Should the format change maybe?

[Non-false Jedi]

The first two Kotor generallly had a pattern of two planets in a row, then a selection of a few others in what ever order, followed by the last planet, then the game ends.

 

Do you think they could instead feasably make the game larger and divide it into different Acts?

 

For example one theory i had for the Kotor III storyline is

 

part 1: Investiating Unknown regions, starting at some remote turorial space station, going across several worlds in the True Sith Empire, 3 maybe? Culiminating in a confrontation with the Lords of the Sith, revealing their plans.

 

part 2: Sith invasion fleet is launched, game then shifts into Republic space setting and you play across several worlds under attack by Sith armies, maybe you start off stranded on Korriban, or somewhere and try to get a ship space worthy to join the republic defence forces on worlds that burn. The Sith advance fast and the act culiminates with a climactic battle over Coruscant.

 

Part III: Counter-attack, Republic forces quickly fighting back to the Sith Capital where you face off and defeat the Sith Lords and their last bid for victory. Which can end you either taking command of or healing the shattered republic.

 

That would make the game much longer but wouldn't it be interesting? Each act wouldn't have to be the exact same size as the previous two games, but there are RPG's containing multiple sections, like Neverwinter Nights. You gusy think that would be possible? workable dooable? good idea? Bad idea?

[†Saint_Killa†]

By chapter??? Hmmm I dunno? But all KotOR games is always continuous without parts or chapters but by planets so kinda like the same.

 

But it might kinda make the quest journal more organized.

[Kensai]

No because it would turn into Fire Emblem, sucky sucky, $10...

[†Saint_Killa†]

what's fire emblem????

[Cygnus Q'ol]

What would be the case if I wanted to play DS?

 

Why would I fight sith?

[Non-false Jedi]

In that scenario:

 

Because, the Sith Lords would want to kill you. The battle of Coruscant leaves the Republic very vulnerable, and the end of the game, instead of destroying the Sith superweapon or something, you use it to fire on Courscant at the end leaving the Republic open to a Coup-De-tat. Which you would promptly do with the few surviving Sith Soldiers who pledge aliegence to you after defeating Darth (insert name here). The Republic would need strong leadership to endure the post war chaos.

 

or something to that effect. It was only a rough plan anyway.

 

Lots of people hae their own ideas, i figured i share a few of mine.

[RobQel-Droma]

No. Not in one of the same series of games. Maybe in a different game with a different style of play. But it should stay the same format as the previous two; you can make it longer by adding more planets in between, or pairing planets like in TSL.

[RedHawke]

I thought by the title of this thread it was about the combat system...

 

I personally wouldn't mind if they had a multiple Main Quest that like unlocked sets of planets in progression, like start with 4-6 after getting the initial quest, and then unlock 2-4 more after a certain goal is met, and then for the last part unlock a final 1-2 more for the end.

[Jae Onasi]

I wouldn't mind having some more planets myself, but I don't want it to deviate greatly from the format of the previous games.

[Soogz]

Doesn't really matter the order to me as much. I just wish that they would give us more planets in general...

[Aurora Merlow]

I like the idea of more planets and i guess i wouldn't be against the idea of a sequential story like Redhawke said, it does sound a little different and might work. But i like the idea of being able to chose where you go and in which order you do things, it just works for me as a RPG

[Non-false Jedi]

So does that mean you guys think multiple major plot events during the course of the game is a bad idea?

[Darth333]

The story you posted looks more fit for an fps to me. I see a lot of hack and slash but not many opportunities for Role-play in this. I prefer to visit planets with more npc interaction than "going across several worlds in the True Sith Empire " which I imagine completely hostile...

 

What I wish to have in the game is more role-play options and more freedom of movement.

[Darth InSidious]

No, thank ye kindly, goode sir.

Let's stick with the system that works, hmm?

[Kitty Kitty]

What I wish to have in the game is more role-play options and more freedom of movement.

 

Bingo.

 

Frankly, I don't care if they use 'chapters' or not, since in a way the format already exists in a semi-transparent way. In order to follow the main story you're pretty much locked into doing certain things a certain way, and there's a distinct beginning, middle, and end -all of which open or lock off certain areas/aspects of the game. Therefore, whether they use chapters or not is really a moot point IMO.

 

The real question you have to ask is whether you want to have more or less control of your own choices and actions. Personally, I'd opt for more.

 

Coupled with that, any format that gives me more freedom to roam around and find all the little hidden bits of dialogue by the various NPCs (and getting different ones with different members in the party and such), finding and playing around with more extra little side-quests and exploring and whatnot.. That's what I want to see.

