Abstinence

[Windu Chi]

I got it from Mira the grot (play Sith Lords) and I haven't heard it said to the male PC but somehow I think she had a diffirent orfice in mind.

What do you mean, Nancy?

[Nancy Allen``]

How much do you know about the Sith Lords? Well, the basic story is how the galaxy is falling to evil, the Jedi are all but gone, and you, as an exile and scorned by many has arrived on a mining facility on a crippled Ebon Hawk, near death. One of the storylines is how there's a bounty on Jedi posted, you find out, by Goto. Well Mira is one of the bounty hunters after you, but after being betrayed she joins your side. Talk to her with high light side points and you get the following conversation.

 

Mira: Oh, hey. Uh...heh...can I ask you something?

Exile: Why are you looking at me like that?

Mira: Your face...you, well, you have this glow. I mean not a real glow, but...It's like you're calm, at peace? But it's more than that. You haven't been chewing on spice have you?

Exile: I don't poison my body with spice.

Mira: Okay, maybe not spice. Maybe someone just jammed a power converter up your ion engine and switched it on full.

 

If this is the same line for male exile there's really only one place she could be referring to, and evidence if any more was needed after ROTS that Star Wars isn't just for kiddies anymore.

[Windu Chi]

How much do you know about the Sith Lords? Well, the basic story is how the galaxy is falling to evil, the Jedi are all but gone, and you, as an exile and scorned by many has arrived on a mining facility on a crippled Ebon Hawk, near death. One of the storylines is how there's a bounty on Jedi posted, you find out, by Goto. Well Mira is one of the bounty hunters after you, but after being betrayed she joins your side. Talk to her with high light side points and you get the following conversation.

 

Mira: Oh, hey. Uh...heh...can I ask you something?

Exile: Why are you looking at me like that?

Mira: Your face...you, well, you have this glow. I mean not a real glow, but...It's like you're calm, at peace? But it's more than that. You haven't been chewing on spice have you?

Exile: I don't poison my body with spice.

Mira: Okay, maybe not spice. Maybe someone just jammed a power converter up your ion engine and switched it on full.

 

If this is the same line for male exile there's really only one place she could be referring to, and evidence if any more was needed after ROTS that Star Wars isn't just for kiddies anymore.

Are you inferring she is a lesbian?

It is not same line for the male exile.

I could never could get involved with her

when I played, KOTOR II.

 

Yeah, I hope if Lucasarts makes KOTOR III

that it will be more adult.

Also I will be glad if any new Star Wars games will be more violent and realisted.

But that's another topic for discussion.

[Nancy Allen``]

Nup, same line for both. Just checked. I think the inferrence is a euphemism for...for a donkey. Yeah that'll do.

[Windu Chi]

Nup, same line for both. Just checked. I think the inferrence is a euphemism for...for a donkey. Yeah that'll do.

Oh! Ok!

I was thinking that it was more to discover in Sith Lords dialogue.

Oh well!

[Nancy Allen``]

Um, just in case you wanted to go back and look, there's a...relationship, possibly romantic, between Revan and Juhani.

[Windu Chi]

Um, just in case you wanted to go back and look, there's a...relationship, possibly romantic, between Revan and Juhani.

Thanks for the info, Nancy.

When I played that game I ended the game with a romantic relationship with, Bastila.

[CapNColostomy]

I say sex with monkeys, squirrels, and the like can be quite fun. You show me where the harm is! Everyone I've ever met that was supposedly proud of their abstinence choice was far too fat to be bothered with chasing down a monkey, squirrels, and the like, or simply too poor to pay for the services a woman can (and will, given the right dollar ammount) provide.

 

I say let's get this **** over with already. **** anything that isn't nailed down. Where I come from, we call genital warts French Ticklers or speed bumps.

[Windu Chi]

I say sex with monkeys, squirrels, and the like can be quite fun. You show me where the harm is! Everyone I've ever met that was supposedly proud of their abstinence choice was far too fat to be bothered with chasing down a monkey, squirrels, and the like, or simply too poor to pay for the services a woman can (and will, given the right dollar ammount) provide.

 

I say let's get this **** over with already. **** anything that isn't nailed down. Where I come from, we call genital warts French Ticklers or speed bumps.

