Building a Computer: A few Questions

[Bob Lion54]

Hail and Well Met!

 

I'm building a new PC. For the most part, I think I know what I want, but I thought I would ask the experts here to make sure I don't do something really dumb like get incompatable hardware.

 

First off, I want more power!! *Insert Tim Allen grunt here*

My current PC:

Intel Pentium 4-3.02Ghz

nVidia 6800GT AGP

2GB Ram

 

The 3 things I know for sure are I want to go with AMD, PCI-E, and have 4 Ram slots.

I might get an SLI motherboard, but I have a few questions here. Is SLI simply two PCI-E slots set to work together? Also, If I do get an SLI motherboard, would I be able to use just one card and have the option of getting another later? I know they have to be the same card.

 

So heres the hardware Im looking at currently:

Processor

Motherboard or Motherboard the Second

I have two questions here. What is the Process Type? I've seem 0.13 µm and 90nm, but I don't know what that means or which is better. Also, what is Core? The one I'm looking at is Clawhammer, but again, I don't know if thats a good thing or not.

 

So thats where I stand at the moment. Any advice will be appriciated. Im also considering, but haven't really looked into, going with Duel Core and SLI. From what I hear the performance will be great! I know that will be expensive, but if Its worth it, Ill do it. From what I gather, SLI on its own dosen't give you the performance you would expect and its better to go with PCI-E. One of the guys at work said that SLI with a Duel core will give you the advantage of both video cards. Is he right in this?

 

On last question about going with a Duel Core setup. Does the motherboard matter, or is it purely the proccessor? I've looked a bit, but have not seen a motherboard that is labled as Duel Core. I've only found Processors and Motherboard/CPU combos that are Duel Core.

 

My thanks to any Master who decides to help this computer Padawan!

[stingerhs]

The 3 things I know for sure are I want to go with AMD, PCI-E, and have 4 Ram slots.

I might get an SLI motherboard, but I have a few questions here. Is SLI simply two PCI-E slots set to work together? Also, If I do get an SLI motherboard, would I be able to use just one card and have the option of getting another later? I know they have to be the same card.

one of the advantages to getting an SLI mobo is that you'll be able to upgrade it later when you need more performance in your games. so, yes, it would be to your advantage to get an SLI ready mobo.

I have two questions here. What is the Process Type? I've seem 0.13 µm and 90nm, but I don't know what that means or which is better. Also, what is Core? The one I'm looking at is Clawhammer, but again, I don't know if thats a good thing or not.

the Clawhammer is the original Athlon 64 core that AMD developed. its definately good, but if you compare the process type and the voltage specs to the San Diego core, there are noticeable differences. first, the process type refers to the size a transistor on the chip. so, if you know your abbrieviations, you'll know that 90nm is smaller than 0.13 µm (130nm). this translates into a smaller chip which translates into less heat and less power consumption (thus the 1.5v requirement for the Clawhammer cores vs 1.35v for the San Diego core). it also translates into better overclocking potential if you choose to do so.

 

basically, i'd go with this one over the other chip. it will give you comparable performance, but with less heat and more overclocking potential. that and you'll save a couple bucks.

So thats where I stand at the moment. Any advice will be appriciated. Im also considering, but haven't really looked into, going with Duel Core and SLI. From what I hear the performance will be great! I know that will be expensive, but if Its worth it, Ill do it. From what I gather, SLI on its own dosen't give you the performance you would expect and its better to go with PCI-E. One of the guys at work said that SLI with a Duel core will give you the advantage of both video cards. Is he right in this?

well, the advantages of a duel-core CPU and multiple graphics boards have yet to be fully realized. the main problem is simply that most applications (including games) aren't coded for multiple processors (either CPU or GPU), so you won't get much advantages right away. the main thing you have to remember is that by going for SLI and a duel-core CPU, you're preparing for the future as the next generation of apps are going to take advantage of that extra processing power.

On last question about going with a Duel Core setup. Does the motherboard matter, or is it purely the proccessor? I've looked a bit, but have not seen a motherboard that is labled as Duel Core. I've only found Processors and Motherboard/CPU combos that are Duel Core.

its all about the processor you choose. the only thing to watch with the motherboards is the CPU socket. Intel has always had a ton of sockets, but AMD has been pretty consistant as the major socket available right now is Socket 939. AMD will be switching to the AM2 socket here fairly soon to take advantage of the DDR2-800 memory, but for now, a Socket 939 mobo will work for almost any Athlon64 processor. that includes the single core Athlons and the duel-core AthlonX2's. oh, and that includes the Athlon FX-series of CPU's.

 

speaking of motherboards, both of the ones you selected are fantastic boards.

[Bob Lion54]

First off, How did I know you would come through with the answers?! hehe. Thanks man.

basically, i'd go with this one over the other chip. it will give you comparable performance, but with less heat and more overclocking potential.

