Everyone get out your Wii!

[Alien426]

The part where you forsake innovative Nintendo for play-the-same-damn-game-on-every-system-even-the-portable Sony. Face it, Sony and Microsoft aren't very much about innovation. You get the standard control layout on the consoles and the handheld. The hardware power is mostly used for eye candy.

 

Nintendo has made the DS with touch screen and micro. While my old PocketPC has those, too, they also made the games that take advantage of it. Yes, they will connect console and handheld, but I'm sure it will be in a well thought out way.

 

Nintendo might just make gaming everything it can be.

[Yufster]

Also the part where you said "new" playstation 3 controller. It's the dualshock, without vibration! And they've embarrassingly tried to rip off Nintendo with their 'six degrees of freedom' which, let's face it, no developer is actually going to use. Watching the sony guy stand there with a dualshock 2 and then try to convince everybody it was innovative, without mentioning a certain Wiimote... man that was embarrassing. and funny.

[Alien426]

You were there?

 

Also, I agree. Every time you have a PC versus console argument, they say something like "Oh, but [console] has a mouse". Only that the mouse is optional and no game uses it.

[Fealiks]

You were there?

 

well thats the most likely alternative, but then of course theres a tiny chance that somehow shes watched the video of it ¬¬

 

I disagree with you, yufster, lots of develepors will use the "six degrees of freedom" thingamabob. Warhawk uses it to its full advantage and you cant argue that that looks extremely fun. Resistance: Fall of Man may take advantage of it, i dont really know much about that yet. Think of all the possbilities! A remote as a console controller may be innovative but that doesnt mean its necessarily a good idea. Okay so red steel looks awewsome but thats about the only game that will be able to use that feature. I'm guessing about 10 games out of 100 would successfuly put this creation to use and make it half as good as games on the PS3. At least the dualshock3 can be used as either: a controller and a super fly plane machine thingy "6 degrees of freedom" controller. Sony hasnt copied nintendo as they both use completely different technology and sony has been developing this controller before nintendo even announced the capabilities of the WiiMote. Lets think about it for a second. The WiiMote has 3 dimensions to move in where the PS3 only has tilts which it is getting critisized for. The critics, however, fail to see that developers just arent ready for the WiiMote yet. The dualshock3, however, while it is on the verge of being too creative can be utilized in a very satisfying manner. lets take a look at this Wii - favoring little comparison.

 

things you "cant do with the same precision on ps3":

 

Throwing/Catching a ball at a specific spot shown on screen, swinging a sword in 3D space and performing stabbing motions, aiming a weapon light-gun-style, swinging a racket, punching, general 3D item interaction, 3D drum simulator, swatting an "on-screen" fly, performing two separate tilt/motion functions at the same time.

 

now ill annotate it.

 

Throwing/Catching a ball at a specific spot shown on screen,name a game that will tell you to throw a ball at someone... i meant a fun one... swinging a sword in 3D space and performing stabbing motions,ill give you that. aiming a weapon light-gun-style you can aim a gun in a style that is much more accepted and that people are more used to with the dualshock3 though. And light guns are only about a fiver from the bargain bin , swinging a racket,which, as demonstrated on an E3 video doesnt seem to work very well AT ALL. its just downright pathetic in my opinion. punching,yep, you can have that. general 3D item interaction,dont cheat, thats just summing all of these things up... 3D drum simulator,something we cant live without...¬¬ swatting an "on-screen" fly,another neccesity... performing two separate tilt/motion functions at the same time.now youre getting desperate. The maximum amount of tilt functions physically possible to perform at one time is 2. And a dualshock3 can do both. at the same time.

 

so heres what the list should look like:

swinging a sword in 3D space and performing stabbing motions, punching, oh wait, thats it... quick, Dave! put some crap about swatting flies in there! weve only got four minutes!

 

the full article: http://uk.revolution.ign.com/articles/705/705870p1.html

[elTee]

red steel looks awewsome but thats about the only game that will be able to use that feature.

The only launch game.

 

The critics, however, fail to see that developers just arent ready for the WiiMote yet.

When developers were first presented with the analogue stick they didn't all utilise it immediately either, and that had a lot less potential than the WiiMote does. Nintendo are selling Wii development kits for something like $2000 (I think) compared to something like $20,000 for a PS3 dev kit (again, I could be wrong.) In an industry where each game costs in the millions to make, $2000 isn't much to spend in order to pursue 'that idea about a baseball game where you use the WiiMote to hit the ball' or whatever. It's precisely that difference which would make another generic sports game suddenly stand out as something awesome, and I'm sure EA like that proposition. Awesome = games getting sold.

