Renown Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 You get the picture. In the movies, he was in a Tie advanced prototype, ONCE. Which he didn't do much in I might add. For the rest of the movies, including the first, he was always featured on the bridge of a (or in a) star destroyer or super star destroyer. He should be placed, like Tarkin, and a Fleet Commander, in a ship. He should give accuracy bonus (because otherwise he kills the person who fails him), and such things. Get him out of that ridiculous tie, its an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 His best skills are best put to fighting. He and his wingmen are the anti Red Squadron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhedd-5 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 The original post is truly spoken like someone too young to have seen Star Wars in the first run. If you had, you'd realize that Vader's fighter is as much an icon as he is. When you're seven years old and you see that thing screaming down the trench, you just KNOW Luke's going to bite it. Sure, Vader's a multi-talented guy, and he's equally at home on the bridge of a Star Destroyer, but still... I can't really put into words how much your opinion saddens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenaMarieD Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I have to agree, i was annoyed Vader wasnt Fleet Commanding. Albeit with a Special Ability to Disembark from his ship into his TIE Ad. I hope someone adds that in, its totally annoying for him to be ALL THE TIME in a fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augrunt Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 its not a tie fighter, hes in a tie advanced... 1 of the most endurable ties. i think it even has a shield generator?. its really good. Also think of the unbalance. Con: why the hell are they weak to standard ties?. lol, correlian corevettes blow his buttocks up, x-wings aswell, and red squadron... lol, hes to weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dede_frost Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 First: Darth Vader = Anakin, Anakni = best fighter pilot in the galaxy. Ypu follow me? Second: Darth Vader is the Empire's version of Rogue squadron. Third: As mentiuoned above, Vader has THE ONLY prototipe tie-advance EVER MADE, the newer tie-av were totally different, so the prototipe became a simbol of SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindle Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 original poster has a point, given Vaders flight record in the original trilogy.. the only trilogy that I look to for any real answers to SW questions.. it stands to reason that A) they would have put him as a "fleet commander" type unit, or B) put him in the Advanced Tie but make it so his ONLY weakness is the Millenium Falcon. If Lucas wasn't such a complete screw up (while he was making craptastic prequals) he would have remembered that Vader was taken out incredibly easy and the only fighters he shot down in SW were fighters flying down a trench in a strait line no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn2008 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 >>MoVeD To General Discussion<< Fleet commander? Darth Vader? No.... That would be such a waste of talents. Anakin Skywalker, now Darth Vader is one of the best star pilots in the galaxy. And swindle what does Lucas have to do with anything? He didnt make this game and/or have much if anything to do with it. Even though they may not show it, Vaders talents were still there. Why would we want two hero star destroyers anyway? I like it the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Vader was never a fleet commander.. when the DS1 was being attacked, he was rushing to his fighter, in true anakin skywalker fashion Vader's TIE is indeed an uber awesome TIE Advanced, which do have shields. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerRei Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Actually, if you read the book Shadows of the Empire, you can see that Vader does a bit more flying in his TIE Advanced. Of course, it also does show that Vader no longer seems to care for flying anymore, since he cant find an opponent worthy enough for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Actually, if you read the book Shadows of the Empire, you can see that Vader does a bit more flying in his TIE Advanced. Of course, it also does show that Vader no longer seems to care for flying anymore, since he cant find an opponent worthy enough for him. lolz, I hope this doesnt turn into one of those "who would win in a dogfight - Luke vs Vader" arguments !! With regards to Vaders Flight being the Imp Rogue Squadron equivalent.... it wouldve been much cooler to also have Soontiir Fels 181st, who were also operating at that time[/EU fanboy] mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renown Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Resort to insulting my age, because of a game, and a movie? Holy jesus. Anyways, I'm completely ignoring that guy. The Trilogy IS Star Wars. Thats