So its really just the same chip, just uses less power? Thats the only difference I see, other than the overclock potential. Im not too concerned with overclocking mainly because I don't want to burn anything up. hehe.

well, the advantages of a duel-core CPU and multiple graphics boards have yet to be fully realized. the main problem is simply that most applications (including games) aren't coded for multiple processors (either CPU or GPU), so you won't get much advantages right away. the main thing you have to remember is that by going for SLI and a duel-core CPU, you're preparing for the future as the next generation of apps are going to take advantage of that extra processing power.

Ok, I see. The only question now is will there be compatibility issues with games that are not set up to use a duel core system? Will the games/apps play or give an error like "System Incompatible" or something to that effect?

 

speaking of motherboards, both of the ones you selected are fantastic boards.

Awsome, I feel real good about them now.

 

Now, as far as Duel Core, should I decide to go that way, Hows this Processor? hehe. If I decide to go a bit cheaper what about This one? I couldn't find any San Diego duel cores. Just to be sure, those would work with the motherboards I like?

 

Thanks again!

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

basically, i'd go with this one over the other chip. it will give you comparable performance, but with less heat and more overclocking potential. that and you'll save a couple bucks.

It has the new memory controller as well, so memory latency can be decreased by a lot more while maintaining the same speeds.

 

@Bob Lion54-

Go for the A8N-32, you'll maximize your performance and not have to upgrade it for a long time.

[stingerhs]

Now, as far as Duel Core, should I decide to go that way, Hows this Processor? hehe. If I decide to go a bit cheaper what about This one? I couldn't find any San Diego duel cores. Just to be sure, those would work with the motherboards I like?

 

Thanks again!

well, you won't find a processor with two San Diego cores since it was designed to be a single-core processor. the CPU cores that AMD uses for the duel-cores are currently the Toledo and the Manchester. the differences between those two cores is the L2 cache with the Toledo having double the L2 cache.

 

as for that FX-60: heck ya. but, unless you actually want to spend $1000 just for your CPU, i'd go with this one if you really want a duel-core processor. at only $450, its a pretty good price for the performance you'll get out of it.

 

oh, and keep in mind that each core needs about 1.35v-1.4v, and that means that you need to pay attention to the power supply you get with your new computer. and if you want to eventually upgrade to two graphics boards, you'll probably want to splurge for a 500+ watt power supply.

 

@jmac- oh yeah. forgot about that part. thanks.

[Bob Lion54]

@Bob Lion54-

Go for the A8N-32, you'll maximize your performance and not have to upgrade it for a long time.

Awsome, thanks for the tip. I must admit that Im a bit dissapointed in some of the reviews though. The overwhelming majority rate it as exellent so its probably still a safe choice.

 

as for that FX-60: heck ya. but, unless you actually want to spend $1000 just for your CPU, i'd go with this one if you really want a duel-core processor. at only $450, its a pretty good price for the performance you'll get out of it.

Cool, thanks. Those little .2GHz really make a price difference.

oh, and keep in mind that each core needs about 1.35v-1.4v

Thanks for the heads up. Luckly, my current power supply 550w. The proccessor you posted has a power supply special with it, so I might get that just to be safe though.

 

Anyway, Im thinking about building this thing tommorrow. I do have one question that I think I already know the answer to, but I would like confirmation now that I think about it. Does a AMD 2.2GHz cpu equal about a Pentium4 3.2 or is it not that dramatic of a difference? Also, with the Duel Core AMD 2.2GHz, what would be the GHz Intel would asign it? Im just wanting to get a better understanding of what I'm buying since Im more used to Intel, but I'm definetly going with AMD.

[MTV2]

well, the advantages of a duel-core CPU and multiple graphics boards have yet to be fully realized. the main problem is simply that most applications (including games) aren't coded for multiple processors (either CPU or GPU), so you won't get much advantages right away. the main thing you have to remember is that by going for SLI and a duel-core CPU, you're preparing for the future as the next generation of apps are going to take advantage of that extra processing power.

 

 

most newer games are designed for dual GPUs. some games are being programmed for dual-core CPU's.

 

 

if u have a dual-core CPU and u play a game that is not programmed for it, it'll have a decrease in performance (not much though)

 

if u go for dual gpus, u have to have an 550W PSU.

 

i'd go for the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+. if u have the money or are willing to spend the money, go for the X2 4200+.

 

if u go with dual core GPUs, ull prolly get an increase of max 80%. the new thing now is Quad GPUs, which have insane performance.

 

go for the A8N32-SLI Deluxe, its made for gaming. maybe try and look into the MSI K8N Diamond Plus, prolly one of the best boards out there.

