Exile Female (CANON)

[Nema_Suneimi]

You know, Flashblade has done a much better job than I have. At least he's done a lot more work.

 

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/10999.html

 

Try this one.

 

 

Ah, thanks for pointing that one out. I was doing "sith head" and "sith eyes" in my searches so Flashblade didn't come up. Looking forward to a DS female play-through!

[Jediphile]

Personally I think it's a shame, because I thought the male Exile plot was stronger. It had the Brianna/Atris "betrayal" which is now lost, and Mical was actually more interesting to me as Carth's secret agent.

 

Instead the official story now gets stuck with Mical, we have to accept Sion's love-sick nonsense for the female Exile as true (totally undermining his image as an unforgiving,hard-nosed Sith lord), and Brianna apparently just gets to die along with all her sisters, her potential totally spoiled - she's so uninteresting that the female Exile doesn't even get a chance to meet her upon her return to Telos...

[Arátoeldar]

That's why I call the EU "silly" because the word 'canon' shouldn't really be used in regards to the EU at all. I don't know what EU rules they have now, but my admittedly old-fashioned (mid nineties) understanding is the only 'canon' for Star Wars is the Movies, the Movie Scripts, and the Radio Plays... all else is 'apocrypha'.

 

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, but this is my understanding.

 

Ok I can understand that the EU is not canon. However shouldn't the Clone Wars Cartoon series be considered canon?

[mimic666]

To me no but maybe Arátoeldar everything Star Wars always starts off in space "Clone Wars" doesn't, but also the end of Vol 2 ends off when Episode III Starts so I guess so.

[Char Ell]

Instead the official story now gets stuck with Mical, we have to accept Sion's love-sick nonsense for the female Exile as true (totally undermining his image as an unforgiving,hard-nosed Sith lord), and Brianna apparently just gets to die along with all her sisters, her potential totally spoiled - she's so uninteresting that the female Exile doesn't even get a chance to meet her upon her return to Telos...

to which I quote

Of course. They're not telling you how to play the game. That is the misunderstanding people are having with this whole thing.

I think this statement pretty much sums it up.

Whether this is official or not, LA can't tell anyone how to play their games. Canon or no, my Exile will always be DSF, and my Revan will always be DSM.

I expected nothing less from 2005's Most Evil Ahtonaut (and probably 2006's too)

[mjpb3]

Of course. They're not telling you how to play the game. That is the misunderstanding people are having with this whole thing.

No, they may not be telling me how to play my game(s), but it does feel as if someone is hinting to me that the way I play is the WRONG way.

[Char Ell]

^^^

I hear what you're saying, mjpb3, but TSL didn't make the choice of Revan's gender or alignment for you. The choice was still yours to make. As long as future KotOR games allow us to make the choice on this stuff then I'm not going to worry about what the SW history books say because all things considered, there is very little said about Revan and the Exile in SW chronicles in comparison to PT and OT characters. It's not like there are books and movies about Revan and the Exile along with the video games. It's the video games themselves that get the most attention, not NEGD or the TSL Chronicles. But like I said, as long as the KotOR games allow the player to make the choice where Revan and the Exile are concerned then why should we sweat the small stuff, right?

 

But if the next KotOR doesn't allow the player to choose (assuming Revan and/or the Exile are involved in the story)... I would be truly disappointed if that were the case.

[Jae Onasi]

Statement on the new 6 degrees of Star Wars Canon

 

We, at WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia, wish to clear up the confusion of ‘Canon’ in Star Wars by instituting a new classification system on how to rank the different Star Wars and Star Wars EU materials. This will replace the Canon-a, b, and c system, which was becoming just too confusing, resulting in many emails from forum administrators and moderators who were ‘having to deal with too damn many threads on arguments over Canon’.

 

1st degree Canon shall be The Movies. Radio adaptations, so long as they include voices from the Original Actors (and Actresses) shall also be 1st degree Canon. The Screenplays are also 1st degree Canon, but only if George Lucas put a ‘GL’ on every page. The official soundtracks are 1st degree Canon, because John Williams has included the use of both the bassoon and the triangle in his music, and quite possibly the krummhorn. Anything spoken by George Lucas is first degree Canon, including those more mundane statements like ‘I want to order a pizza’ and ‘I have to find the nearest restroom.’

