikemil828]

^^^^

i think the whole point with diplomacy had a lot to do with political alignments. looking through the game files, there is evidence that political alignment of planets was originally intended to be in use for the game. thus, you have to look at it from that particular standpoint.

 

the point of diplomacy, then, is to coearce a planet (or system) into supporting your particular political alignment either whenever they are neutral, need reaffirmation of their already pledged support, or whenever they are currently allied against you. the idea then would be to get the planet to overthrow the first goverment which would give you ready access to the indigenous population when and if you invaded the planet.

 

since i have played games where diplomacy was emphasized, this makes perfect sense. does it belong in Star Wars?? i honestly don't see why it shouldn't. just because you didn't see it in the movies doesn't mean you can't use a bit of imagination.

 

Well excuuuuuuusse me for being realistic.

 

Alright I'll take you on with your day dream that both groups would actually bargin with neutral planets, Bespin alone can force The Emperor or Mon Mothma to eat from dog bowls in various stages of undress so that they could get some trade deal off of them. However in order for this to happen some substantial changes to the current gameplay would be needed, right now in order to get all the resources of a neutral planet all you need to do is land a ground force on the planet, local fetishes be damned! In order to put in the option of diplomacy the ability to do this must be gone.

 

So essentially you want the rest of us to suffer so that you can do your diplomacy. How selfish. Since the proportion of people who want to be a lapdog is most likely considerably less than those who just want to beat the enemy, it's unlikely Petroglyph would make such an effort even if it was a seperate mode, the efforts are better spent on fixing the real and imagined bugs people have been complaining about.

[Thrawn]

The entire foundation of the Rebel Alliance was built on the basis of Diplomacy, hence why treaties and political agreements between the founding three brought about its creation to begin with.

 

Go through books and comics and the like, there's plenty of diplomacy. Even the Empire used diplomacy in games such as TIE Fighter to brign about an end to the one civil war in the early campaign.

 

For much of its existence the rebels never had the military might to conquer a planet through military means. Hence, diplomacy was their main route. Now if you're looking at diplomacy strictly between characters, there isn't going to be much because they're duking it out for the action of the viewers while all of that "boring" diplomacy is going on behind the scenes.

[sprjay]

I think diplomacy should have been left in the game for it would have added a little more depth to the game and opened more strategies to the player.It would have been nice to have to work to have the population fight for you or against you when you invaded a particular world.Instead of having predesignated allignments.Also it doesn't make sense for the Rebel's to have to invade every planet they control.They are supposed to be the good guys after all,to be about freedom and such not subjugation like the Empire.

 

I think they should have left in the ability to capture and imprison hero's.I think it would have been fun to send people on infiltration missions and resue missions to capture or free a hero.For we all know certain heroes are way overpowered and it would be a great strategy for 1 side to take a hero out longer than just defeating them and 5 minutes later walla they reappear available for use.Whats the point in Vader and Obi to duel if it can happen multiple times in 1 campaign with no consequence for the loser.

Overall I love the game but I don't want it to become boring over time like some games do.I think maybe they should have left these options in or readd them in a patch or expansion to give more longevity to an already good game.

[mikemil828]

The entire foundation of the Rebel Alliance was built on the basis of Diplomacy, hence why treaties and political agreements between the founding three brought about its creation to begin with.

 

The founding of the Alliance was just after the clone wars, during the so called 'more civilized age' where diplomacy could actually be considered an option, apparently enough has happened after that time that the Rebel now simply invade who ever they want to deal with

 

And why would only the Alliance have to deal with diplomacy? Think of the ramifications for a multiplayer game, the empire would have conquered 3/4th of the map before the Alliance could cojole a barracks out of their first planet. This forum would be flooded with moans about how the Rebels are nerfed in this way and that they should be able to take over planets like the empire, like how it is now. Petroglyph is simply heading off a major headache that you would have to deal with before it happened.