 

SLI is where u install 2 video cards that are the same brand and company (eg. 7900GT must go with a 7900GT, not a 7800GT or a 6800GT or anything else) then you insert an SLI connector to the 2 cards.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

{snip}

if u have a dual-core CPU and u play a game that is not programmed for it, it'll have a decrease in performance (not much though)

 

if u go for dual gpus, u have to have an 550W PSU.

 

{snip}

 

if u go with dual core GPUs, ull prolly get an increase of max 80%. the new thing now is Quad GPUs, which have insane performance.

 

go for the A8N32-SLI Deluxe, its made for gaming. maybe try and look into the MSI K8N Diamond Plus, prolly one of the best boards out there.

 

SLI is where u install 2 video cards that are the same brand and company (eg. 7900GT must go with a 7900GT, not a 7800GT or a 6800GT or anything else) then you insert an SLI connector to the 2 cards.

There's a Windows patch so that you don't get a decrease in performance with a dual-core CPU (it sends all data to a single core).

 

500-600 watts with a 30 amp +12v rail (this part is very important, otherwise your system won't even post) is recommended for SLI/CrossFire.

 

You can get a maximum performance gain of around 100%. As for quad-GPUs, they don't make sense-the amount you have to pay to get one far outweighs the minimal performance increase over 2 7800/7900 GTXs (512 Mb).

 

For an SLI setup you only need the two cards to have the same GPU, they don't have to be from the same company. You just have to use a release 80+ driver.

[MTV2]

500 watts with a 25 amp +12v rail is recommended for SLI/CrossFire.

 

You can get a maximum performance gain of around 100%. As for quad-GPUs, they don't make sense-the amount you have to pay to get one far outweighs the minimal performance increase over 2 7800/7900 GTXs (512 Mb).

 

For an SLI setup you only need the two cards to have the same GPU, they don't have to be from the same company. You just have to use a release 80+ driver.

u dont get a 2x increase in performance with 2 GPUs. its like dual core cpus. one card will render the backround will the other card renders the players and the actions.

 

 

Minimum 550 Watt for SLI mode system.

http://evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=512-P2-N575-AX&family=22

 

matters what kind of GPU it has. the better the gpu, the more watts and amps it needs.

 

thats what i meant, the same GPU >.< look at the example.

 

 

Cool, thanks. Those little .2GHz really make a price difference.

 

more GHz dont mean better. the reason they cost more is because its a higher quality cpu, with a bigger FBS. if that .2 ghz was just why the price was higher, no one would buy it, they'd just overclock another one to get those speeds.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

u dont get a 2x increase in performance with 2 GPUs. its like dual core cpus. one card will render the backround will the other card renders the players and the actions.

They render alternate frames. One renders the even frames, the other renders the odd frames. That's the default anyways, there are also modes so that one card will render one half of the screen and the other will render the rest of the screen. But when games start to be optimized and written for SLI, then we'll see close to double the performance of a single card.

[CountVerilucus]

Hail and Well Met!

 

First off, I want more power!! *Insert Tim Allen grunt here*

My current PC:

Intel Pentium 4-3.02Ghz

nVidia 6800GT AGP

2GB Ram

 

i wish my computer is that good.

[MdKnightR]

I personally recommend AMD processors, ASUS motherboards, and Crucial memory.

[Bob Lion54]

Yep MdKnightR, thats what I got. I ordered everything already. Half of it arrived yesterday, the rest is on the truck as I type on its way here!

 

Thanks again stingerhs and jmac7142! you guys really helped me out. By the way, this is what I went with-

Got 2 of these Bad Boys!

Board of Mothers

Double your pleasure, double your fun!

 

I also got 2 more Ram sticks. (1Gig each) That will pump me up to 4gigs! YAY

I got a power supply made for an SLI computer.

I also got a new hard drive. 320Gig Western Digital. It was on a One day sale for $120. I couldn't pass that up!

 

I can't wait until everything gets here! Should be in at about 3 O'clock. Now my only problem is what to do first when I get it set up! Thats a nice problem to have!

[stingerhs]

^^^^

get Oblivion.

[Bob Lion54]

Already got it! I might be able to pump the settings up to medium! heheh

 

Seriously, I can't wait to see how it plays on this.

 

I was telling my coworker about it. He was like "Holy crap, your building a super computer. You could launch a nuke from that thing." hehe

[MTV2]

^^^ u should have gotten the MSI K8N Diamond Plus...it's the best board out there...i pity you. w/e, the A8N32-SLI is a good board.

 

nice pick on the vid. cards. 2 is awsome.

same with the CPU, thats the one im getting.

[stingerhs]

actually, i have a single GF 7800 GS and an old Athlon 3200 XP (ie, not a duel-core nor a 64-bit), and i have the graphics settings maxed out on Oblivion. whenever i don't get HD paging issues, i can get a framerate well within 40-60 outdoors. hehe, whenever the HD starts paging like crazy, though, the framerate has a tendancy to drop quite a bit.