Your joking, right?

Of course you can't be serious.

[Q]

^^^

Of course he is! He's the spokesman for Valtrex!

[Ray Jones]

I believe their reason is jealousy.

I'd say the reason is a slighty misconception of human sexuality maybe due to (parental) misinformation and such. To say it's disgusting and causing the end of the world is just as stupid as saying abstinence is stupid.

 

My main point is, while one can decide not to have sex (whether for a certain amount of time, or until marriage, or maybe just to wait for 'someone special' is completely another question), another person may feel good with the idea to have sex.

As I see it, most abstinence people fail to recognise the fact, that people, who are having sex or making sexual experiences of any kind (there's so much more to human sexuality than the 'stick the dick' event) before they are married, are not having 5 hour all hole porno **** threesomes every day. That's a blatant misconception of human sexuality and often used for dumb buzzword argumentation as we see in this thread. I have no problem with people waiting for the "right moment" or whatever, as I did exactly the same, but arguing with words like "disgusting" and "stupid" is simply pulling a straw because other (valid) arguments like pregancy (which is not only valid for teens) and deseases are opposed by (valid) counterarguments like contraceptives, safer sex methods, non-promiscuous behaviour and maybe most important: proper education for the younglings.

I also think that most of them deny the fact that there are a lot of people who are not teens, having sex without being married. I am err..*cough*notthirtyyet*cough* and not married. I had my first time when I was 15. And be sure, I did and do it as often as I can (read: because I *have to* ). And still, I've had sex with only three girls, two until 3 months ago. And still, there were times where I had no sex for more than a year.

 

 

 

PS: Err, CapN, Sir.. I think giving the right amount of tied to the table will cause them provide you some most delightful services, too XD

[Dagobahn Eagle]

**** when you're ready for a kid and STDs. Plain and simple. I've got enough friends raising kids by themselves to have been scared into abstinence for a long time:D (being a virgin helps, too :Dx2).

 

I have nothing against people choosing abstinence, but I DO have something against people who choose it presenting themselves as somehow morally superior to those who do not.

I can't hear you from up here on this high horse:p.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that Hitler was abstinent:p.

 

I believe their reason is jealousy.

Suit yourself.

[Emperor Devon]

And yet you tell them they behave disgusting if they have sex before they get married?

 

Whether I want to hear people's opinions or not is unrelated to my opinions about their opinions.

 

"By modern standards"?

 

I was reffering back to those old days before marriage. Goodness knows how long ago those were. Humans most likely lived in small huts or caves then, rarely bathed, didn't have toilets, rarely were able to clean their teeth, and wore the hides of dead animals that were not entirely devoid of rotting flesh. I don't find that very appealing. By modern standards.

 

It just means one thing: having sexual experience before getting married.

 

If they don't get the negative effects of sex before marriage, good for them.

 

Just like when you choose the wrong spouse.

 

You cannot deny that people having sex with one partner would reduce the amount of STDs that go around.

 

Don't create a society which says "sex stinks".

 

For teens, it does.

 

Sure. Genital mutilation of the young girls and castration of the boys would have the same positive effect, don't you think?

 

I agree completely. Sure, we'd all become extinct, but that's not much of a tradeoff.

 

Err? The "very happy memory"-argumentation was yours, not mine. I was simply asking if you were addressing defloration with that. Also, don't you think that while you are losing virginity, you're not very abstinent, eh?

 

Hence why I support abstinence until marriage rather than being a virgin for life.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

For teens, it does.

Kudos.

 

Whether I want to hear people's opinions or not is unrelated to my opinions about their opinions.

[Mace MacLeod]

Hm. I thought someone who'd had kids might have an opinion on this.

You got that right.

And before anyone starts with the 'you're young, you don't understand love yet' bull ****, I'm going to say this: I've heard it all before. So save us all some time here and shut te **** up. I've heard the speeches. I've heard the thinly velied 'you're too much of an immautre dumb**** to understand love' comments. They piss me off. Teenagers are just as capable as knowing love as people who are 20+.

No, they bloody aren't. This is why teenagers aren't allowed to vote or buy booze.