 

2nd degree Canon shall include those radio adaptations that deviate from the script slightly but still maintain the ‘True Spirit’ of the movies. Those radio adaptations that include the voices of Harrison Ford or Liam Neeson shall automatically be changed to 1st degree Canon, because their voices are really sexy. Those adaptations that include excess amounts of Jar-Jar Binks or Ewok cuteness shall automatically be reduced to 6th degree Canon or less.

 

3rd degree Canon shall include any books that George Lucas decides shall be 3rd degree, which is pretty much everything else not in the 1st and 2nd degrees. It’s his world—if he wants to say a book is 1st degree or 6th degree, we shall bow to his greater wisdom. The exception are the Vong books, which shall be reduced to 6th degree or the 9th circle of Dante’s Inferno, whichever comes last. All Star Wars games are 3rd degree Canon. The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon. We hereby declare all permutations of Revan and Exile to be Canon, because trying to pick just one is really p!$$ing off the fans. The Star Wars Lego games would be 4th degree Canon because of the ‘cutesy factor’, except for the fact that my son really likes the games, so they stay at 3rd degree.

 

4th degree Canon includes any comic books. Graphic novels remain at 3rd degree because ‘graphic novel’ sounds more cool than ‘comic book.’ The exception is the Knights of the Old Republic comic book series, which is destined to become a Graphic Novel when bound together, and because they’ve drawn Zayne Carrick really cute. It’s at least 3rd degree, and we might even make that series 2nd degree if sales continue to be good.

 

5th degree Canon includes all fan-fiction, unless they are “Really Good,” which, by our definition, is anything with over 1,000 views on LucasForums or over 15 thumbs-ups on kotorfanmedia. If they’re “Really Good”, then they can, at the option of the administrators, moderators, machievelli, or the author, move to 4th degree. The exception is if the spam-per-view ratio approaches 1:82, in which case the fanfic shall be declared ‘spammy’ and the fic drops to 6th degree. Action figures are 5th degree Canon, unless they involve Yoda, Han Solo, or Luke Skywalker. These are 1st degree Canon because I like them and because Frank Oz rules.

 

6th degree Canon includes any speculative posts on any forums. It also includes any non-speculative posts, comments, jokes, pictures, and other written, visual, or aural media. Anything else not already specified shall be 6th degree Canon, unless the author finds something she really likes, in which case the Degree of Canon may be altered accordingly. Forum posts that are written by administrators or moderators shall be whatever Degree of Canon they desire, because the author feels the need to suck up, unless George Lucas declares otherwise, because his 1st degree is more equal than everyone else’s 1st degree.

 

We hope this clears up any confusion about Canon. If you have any further questions, please send an email to our help center at ‘we won’t answer it anyway.idiocy'. We will do our best to make sure that the answer to your questions are answered with as much obfuscation as possible, preferably by someone who does not even speak your language.

 

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

Caveat: This is not directed at anyone in particular, but at the idea that there not only is 'canon' but now 'levels of canon.' In my personal view of the world, there is only 'Lucas' and 'Everyone Else' if we have to make that distinction in the first place. I'm particularly amused at the idea that we're even using the word 'canon' to describe all this, as if this carries the same importance as holy scriptures of the major religions....

I say, just enjoy the games the way you want.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

*Spits water all over keyboard!*

[Shem]

No, they may not be telling me how to play my game(s), but it does feel as if someone is hinting to me that the way I play is the WRONG way.

Then I think you're taking it too seriously then.

[mjpb3]

Then I think you're taking it too seriously then.

Perhaps. Or perhaps I am one of many who don't like being told that no matter what I did/do in my game(s) I am playing it wrong.

 

Hmmm, yeah I can see how that is such a light subject to just let go.

 

I won't write what I am really thinking, so I'll just let this drop.

[Shem]

Perhaps. Or perhaps I am one of many who don't like being told that no matter what I did/do in my game(s) I am playing it wrong.

 

Hmmm, yeah I can see how that is such a light subject to just let go.

 

I won't write what I am really thinking, so I'll just let this drop.

The biggest reason why I believe you shouldn’t take it seriously is because of comics and stories written about the KOTOR games. I do recall reading about the characters of K1 on the official site...