 

 

Even the Empire used diplomacy in games such as TIE Fighter to brign about an end to the one civil war in the early campaign.

 

Alas that is true, Brave Imperial Fighters had to go off like lap dogs to the rescue whenever the Ripoblus or Dimoks decided to try something, eventually they got so cocky that they joined forces to attack the Empire, apparently the incident so agitated the Emperor and Vader that Vader killed the guy in command for not taking a more direct approach (Invading both systems) under the guise that the commander turned traitor.....

 

That's how I saw it anyway, needless to say after that you didn't bother too much with diplomacy after that.

 

Ah, if there is anything that I would fault LucasArts for is that they still haven't made a modern TIE Fighter game.

[Slocket]

Ah, if there is anything that I would fault LucasArts for is that they still haven't made a modern TIE Fighter game.

 

Because it would be "too complicated" for the mass audience to grasp. LOL

 

As was said above, they removed the energy management from the EAW battles for the same reason.

[mikemil828]

Because it would be "too complicated" for the mass audience to grasp. LOL

 

As was said above, they removed the energy management from the EAW battles for the same reason.

 

Sure is was slightly technical, but Falcon 4.0 it wasn't. It obviously was more accepted than your beloved Rebellion because of that

[Grey_Ghost]

Repulser Lift Jammers and Shutter Shields were in the demo...are they in the final game? I do not see them.

I hope they left the Art in for them, and that their abilities are still possible.

[arkodeon]

 

Episode 6: The Empire doesn’t ask the Ewoks if they could build their moon sized super weapon and the resulting supporting facilities on and above their moon. The Rebellion obviously didn’t tell the Ewoks the ramifications of helping them destroy a moon sized super weapon a couple hundred miles above their moon (certain extinction as the Death Star's remains fall into Endor’s atmosphere, the rebels would be long gone by this time of course). A perfect example of how both sides do 'diplomacy' with a primitive race.

 

I have heard that arguement before, but no where in the Star Wars Canon does this happen. Infact, if this were the case, there would have been no celebrating on Endor, as the pieces would have fallen into Endor already. Gravitational pull is too big for the pieces to just...hang there. (Remember, it's not only the gravitational pull of a moon, but a planet as well.)

 

Also, in Tales 21 or 22, I can't remember, they had a story called Marooned. The soldiers were on Ewok some time after the Death Star explosion, and all though there is debris on the planet, nothing is extinct.

 

____________________________

 

Kamino is still in EaW, you can activate it by typing its name into any Singleplayer campaign in the CAMPAIGN_SINGLEPLAYER XML file.

[Orao]

The founding of the Alliance was just after the clone wars, during the so called 'more civilized age' where diplomacy could actually be considered an option, apparently enough has happened after that time that the Rebel now simply invade who ever they want to deal with[/Quote]

 

I'm reading you since the very begining of this thread and there is only one thing I want to tell you. You have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

Diplomacy you wanted well you have it in episode 5. Do you rember of certain Bespin and Lando who made an agreement with the Empire ?

 

No, you don't don't you ?

 

Now let me recall you what were the terms.

 

Vader gets Luke and in exchange the Empire will close the eyes on Tibana gas exploitation which was set up by Lando.

 

Other thing. We are at the very begining of the episode 4 even before. The senate is still there. No matter how the Empire is powerful there is noway that it can have enough units to allow them to control each planet in the Galaxy. For that puprose they need either

1. Diplomacy and therfor the senators plus diplomatic corps

 

2. Death Star which will be the Damocles's Sword pending over every star system. Turn against the Empire and the planet will be destroyed.

 

Now with the maintaince cost and/or pop cap limit those things are pretty well stimulated.

 

Now plz with all due respect shut your mouth and stop moaniong against Slocket.

Contrary to you some ppl like to use their minds here and enjoy more depth in the game. Petro could have gave us options which will turn the game into the simulation game or into this thing we have at the moment.