 

Look dude, no offence, but this is something that maturity really does affect. I've read your posts in the KotOR forums, so I know that you are a reasonably intelligent, thoughtful and articulate human being who deserves respect on his own merits, but the fact is that you (being 16) are still a work in progress. The "you" that's reading this is an entirely different "you" that will peer back from the mirror in 5-10 years. Your body is not yet fully developed, your brain is not yet fully developed, therefore your mind is not yet fully developed. I'm sorry to say that this simply isn't something you can appreciate until you've lived through it. Write this down and read it to yourself in 10 years: You'll be saying; "Damn, that opinionated prick Mace MacLeod was right after all!"

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that Hitler was abstinent

This is actually debatable. Evidence does suggest that he did in fact indulge in sex, both with Eva Braun and various Berlin hookers who subsequently met up with the Gestapo and were never heard from again. But sexual dysfunction was the least of Hitler's psychological problems. Anyway, this is off topic.

 

From all I've heard from girls it hurts the first time and is generally uncomfortable.

Look up the word "foreplay". It's more than just grabbing her boobs and saying; "Honk Honk, here it comes!!"

 

using a public toilet,

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Hey, can you hear me back there in the 1920's? STD=Sexually Transmitted Disease. It's a disease that's transmitted by sexual contact. That's why it's called a Sexually Transmitted Disease, not a Toilet Seat Transmitted Disease.

 

I'm sorry, but child abuse is a personal choice. A child has no say in whether you beat them or not. You decide to do it. It's your choice.

There is nothing on this planet that pisses me off more than idiots who smack their kids around because they're too f!cking stupid to figure out how to raise them properly. My wife and I were both raised with corporal punishment, and we swore we'd never do that to our daughter. Not that we haven't been tempted, but parenting requires patience, restraint and common sense that sadly seems to be lacking in too many people.

 

[Main Rant]

 

I feel very, very sorry for people who think sex is just for making babies or catching diseases. They've missed the entire best part. Sex rules. Sex is great. Forget for a minute about hookers, child abuse and seedy porno, sex can be just for fun. And it can be great fun. Sex can be happy, joyous and spiritual. Sex between people who really love each other can be great too, but if you get married thinking that "clitoris" is a city in Bosnia, your honeymoon definitely won't be all it could be. And the fact you love each other won't make it any better. If you're "waiting for marriage", hey, more power to you. But your problem is this: What do you like in bed? Do you like vanilla or rocky road? Do you like heading down south or not? Is there something you can't live without in the bedroom? If you've never bothered to find out, you might just wind up marrying someone totally sexually incompatable. And then you have a big problem, because sure, sex isn't everything, but it is a big part of mature adult relationships. It's more than enough to screw up your marriage. It behooves you to know yourself: what you like, what you need, and what limits you won't cross. And there's no way to know that but by doing it.

 

Here's the rub: there's another purpose for sex that nobody seems to want to talk about. Bonding. Sex can (and often does) create very powerful emotional bonds between the partners, and there's a theory that this is another evolutional adaptation that God/Mother Nature added to human sex. Why? Have a kid. Raising children is a very long and stressful process, and it's thought that sex feels so good and creates the ties it does to bond the parents together so their offspring have the best possible chance, being cared for by two people.

 

Finally, let me just say that in some people (who shall go nameless and aren't necessarily represented in this thread) I detect the distinct smell of bitterness and frustration. There are a few posters who seem to think that we should all wind up celibate virgins, hunched over our computers, knee-deep in crusty socks and in a state of perpetual frothing contempt for anyone who really does know how to go out and get laid, while we write irate posts and look around our bedrooms full of action figures and empty pizza boxes. Why? The simplest possible reason: If they can't have any fun, then no one else should either.

 

I have been a frustrated celibate lonely single guy.

I have also been a strung-out nightclub musician, indiscriminately screwing anything that moved.

I have also been a happily married man with an active and satisfying sex life.

 

The last two beat the hell out of the first.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

And before anyone starts with the 'you're young, you don't understand love yet' bull ****, I'm going to say this: I've heard it all before. So save us all some time here and shut te **** up. I've heard the speeches. I've heard the thinly velied 'you're too much of an immautre dumb**** to understand love' comments. They piss me off. Teenagers are just as capable as knowing love as people who are 20+.