what I feel, you may FEEL otherwise. But, I don't really care about the EU, or his life as Anakin Skywalker, which I might add, ended when Obi-Wan defeated him. Let me try to count the times I've seen Darth Vader in a Star Destroyer, commanding. *I could be forgetting some times additionally, as I haven't seen the movies recently* ANH, he starts off in an Imperial Star Destroyer, the first, and probably most well known scene in the entire Star Wars fanfare. ESB, I believe he starts off in his SSD, Executer? Then he chokes some guy (who's brother was also an idiot, but I have forgotten both of their names) because he acted without Vader's authorization (and resulted in failure - Vader probably appreciates initiative that has positive results. , and makes Piett the Admiral of the fleet. He continues on the SSD for the majority of the movie. At which he is consulted, on directions and orders. (Mmm does that mean he commanded the fleet?)Only excepting his appearance in Bespin, after which, I might add, he was on a SD, when Luke felt him through the force. ROTJ - He is stationed on a SD while the Imperial shuttle sneaks past, and grants their authorization to land- direct example of command. After which he takes personal command of Luke's confinement, and then is in the Throne Room with the Emperor. Counting up - that makes it so Vader was on 4 seperate ships, for different periods of time. However, Vader spent... less then 5 minutes in a Tie Advanced Prototype, and he automatically he is placed in a Tie Squadron in game? I don't see how the math, alone makes that work. We don't even know if his flying skills have stayed the same. We do know his lightsaber skills were heavily altered by his armor, and mechanics. How do we know he stayed an amazing fighter pilot? Try jumping in a cockpit of ANYTHING. I have flown before, and I can tell you that if you suddenly gave me a mechanical arm, that is much stronger and slower, I would have difficulty compensating the strength, and movement in a cramped fighter cockpit that relies on quick hand movement and other physical attributes (I'm not denying that his concentration would allow him to over come some difficulties, in addition to the force). I'm simply saying that including in the EU, we currently don't have proof that he was even a great fighter. (Though, it has been a LONG time since I read the SotE, but nothing glaringly amazing pops out at me. Additionally I may have missed some comics, or other Star Wars stuff.. theres so much of it out there). I quite simply believe that Vader would have been better suited to a Command role (not like Piett, I was thinking more like Tarkin). (He should also have a squad of elite Stormtroopers with him at all times..) - Speaking of that, Wheres Palpatines Royal Guard.. As for the anti-Red Squadron, well quite simply at this time frame Red Squadron didn't face an enemy it couldnt beat. If it met a force too large, or too threatening, it hyperspaced away (according to X-Wing I believe.. but I could be mistaken). Symbolism, err, has no place in this argument. I couldn't care less about his Tie Advanced Prototype, joy.. (which - there were multiple copies of, if you played Tie Fighter (or its expansion pack, I think, in which the PROTOTYPE was included) Anyways, thats my long and drawn out argument for something that I've honestly thought too much on atm, but I have spare time. FYI- I really don't care if my opinion saddens you Rhedd-5. I really have no time whatsoever to waste a single thought on your emotional well being over feeling bad about an opinion on a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Vader never was really in direct command of any Star Destroyer. He told the commanders what he wanted them to do, and they executed his instructions on their own. After all, Admiral Ozzel had enough leeway to make the fatal mistake of bringing the fleet out of hyperspace too close to the Hoth System: Vader told him to invade Hoth, but left him in command. Similarly, we see Vader in A New Hope on the mission to recover the stolen plans, but we never actually see him commanding the Star Destroyer. In Return of the Jedi, the officer on the Star Destroyer "was about to clear them" [the Rebels] to land on Endor, and Vader only came into the picture because...well, he walked over. But when things start going the wrong way...he's just got to take matters into his own hands. And when he does, he's good at it: that's what makes him so terrifying. Not only does he have the might of the Imperial military behind him, but he can take on the Rebellion himself. "Several fighters have broken off from the main group. Come with me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomoUniversalis Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 "Several fighters have broken off from the main group. Come with me." Then why does he launch his Tie whenever there is a battle, even when it is just against a space station? Does he have so much more confidence in his prowess in a Tie Advanced fighter then in a fully armed Star Destroyer, led by a crew that, even when incompetent, should be able to blow