 

(to list a few)

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/carthonasi/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/bastilashan/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/canderousordo/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/missionvao/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/zaalbar/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/calonord/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthbandon/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthmalak/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/admiralkarath/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/davikkang/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/juhani/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/joleebindo/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/t3m4/index.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/hk47/index.html

 

 

...and noticing how vague the talk about Revan. I do know why of course because they didn't want to imply anything like gender, race, and what path Revan chose just in case it offended anyone (just like it is doing), but I do admit I was a little frustrated with the storylines at times and wished there was a bio of Revan and more to the KOTOR story.

 

In order to do that, you had to make a Canon Revan. And I believe the intention wasn’t to make people feel like they were playing it the wrong way, far from it. If that was the case, writing a Canon Revan would have been done a long time ago. I believe it was delayed because they didn’t want to offend anyone.

 

Just remember it’s all make believe anyway, and the games are made so you can enjoy it and it is also designed so you can make your own mods to continue the enjoyment. The comics are done for reader enjoyment of KOTOR and in order to do that and make them good, a Canon Revan had to be made.

[RedHawke]

In order to do that, you had to make a Canon Revan. And I believe the intention wasn’t to make people feel like they were playing it the wrong way, far from it. If that was the case, writing a Canon Revan would have been done a long time ago. I believe it was delayed because they didn’t want to offend anyone.

 

The comics are done for reader enjoyment of KOTOR and in order to do that and make them good, a Canon Revan had to be made.

The issue with this Shem is the usage of the word 'canon'… A guideline for Revan for fellow EU writers I know is a necessary evil, but when you use the word 'canon' this implies exactly what mjpb3 and others take offence with. The usage of 'canon' means that others will take this as the only way the game should be played, and will correct or harass those who dare to use "her" in reference to Revan.

 

Hence, this is why I call the EU silly, especially when this kind of silly thing rears its ugly head. All of the EU is technically 'apocrypha' anyway.

 

*Looks at Prime staring ominously in this direction... Put that hatchet down!*

 

[Shem]

The issue with this Shem is the usage of the word 'canon'… A guideline for Revan for fellow EU writers I know is a necessary evil, but when you use the word 'canon' this implies exactly what mjpb3 and others take offence with. The usage of 'canon' means that others will take this as the only way the game should be played, and will correct or harass those who dare to use "her" in reference to Revan.

I understand your point. And I hope I haven't sound insensitive to people's feelings on the matter when I say not to take it seriously.

 

I do see the problem with people thinking they have to correct you what Revan was (Force Alignment, race, gender, etc), and it's too bad that someone would actually throw that into someone's face. That's another reason why we shouldn't take this personally and remind them nicely (it may be hard at times if the person was rude about it) that Revan is a choice in the KOTOR game and if that wasn't the case, those choices wouldn't be there to begin with. It wouldn't be a role playing game if it didn't do that.

 

I testify strongly that nobody should ever feel guilty about how they choose their Revan or Exile in either KOTOR games because these games are for our enjoyment. Revan and the Exile are who you make them to be and don't let someone else tell you otherwise.

[Jae Onasi]

The authors of EU stuff could solve the problem by saying "in my novel, I've chosen to make Revan DSF. YMMV." Or whatever they've chosen.

Seriously, why have a 'canon' character, anyway?

I could maybe see LA wanting to say "We like it when 'The Good Guys Win,' so we're going to prefer LS characters. However, the determination of gender is up to each author in those situations where there is a choice because of the game."

As long as the author keeps it consistent within a specific book/series, I'm happy. I think specifying a gender/alignment actually limits the creativity outside of the game. There are plenty of amazing fics out there written for a DSF Revan or DSM Exile. There are plenty of continuity breaks between series (and even in the movies themselves), so I don't think changing gender/alignment would be earth-shattering. Different, yes, life-altering, no.

[mjpb3]

I do see the problem with people thinking they have to correct you what Revan was (Force Alignment, race, gender, etc), and it's too bad that someone would actually throw that into someone's face.

That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

 

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

[Jediphile]

That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

 

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

 

Whatever you want. I've always played and referred to Revan as male, but several people have referred to Revan as female, and I'm not about to tell them they can't. They have every right to do so, because I'm not about to stop referring to both Revan and Exile as male either.