 

Throwing/Catching a ball at a specific spot shown on screen,name a game that will tell you to throw a ball at someone... i meant a fun one... swinging a sword in 3D space and performing stabbing motions,ill give you that. aiming a weapon light-gun-style you can aim a gun in a style that is much more accepted and that people are more used to with the dualshock3 though. And light guns are only about a fiver from the bargain bin , swinging a racket,which, as demonstrated on an E3 video doesnt seem to work very well AT ALL. its just downright pathetic in my opinion. punching,yep, you can have that. general 3D item interaction,dont cheat, thats just summing all of these things up... 3D drum simulator,something we cant live without...¬¬ swatting an "on-screen" fly,another neccesity... performing two separate tilt/motion functions at the same time.now youre getting desperate. The maximum amount of tilt functions physically possible to perform is 2. And a dualshock3 can do both. at the same time.

From a third-party developer point of view, you may have some points here. What you're forgetting is that some of the more esoteric features of this controller which wouldn't normally get used will be totally exploited by Nintendo themselves. Whilst there's not really an excuse for churning out Mario Party after Mario Party, the minigames will take on an entirely new dimension now - and when all's said and done, they're fun to play.

 

Although I could see this getting annoying, there's no reason why the WiiMote could get rid of the 'action' button in some games. Imagine a scenario where you need to pull a lever to open a door, then turn a wheel to reduce the pressure - it could be in Metal Gear Solid, say. Instead of walking up to the lever and pressing 'A' (or whatever) then repeating that action with the wheel, now you can actually swing the lever and turn the wheel intuitively (maybe by holding the Z trigger down to tell the game that you're controlling the 'hands' and not the character.)

 

Yeah yeah, that would get tiresome after a while, but it's a possibility that I'd rather entertain than be guaranteed not to have available for me. For traditional, think-inside-the-box games, I'll use my Gamecube controller or the Wii Classic.

[Thrik]

Before continuing any and all PS3 motion sensor debate, be sure to read this.

 

It's unfortunate, but Sony knows exactly how to manipulate the masses by throwing in the right buzzwords in the right places, and saying very specific things that they know full well imply something that isn't so.

 

The other day I was speaking to someone in town, and somehow he'd got the impression from what Sony had said around E3 that the PS3 would ship with graphics almost on par with those in blockbuster films; I think “cinematic graphics” was the term used by Sony that he based this off of. I've come across many instances of stuff like this over the years.

 

Sony constantly gets away with this rubbish and somehow the masses just manage to forget. Remember E3 2005's “in-game”, “real-time” PS3 footage? Lol.

[Joshi]

The other day I was speaking to someone in town, and somehow he'd got the impression from what Sony had said around E3 that the PS3 would ship with graphics almost on par with those in blockbuster films; I think “cinematic graphics” was the term used by Sony that he based this off of. I've come across many instances of stuff like this over the years.

 

People get confused with the fact that the PS3 will be using a new Chip architechture (the Cell, or 8 of them if memory serves), which technically has a higher graphics potential, but overall would still lag if any game tried to render 30 "cinematic scenes" per second. If the cell were employed by people like Pixar then their movies would be alot easier to make as scenes can be rendered a hell of a lot faster than current, but we're not about to see perfect real-time graphics.

[Alien426]

"My judo grip on English has allowed me to create a word that describes this phenomenon perfectly: Bullshot"

[Yufster]

E3 2005's in-game real-time PS3 footage!!! LOL!!!!!!

[Fealiks]

The only launch game.

It's precisely that difference which would make another generic sports game suddenly stand out as something awesome, and I'm sure EA like that proposition. Awesome = games getting sold.

 

I'm sure people would stop finding it amazing after a while. Believe me, this is a novelty console.

 

From a third-party developer point of view, you may have some points here. What you're forgetting is that some of the more esoteric features of this controller which wouldn't normally get used will be totally exploited by Nintendo themselves. Whilst there's not really an excuse for churning out Mario Party after Mario Party, the minigames will take on an entirely new dimension now - and when all's said and done, they're fun to play.

That is really all the WiiMote seems to be good for - minigames. This of it as being like an EyeToy. after a while, you want to un-plug your EyeToy and get back to normal games. But with the Wii, you cant.

 

 

Let me make one thing clear: Im not trying to say that the Wii is crap compared to the PS3, I'm still undecided on which one I want (If I do even get one), I'm just trying to say that people believe the Wii controller is ten times better than the PS3, when really, the magnitude of "betterness" isnt way up there at all. While the WiiMote may be better than the DualShock 3 (Or DualShake as Joystig say) in some ways, the PS3 has its high notes too.