Sure. However, the 14-year old's definition of and experience with love is different from that of the 40-year old, heck, even of the 20-year old.

 

This is actually debatable. Evidence does suggest that he did in fact indulge in sex, both with Eva Braun and various Berlin hookers who subsequently met up with the Gestapo and were never heard from again. But sexual dysfunction was the least of Hitler's psychological problems. Anyway, this is off topic.

 

Look up the word "foreplay". It's more than just grabbing her boobs and saying; "Honk Honk, here it comes!!"

Yup it is, to a lot of people.

 

Except I suppose most lovers out there use private organs for sex, not breasts:p...

 

I feel very, very sorry for people who think sex is just for making babies or catching diseases. They've missed the entire best part. Sex rules. Sex is great.

[Grumbles] Next he'll say divorce is OK if the spouse is being abusive[/Grumbles]

 

Here's the rub: there's another purpose for sex that nobody seems to want to talk about. Bonding. Sex can (and often does) create very powerful emotional bonds between the partners, and there's a theory that this is another evolutional adaptation that God/Mother Nature added to human sex. Why? Have a kid. Raising children is a very long and stressful process, and it's thought that sex feels so good and creates the ties it does to bond the parents together so their offspring have the best possible chance, being cared for by two people.

Probably true. And hey, most children are accidents anyhow (I've only met one person who's told me she was not), yet most grow up to lead happy lives.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't have sex unless it's for a kid, but I am old-fashioned enough to say that you should wait until you're with someone you've been with for a while and are ready to have a kid with. Not necessarily 'till you're married (marriage is no guarantee of life-long bond anymore), but until you're feeling safe about bearing a kid. There are enough single mothers out there as there are, to put it that way:(.

 

Finally, let me just say that in some people (who shall go nameless and aren't necessarily represented in this thread) I detect the distinct smell of bitterness and frustration. There are a few posters who seem to think that we should all wind up celibate virgins, hunched over our computers, knee-deep in crusty socks and in a state of perpetual frothing contempt for anyone who really does know how to go out and get laid, while we write irate posts and look around our bedrooms full of action figures and empty pizza boxes. Why? The simplest possible reason: If they can't have any fun, then no one else should either.

Very likely true in a lot of cases. But not in me. I'm a bit of an exception, as I've got, for one, five friends who've gotten raped. So sex has this negative connotation to me.

 

Sure, some people have this "if I can't have it, others shouldn't either"-feeling. But it's a bit like not having masturbated, I think - to be frank, you don't know what you're missing, so never having masterbated and being against it isn't necessarily the result of "missing" the feeling of it, but more of being ignorant of how good it feels.

 

It's a bit the same way with followers of mythology who feel sorry for atheists for "not experiencing the joy of being with God".

 

So to round off: I'm not for virginity and abstinence out of bitterness or envy. But it's also quite possible that after the first time, my view will have changed entirely;).

 

Look dude, no offence, but this is something that maturity really does affect. I've read your posts in the KotOR forums, so I know that you are a reasonably intelligent, thoughtful and articulate human being who deserves respect on his own merits, but the fact is that you (being 16) are still a work in progress. The "you" that's reading this is an entirely different "you" that will peer back from the mirror in 5-10 years. Your body is not yet fully developed, your brain is not yet fully developed, therefore your mind is not yet fully developed. I'm sorry to say that this simply isn't something you can appreciate until you've lived through it. Write this down and read it to yourself in 10 years: You'll be saying; "Damn, that opinionated prick Mace MacLeod was right after all!"

It's amazing, though, how you consider your current age to be oh-so-intelligent now, but not in 5-10 years.

 

As a 20-year old who's turning 21 on the 7th, I already find myself already starting to look down on 14-year olds, thinking them "children" more than I did only two years ago. I wonder how I'll feel about us 20-year olds in 5-10 years:p.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Hey, can you hear me back there in the 1920's? STD=Sexually Transmitted Disease. It's a disease that's transmitted by sexual contact. That's why it's called a Sexually Transmitted Disease, not a Toilet Seat Transmitted Disease.

The "S" stands for "**** house". Don't they tell you anything these days in school:confused:?