[Nema_Suneimi]

I always start out my posts with "my female Revan" or "my female Exile" and then go from there.

 

I was kind of upset with the canonical male Revan because I love the Carth romance so much, but now I just imagine that if I were in the SW universe (I have a characterization built up and everything), it means Carth would be all available for *me*. I wonder if I can mod myself into the games...

[jaredhimself31]

I checked in my copy of the NEW ESSENTIAL STAR WARS CHRONOLOGY and they only refer to the Exile once as a Jedi who was cast out of the order. and thats it they never actually state the Exile's gender. And the only characters that are recognized in that certain passage are Mandalore, T3 and HL-47. none of the other characters(ie Briana or Mical are recognized as official cannon at least not in the CHRONOLOGY)

 

But if you go by what is on the Cover and such its usuall a LSM Exile with a Blue blade.

But thats exactly the problem with Cannon related topics unless its related to the two trilogy's alot of it's based on people's opinions on what is and what isn't cannon. So its bound to create some interesting debates as it usually does

 

Please use the "edit this" function to the lower right instead of double-posting. ~ ChAiNz.2da

[Shem]

That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

 

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

I always try to make sure if I refer to Revan's gender, I refer to Revan is he/she. That way I'm keeping the door open to what Revan can be. You can never go wrong if you refer to Revan as he/she, or his/her.

 

Like...

 

Darth Revan and his/her apprentice, Darth Malak. It works great and nobody can throw that in your face.

[Char Ell]

The authors of EU stuff could solve the problem by saying "in my novel, I've chosen to make Revan DSF. YMMV." Or whatever they've chosen.

If there were multiple publications that had Revan and/or the Exile with varying genders and alignments then people would be confused. I think we will always have an element who clamors for a set gender/alignment for these characters and won't be satisfied until they have one.

I think specifying a gender/alignment actually limits the creativity outside of the game. There are plenty of amazing fics out there written for a DSF Revan or DSM Exile.

While I agree this limits creativity I don't think limits such as this are bad per se, just natural. What if LA/LL were to support a "parallel universe" approach for this particular segment of SW history? In this scenario Revan could be DSF, DSM, LSF or LSM. Writers would be advised to pick one and stick with it but should also have set guidelines about when the parallel story lines come back together. That may be workable for one character but when you throw in a second from the same time period into the mix (Exile) then you have to consider all the permutations this would create. For every Revan you would need to have four Exiles. Talk about a management nightmare. I don't think many people would go for such a concept. People just want the one history record to refer to. And besides the EU has enough continuity issues as it is.

There are plenty of continuity breaks between series (and even in the movies themselves), so I don't think changing gender/alignment would be earth-shattering. Different, yes, life-altering, no.

Let us not forget the power of the retcon!

So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

I think you already know that most people already have their Revan and Exile's gender locked in. I try to avoid the whole gender question by using their respective names instead of a gender descriptor like he, she, or he/she. This practice can be challenging and weird sounding at times but it's what I like to do. For example: Revan ignited Revan's lightsaber and issued a challenge to Darth Malak, Revan's former apprentice.

[Point Man]

I've never had any problem thinking of Revan or the Exile in any of the possible permutations. It's just a role-playing game where I get to play the character in any way I want, and I play it in all the different ways. I couldn't imagine wanting to play it only one way. That's the great thing about RPG's. You can live the experience different ways.

[The Source]

After reading that Wikipedia outline above, I had to burn my computer screne. Who the hell is smoking what over there. I think we should make a Star Wars: Fan-Fiction with Jesus in it, and make sure it gets over 1,000 hits. Jesus will become canon. Lol...

 

What happened to the days when 'canon' was just from the movies, movie-books, and radio adaptations?

 

I agree with Onasi's last statements, and here it is:

In my personal view of the world, there is only 'Lucas' and 'Everyone Else' if we have to make that distinction in the first place.

Canon = George Lucas

Extra Entertainment = EU = Everyone Else

[Jae Onasi]

I didn't need to smoke anything to come up with the WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia entry. All I needed was a lot of insomnia, excess amounts of caffeine, some sugar, and a little too much time on my hands.

Jesus can be whatever degree(s) of Canon that He desires.

[The Source]

Lol... Go Jesus!

 

Wow. You must have not slept for days.