up more in a second than he can do in an hour. The fact that he lands in a Shuttle, not a tie, suggests that when not in combat missions, he spends his time on a ship (big enough to carry a shuttle). Renown, I agree with you. If it takes age to 'understand the meaning of the Tie advanced', I'm glad I don't understand, rather than be that bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Raven Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Vader never was really in direct command of any Star Destroyer. He told the commanders what he wanted them to do, and they executed his instructions on their own. That is how the chain of command generaly works in the navy. The fleet commander, usualy an admiral but in this case vader will give commands to the rest of the fleet like "Destroy that ship" the captain will then say something like "follow that ship" then a lieutenant might say "steer to port" and so on, as the order goes the further down the chain of command the order will get interpreted by the other officers in more detail so that the original order can be carried out. Aside from all that I still think having him in a tie is quite cool because it is just more interesting than having him in a star destroyer or something, maybe he will be in an executor if there is an ESB/ROTJ exp pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Vader wasn't even really in the chain of command, though. He was a sort of outside influence, separate from and above rank and standard channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbie911 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Why is Darth Vader in a TIE Advanced? Because Vader is one of the "best starpilots in the galaxy." Sure, he can command any ship in the fleet, but that's not who Darth Vader is. When the timeline moves forward and the Super-class Star Destroyer enters the game, then having Vader aboard the Executor would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renown Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Please read my post Hobbie, before you jump to that conclusion. Raven is right, when he says that Vader was in overall command. Tarkin never directly controlled anything - I.E. he is now in the most powerful ship on screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 ANH, he starts off in an Imperial Star Destroyer, the first, and probably most well known scene in the entire Star Wars fanfare. He storms a Rebel ship. As far as I know, fighters aren't boarding vessels. Totally irrelevent. ESB, I believe he starts off in his SSD, Executer? Then he chokes some guy (who's brother was also an idiot, but I have forgotten both of their names) because he acted without Vader's authorization (and resulted in failure - Vader probably appreciates initiative that has positive results. , and makes Piett the Admiral of the fleet. And? What is he supposed to do? Stay in his fighter cockpit all day long? He continues on the SSD for the majority of the movie. At which he is consulted, on directions and orders. (Mmm does that mean he commanded the fleet?)Only excepting his appearance in Bespin, after which, I might add, he was on a SD, when Luke felt him through the force. Same as above. ROTJ - He is stationed on a SD while the Imperial shuttle sneaks past, and grants their authorization to land- direct example of command. After which he takes personal command of Luke's confinement, and then is in the Throne Room with the Emperor. Again, as much as I'm sure he loves to sit in a cockpit all day long, he likes to get out once in a while. Counting up - that makes it so Vader was on 4 seperate ships, for different periods of time. However, Vader spent... less then 5 minutes in a Tie Advanced Prototype, and he automatically he is placed in a Tie Squadron in game? Yes, because it's his symbolic ship. We connect Vader and the Tie Advanced X1 just as we connect Han and the Falcon or Luke and X-Wing. I don't see how the math, alone makes that work. We don't even know if his flying skills have stayed the same. We do know his lightsaber skills were heavily altered by his armor, and mechanics. How do we know he stayed an amazing fighter pilot? Try jumping in a cockpit of ANYTHING. I have flown before, and I can tell you that if you suddenly gave me a mechanical arm, that is much stronger and slower, I would have difficulty compensating the strength, and movement in a cramped fighter cockpit that relies on quick hand movement and other physical attributes (I'm not denying that his concentration would allow him to over come some difficulties, in addition to the force). Then what is your point if you don't deny that his mastery of the Force would overcome most of his problems? Look at Yoda. The tiny midget is an awesome fighter even with short hands and legs. By the way, there is no proof that his lightsaber skills were not as good as before. For the last time, there is no comparison that can be made between the saber combat in the OT and the saber combat in the PT. I'm simply saying that including in the EU, we currently don't have proof that he was even a great fighter. (Though, it has been a