 

Of course, I don't want any of this to compromise the main storyline and "core content", as I feel all the "added" stuff should always remain completely optional. Those of us who enjoy it are free to diddle away with things that have virtually nothing to do with pushing the main plot forward for days if we wish, while others can just skim and/or ignore it entirely and still enjoy a full and rewarding main story and not feel like it was hollow and lacking.

 

One of the only examples of this that comes to mind is Morrowind. There's a main plot which you have to (eventually) follow if you want to make the main storyline go anywhere, and that by itself can take a fair chunk of time and doesn't by any means seem half done or hollow. But the great thing about the game is the freedom to pursue that main thread if and when you wish, and there's actually a lot more "side content" that's 100% player's option as to whether or not you even bother.

 

Hence, I can't wait for Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, but that's not the point here. The point is that if the format were to 'change', I'd rather see it change in ways bringing it closer to that sort of game model, while leaving all the great aspects we've already seen in previous KotOR titles (some mentioned above) and keeping the feel and tone of the games intact.

 

Yet another (not so) short story on the subject by yours truly.

 

Cheers,

-Kitty

[stoffe]

One of the only examples of this that comes to mind is Morrowind. There's a main plot which you have to (eventually) follow if you want to make the main storyline go anywhere, and that by itself can take a fair chunk of time and doesn't by any means seem half done or hollow. But the great thing about the game is the freedom to pursue that main thread if and when you wish, and there's actually a lot more "side content" that's 100% player's option as to whether or not you even bother.

 

Baldurs Gate II:SoA is another example of such a game. While not quite as open as Morrowind, it had huge amounts of side quests and areas with nothing to do with the main plot line. You could spend months (in-game time) wandering around doing things in chapter 2, 3 and 6 before proceeding with the main plotline. And that game still had a strong main plot, so the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

I agree that this kind of openness, giving the player more choice in what to do, would be very nice. Even if it doesn't contribute directly to the plot itself it brings the game world to life, fleshing out the backdrop and, most importantly, gives you a better illusion of freedom of choice without interfering too much with the story telling aspect of the game.

 

That kind of game takes a huge amount of time to develop though (and an equally huge effort to ensure it's reasonably bug free). Unfortunately most developers aren't willing to invest that amount of time and money into product development any more, if they can squeeze out two games with the same investment instead.

[Kitty Kitty]

(Quotes have been cut down for space)

Baldurs Gate II:SoA is another example of such a game.

 

Well, the reason that one didn't come to mind was that I was soured by BG 1 and the expansion, so I still haven't ever played BG 2. But I'll take your word for it, because even the first title had some of those elements involved, so it's not hard to make the leap as to what sort of 'side content' the second may have held.

 

I do know though that speaking of BG 1, *most* of the 'side content' still felt very forced. You either had to specifically go way out of your way looking for it, else more often it was something that would almost inevitably happen in pursuit of your main goals anyway, lessening the feel of it being anything 'additional'. I remember feeling quite 'led by the nose' through the first game, which again is one of the big reasons I never played the second.

 

 

That kind of game takes a huge amount of time to develop though (and an equally huge effort to ensure it's reasonably bug free). Unfortunately most developers aren't willing to invest that amount of time and money into product development any more, if they can squeeze out two games with the same investment instead.

 

Agreed, but what the game community has been gradually saying to these folks is that this is the wrong school of thinking. Over the last two decades, the average age of computer gamers has increased dramatically. Furthermore, the idea of genre and style has evolved a great deal from the early days. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, the difference between say a role playing title and a strategy title were minimal at best. Now those lines are much more defined (in most cases) and different portions of the gamer audience demand more attention to their individual concerns when it comes to one genre of game over another.

 

That is, by data available on the subject, today's cRPG fan is on average 25 - 35 (though of course with many fans both above and below this range as well) and there are certain game aspects that most of them virtually demand. The reason why there are very few successful series in the RPG genre isn't because less of them have been attempted, it's because less of them measure up to the scrutiny of their target audience.

 

Now, I'm not saying anything derogatory about say the FPS crowd, but the demands they make tend to be easier to live up to on average. Things like subsequent titles need to have better graphics, cooler weapons, more realistic enemies, better AI..

 

The point being that you could make 10 FPS games that were virtually identical, except where they differ due to new and better game engines allowing for the dazzling graphics and more realistic movement and behavior of the enemies and so forth. Then all you need to do is design level maps and give some semblance of a story that makes sense with the sort of setting you've created with that dazzling artwork and viola. It'll still feel like a completely different game, even though at the core it's really very much the same as virtually any other FPS.