 

anyways, considering that you're running an SLI setup and that you have so much memory, you shouldn't even start running into those issues with the game.

[MdKnightR]

I also got a new hard drive. 320Gig Western Digital. It was on a One day sale for $120. I couldn't pass that up!

 

Its too bad you didn't get in on the sale that I took advantage of... WD 320 Gig drive for $110 with free shipping!

 

That does look like a badass system you're building.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

^^^ u should have gotten the MSI K8N Diamond Plus...it's the best board out there...i pity you. w/e, the A8N32-SLI is a good board.

 

nice pick on the vid. cards. 2 is awsome.

same with the CPU, thats the one im getting.

No it's not. The A8N32-SLI beat it in nearly every benchmark. And on the ones it where it didn't beat it, the ASUS A8R-MVP beat it.

[Bob Lion54]

Well, this thing was awsome for a day. Its been giving me some problems that I can't figure out. Maybe someone here will have the answer that I seek.

 

Anyway, I was playing Dungeons and Dragons Online with my guild. At about the two hour mark, my screen starts going black. It goes black for about a second then goes back to normal. This happens every few minutes. I tell my guildies and they suggest that one of my cards (or both) is overheating. They say I should try removing the side of my computer to let more air flow pass through. This does not help. So, I place my hand by the video card to feel the air. Sure enough, it does feel a bit warm. I know this is not exactly scientifc.

 

I had a personal fan that I placed near it to make sure the air flow was good. It does get a little warm while Im playing, but the air is moving through it very well. The next day, after leaving my computer off all night, I try to play again. I have the fan moving air, and every now and then check the temp. The airflow is good. It doesn't seem to get that hot. Sure enough, after about two hours of playing, the same thing occurs. One of my guildies suggest a program called Rivatuner to make the video card fans always run at full speed. I tried the program but could not make heads or tails of it. Anyway, I have the fan outside the case that is moving air very well. It should not, and to the best of my knowlege isn't, overheating.

 

I decide to try to see if one of my cards is bad. I take out the secondary card and have just the top card in and turn it on. My computer says it has to reboot to remove the SLI function. I do so. I decided to test it with Madden06 to see how it works. From the load screen I have problems. There are these two wierd green bars on the left side of the screen, with a filled in spot of green at one point. The best way to describe the overall look of the rest of the screen is that of a TV that is having trouble getting a clear signal. Thats not exactly right, but its the closest thing I can relate it to.

 

AH! So I do have a bad card! Problem solved. Lets try the other one!

 

I put the other card in. Try Madden. It runs great! No trouble at all. Then I decide to play DDO again, happy that my problems have come to an end. I was wrong.

 

After about 2-2.5 hours, I start to get the wierd LSD like streached textures. Like when all the colours from a building decide to streach all the way across the screen when you look in a particular direction. We have all seen this before. Ususally it means there is a driver problem or the Card is just not good enough to run the game. I know neither is the case here because I tried a different driver. No joy.

 

Anyway, after a bit of the LSD Syndrome, the screen once again starts randomly going black for a few second. When it does this I can not move by the way.

 

So I don't know whats going on. I highly doubt I got 2 bad cards. Could it just be overheating? I think I'm keeping the airflow good. If thats not the case, the only other thing I can think of is a bad Motherboard; but why does it somewhat work with one card and not the other? Also, why would it work at all if it was a motherboard problem? I'm at my wits end here!

 

Any help is appriciated!

 

EDIT:

I just figured out how to check my cards temprature. It idles at about 51°C, So I'm begging to be even more certain its not a over heating issue....

[stingerhs]

which version of the Forceware Drivers are you running??

[Bob Lion54]

Currently, the latest 84.21.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Currently, the latest 84.21.

Try the 84.43 betas:

 

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_rel70betadriver.html

[SpaceAlex]

Well, there just might be a possibility that both of your cards are faulty. Some brands (XFX, EVGA, BFG) sent out a couple of faulty cards. Nvidia made an offical statement (can't find the link anymore) that the problem is the vertex shader and maybe even the memory controller clocked too high.

 

So, if your cards shipped overclocked they might be broken. The newer samples are not supposed to have this problem anymore. However, it is possible that your vendor sold you old and faulty samples.

 

Really, everything that you described suggests that there's something wrong with your cards. You can search Guru3d forums (http://www.guru3d.com) for 7900gt and you will see that many people have similar problems. The only solution for them was to RMA the card (or two cards).

 

If your card is overclocked, try lowering the frequencies down to stock speeds (450mhz, 1.35ghz, i belive) and test your games.

 

You can also try a different driver. I doubt that will help though.

[Bob Lion54]

@ SpaceAlex-

Thanks for the info. I will certainly look into that. My cards are not overclocked though.

 

Try the 84.43 betas:

 

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_rel70betadriver.html

Well, its worth a shot. Thanks.