[Thrik]

It's very easy to dismiss the wiimote as only suitable for mini-games, but really, that's utter nonsense. People said exactly the same thing about the DS's touch screen, but it has proven to be a very intuitive and easy-to-use part of many games, and the console itself has been incredibly successful.

 

Then let's not forget that it was Nintendo who made control pads a standard piece of kit with consoles, after making them a mandatory part. Before the NES, control pads existed but were mainly just used for novelty purposes and/or very specific games and never took off as a mass market peripheral. Sound familiar? Then they went ahead and did exactly the same with the analogue stick.

 

Nintendo has a history of knowing what technologies to make a mandatory part of the experience for the sake of better gaming in general, and in pretty much all cases that part has then gone on to become standardised with every other console. Will history repeat itself again? Only the next year or two can tell.

 

Sony on the other hand has a history of just shouting out “me too!” and trying to upstage Nintendo by nabbing their popular new technology and then changing it in a way that'll make your average grunt say, “Hey, Sony's is clearly better!”.

 

Examples, you say?

 

1. Nintendo puts two buttons on the top of their controller (the R buttons), Sony puts four on their controller.

 

2. Nintendo puts an analogue stick on their controller, Sony puts two on their controller.

 

3. Nintendo puts force feedback on their controller, Sony puts force feedback in their controller.

 

4. Nintendo brings out a motion sensitive controller, Sony brings out a motion sensitive controller with “more ranges of motion” (although this does not make it better).

 

In short: Nintendo innovates, while Sony copies them and are bastards. As such, the chances are that Nintendo will do it right; Sony will initially do it wrong, and then get it right after Nintendo shows them how. That is my prediction, and I will probably be dead-on.

 

The distinction between something like the EyeToy and the wiimote is being mandatory. Nothing innovative and adventurous on a gameplay level will take off if it isn't basically forced into people's hands and made part of almost every single game. That's just how it works.

 

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. A number of PS3 developers admitted when queried by journalists during E3 that they were only told about the motion sensors a few weeks before E3, and as such none of the games are based around it. If any by some stroke of luck do utilise it on launch day, chances are it'll be a tacked-on last minute addition — very much like the sensors themselves!

 

Similarly to what Yufster said and to quote Grim Fandango, I almost feel embarassed for Sony. Ordinarily I wouldn't find myself able to understand how a company could stand up after Nintendo's conference and seriously announce something like those sensors with a straight face — then I remember it's Sony. But will your average grunts stand up and call them out on this? Nah! They're too busy being wow'd by having X more polies and shaders than on the Wii or Xbox 360 being shoved down their throats to care. Gameplay and innovation? Pfft! So 90s.

[Alien426]

in some ways, the PS3 has its high notes too.

Not in gameplay, but glitz, I guess.

 

The maximum amount of tilt functions physically possible to perform is 2.

Umm, how many dimensions do you know?

[elTee]

Of course you all know this, but I'd like to remind that Sony are only even in the gaming business because of Nintendo*.

 

*possibly slightly misleading.

[Ray Jones]

But besides all that I found the PSs very good and fun to play consoles. And it'd have been only a question of time until somebody would have put 4 R buttons / 2 sticks on a controller. The more relevant things are: Does it work? Is it fun?

 

I am surely not the ultra pro gaming nerd and I have no recent gaming experience, but for me personally the PS controller ruled out (and still does) pretty much every other gamepad I ever had in my hands. Except the Namco NeGcon which is just u-n-b-e-a-t-a-b-l-e when it comes to racing games. Not sure if they still support this controller in "newer" games, though. However, I'm glad someone invented USB adapters.

 

But I have to say when the analogue stick was introduced back then, it was Nintendo's stick my thumb could handle like perfect ad hoc. With the Sony pad I still occasionally get the impression that I have a pair of wieners mounted where my thumbs should be.

[elTee]

There's no doubt that the Playstation control pad is a work of genius, but the fact that it's essentially unchanged (okay, button sensitivity, analogue sticks depress, the newest one has all these crazy new gimcracks) for three consoles kind of shows how little imagination Sony have. Eventually in a few generations graphics will be pretty much as good as they can get before starting to look real (I guess) and then people will soon get bored of playing another version of FIFA, on the same control pad, but with more polygons and higher-res textures. Sony of course will adapt at this point (or before) but at least Nintendo are attempting to do something about it already.

 

It's lucky for Sony and Microsoft that Nintendo are around really, because as I said earlier they can see which elements of Wii are successful before they outlay any risk and plunder them.

[Fealiks]

Umm, how many dimensions do you know?

 

umm... about 15. Sorry, I meant at one time. Ill edit the post.