LONG time since I read the SotE, but nothing glaringly amazing pops out at me. Additionally I may have missed some comics, or other Star Wars stuff.. theres so much of it out there). So? That does not allow him to be in a Tie Advanced because? I quite simply believe that Vader would have been better suited to a Command role (not like Piett, I was thinking more like Tarkin). (He should also have a squad of elite Stormtroopers with him at all times..) - Speaking of that, Wheres Palpatines Royal Guard.. Except that he's a Sith Lord and gameplay forces him to be a fighting unit. As for the anti-Red Squadron, well quite simply at this time frame Red Squadron didn't face an enemy it couldnt beat. If it met a force too large, or too threatening, it hyperspaced away (according to X-Wing I believe.. but I could be mistaken). So this is relevent because? Symbolism, err, has no place in this argument. I couldn't care less about his Tie Advanced Prototype, joy.. (which - there were multiple copies of, if you played Tie Fighter (or its expansion pack, I think, in which the PROTOTYPE was included) Except that it wasn't the prototype, it was the Avenger, the "full" version of the Tie Advanced. And yes, symbolism is important when you make a game based on a movie serie and you actually expect it to do well sales-wise. By the way, let's not turn this into a flame war. So everyone better cool it down a bit. I sense the heat rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Alec Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That was one big fanboy-ish whooping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 We don't even know if his flying skills have stayed the same. We do know his lightsaber skills were heavily altered by his armor, and mechanics. How do we know he stayed an amazing fighter pilot? It mentions in the Dark Lord novel he is still the best pilot in the galaxy its the one area his powers didnt diminish. By the way, there is no proof that his lightsaber skills were not as good as before. For the last time, there is no comparison that can be made between the saber combat in the OT and the saber combat in the PT. He mentions in Dark Lord his lightsaber skill isnt what it used to be that why he had to adapt to the heavy swinging we see in the OT we also see this in the Purge comic where he has problems with jedi there. But anyway i think Vader should be in his tie its his ship he even designed it he prefers being out in it in a battle rather than hiding away in a star destroyer he is anakin skywalker and he loves to fly its the one time he doesnt feel confined by his suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 He didn't just fly a TIE advanced, he was also in a Jedi Interceptor. Have you ever flown one of these into battle, in that case you should know that that is where the fun begins. He also neven went into battle on a StarDestoyer. At Endor Peitt commanded the fleet (under direct control of the emperor). Vader was too busy making Luke turn to the DS (and I don't think that could have been done in a TIE). At Hoth there wasn't a space battle. At Yavin, he was havein fun in his TIE. At Coruscant, he was having fun in his Jedi Interceptor. At Geonosis he only fought on the ground. At Naboo, he was in a N1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 wow....LIAYDS Force Long Posting...... fanboy ! Damnit Terros.... Im SO looking forward to reading DARK LORD. I finally have it but Im saving it for my plane trip later this year I'll content myself with Swarm War and Outbound Flight until then... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gswift Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I don't think he belongs in an ISD. Tarkin was comander of the military. Vader did have his home on one particular ISD because of the life support chamber he slept in when he took his helmet off. I think of Vader as being the Emperor's right hand. He's more like the vice president (who sits in an office or a limo), rather than an Admiral (who has the responsibility of day-to-day operations of a fleet and sits in the bridge). He wasn't just in charge of the fleet, he was in charge of EVERYONE except the emperor. He was just as much in command of an ISD as he was in command of the population of entire planets. EVERYONE answeres to the Emperor's apprentice, or they die. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbie911 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Please read my post Hobbie, before you jump to that conclusion. Raven is right, when he says that Vader was in overall command. Tarkin never directly controlled anything - I.E. he is now in the most powerful ship on screen. I did read your post. And I disregarded it. Vader has a penchant for doing things personally. Couple that with his experience, talent, and skills in a starfighter, and you can understand why he's leading Black Squadron. If you happen to think that's not appropriate, then that's your prerogative. Star Wars lore will be there to refute you every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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