 

With a game like Morrowind or KotOR, you really can't quite do that. Yes, graphics are important, but much less so by comparison since the audience tends to place a higher degree of emphasis on other aspects of the game. In order to produce an RPG series that has any real chance of success, the game companies must (and are beginning to slowly) learn that such time and effort spent in longer development of a quality product is the choice they need to be making, rather than several quick and dirty smaller and simpler titles in a series.

 

Again, please no one take offense here. I'm in no way saying one group of gamers are better than any other, nor the games themselves. They're simply different, and speaking on average, the type of game someone is mainly drawn to tends to change the weight of each various facet of what they see as the key aspects they look for when deciding if a given title was worth their $50 or not.

 

At any rate, it's a sad but true fact that at the heart and soul of the game company will always be someone who's primary interest is profit, and choices --sometimes bad ones-- will be made to ensure maximum profitability. Much of the time that's going to mean they make compromises in the games we get as an end result, because it's less risk than taking the better route of putting in the time and effort to make a great game a spectacular game and picking up the profits as a result of popularity and longevity of a title. But after watching game trends since the days when a monochrome monitor and some text was the cutting edge, I've seen enough shifts in the thinking to still hold some hope that these attitudes will continue to improve little by little as time goes by.

 

Hey, I gotta have something to look forward to in my old age.

 

Cheers,

-Kitty

[Non-false Jedi]

The story you posted looks more fit for an fps to me. I see a lot of hack and slash but not many opportunities for Role-play in this. I prefer to visit planets with more npc interaction than "going across several worlds in the True Sith Empire " which I imagine completely hostile...

 

What I wish to have in the game is more role-play options and more freedom of movement.

 

 

Fair enough. But I didn't exactly mean going through whole planets' worth of hostile npcs, i mean Taris technically was a hostile world. But you got to role play. At the beggining taking on a Forgotten Empire singlehandedly by force would not exactly be a wise choice, so by "going across several worlds of the Ancient Sith Empire" i meant you know...discreetly undercover and the like. Theoretcially Later in the game if a war is on, you could have a number of plaents with a somewhat vaugly similar situation to your second visit to Onderon. Perhaps different planets, in differing stages of conflcit to add variety.

 

The Sith are coming!

or

The Sith are Here!

or

The Sith have just been here!

[stoffe]

Well, the reason that one didn't come to mind was that I was soured by BG 1 and the expansion, so I still haven't ever played BG 2. But I'll take your word for it, because even the first title had some of those elements involved, so it's not hard to make the leap as to what sort of 'side content' the second may have held.

 

Agreed, but what the game community has been gradually saying to these folks is that this [shorter, more focused games] is the wrong school of thinking.

 

Fortunately the game format changed a great deal between BG1 and BG2, and in my opinion entirely for the better. I wasn't too fond of BG1 either, but I loved Baldurs Gate II and have lost track of how many times I have played it and how many hours I spent modding it.

 

(Some of the more noticable changes are greater variety of quests, more fleshed-out party members with tons of dialog, No "roam" map with lots of wilderness but a world map system where you travel between areas of interest instead. Much of the side-quests and indeed several destinations on the map have nothing at all to do with the main quest and can be done or skipped at your leisure. Quests varies from simple FedEx quests to more drawn out side-plotlines. The main plotline also offers some choice where there is more than once way to advance forward in the plot.)

 

It's by far the longest game I have ever played. Though I haven't clocked it I have guesstimated that a single playthough in which you go out of your way to do everything possible, it would take up towards 200 hours to play through once. Only Morrowind has gotten close to that.

 

If you ever find yourself with 200 hours you don't know what to do with, pick up BG2:SoA and give it a chance. If you can stand the antiquated graphics there's a fair chance you will like it if you liked the KotOR games. (Just don't get discouraged by the starting dungeon, I almost abandoned my first playthrough because of it. ) Such an old game should be dirt-cheap by now so it wouldn't be a huge investment.

 

One of the Bioware designers said it was the largest game they will ever make, since they likely will never attempt another game of that huge scale again.

 

On topic: While I liked the fairly story focused design of the KotOR games, allowing some more free roaming with interesting but optional side quests would make the third game ever better. This is one aspect of BG2 and later Morrowind that it's a shame not more games embrace.

[DarkLord152]

Intersting idea but im not so sure about it so i would have to think about it.