[Emperor Devon]

And the fact you love each other won't make it any better.

 

I would say that sex during a honeymoon is probably a nice addition, but not an essential one. I'd pick (and marry for) love any day.

 

And then you have a big problem, because sure, sex isn't everything, but it is a big part of mature adult relationships. It's more than enough to screw up your marriage.

 

There's no denying that sex can bond people to each other, but again, I do not think it should be an essential part of marriage. A nice addition that one can live without, nothing more.

 

There are a few posters who seem to think that we should all wind up celibate virgins, hunched over our computers, knee-deep in crusty socks and in a state of perpetual frothing contempt for anyone who really does know how to go out and get laid,

 

The room I'm typing this in is quite clean, Mace. I hope you weren't reffering to me.

[Nancy Allen``]

Sex really is overrated. Yeah it's enjoyable, but some one night stand or something really is nothing compared to a relationship, it doesn't have to be a sexual one, with someone you know and like.

[Mace MacLeod]

Except I suppose most lovers out there use private organs for sex, not breasts

Breasts are actually included in there too, dude. Women actually can experience sexual satisfaction and even orgasm just from stimulating their breasts. Yes, it happens. Oh man...count yourself lucky that guys like me are here to point stuff like this out to you.

Sure. However, the 14-year old's definition of and experience with love is different from that of the 40-year old, heck, even of the 20-year old.

Of course it is. But the 20 year-old and the 40 year-old have maturity and experience to draw upon that the 14 year-old certainly doesn't.

[Grumbles] Next he'll say divorce is OK if the spouse is being abusive[/Grumbles]

Sarcasm...? Not really sure about that bit. Anyway, yes I would, absolutely. If everyone in the world was smart and gutsy enough to dump thoughtless, abusive partners the world would be a far better place.

Sure, some people have this "if I can't have it, others shouldn't either"-feeling. But it's a bit like not having masturbated, I think - to be frank, you don't know what you're missing, so never having masterbated and being against it isn't necessarily the result of "missing" the feeling of it, but more of being ignorant of how good it feels.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Oh boy. Eagle, eagle, eagle. If you take nothing else away from my post, take this: One used condom wrapper is worth a thousand crusty socks.

It's amazing, though, how you consider your current age to be oh-so-intelligent now, but not in 5-10 years.

 

As a 20-year old who's turning 21 on the 7th, I already find myself already starting to look down on 14-year olds, thinking them "children" more than I did only two years ago. I wonder how I'll feel about us 20-year olds in 5-10 years.

The older you get, the less drastic the change is. The teenage years are the most obvious demonstration, because you're going from childhood to full maturity. Imagine yourself as 8, then 13, then 18. Big changes, aren't they? I'm 32, and believe it or not, I'm not looking down on The Doctor for being 16, and I don't look down on you for being 20. I just have the benefit of having been 16 and 20 before. Dude, one of the horrible, horrible things about growing up is realizing your parents were right about a lot of things that you swore they were totally full of sh!t about before.

Something about my Hitler bit

Maybe I'm posting this too soon and you've edited your post, but that didn't come through. Anyway, still OT.

Very likely true in a lot of cases. But not in me. I'm a bit of an exception, as I've got, for one, five friends who've gotten raped. So sex has this negative connotation to me.

And I also have female friends who have been raped as well. It is a terrible crime, but some of them have come back, dealt with those issues and have resumed very active and pleasurable sex lives. It's awful they had to deal with what they had to deal with, but ultimately they overcame what had happened to them. I sincerely hope your friends recover from what were undoubtable terrible crimes which weren't their fault.

 

And this is really what I've been wanting to say all along. It's terrible sex is used as a weapon, because it doesn't have to be like that. I think one of the biggest failings of our society is to demonize sex as evil, sick, dirty, unclean, and immoral. Because it really can be wonderful. It can be great, life-affirming, healing, and even though some sick people do sick things and despicable crimes are committed with alarming frequency, the simple act of sex itself can still be wonderful. It can still be immensely satisfying and bring tremendous pleasure. That's why I say do it. Not because all this horrible stuff happens, but because YOU yes, YOU control the sex you have. You want it to be great? MAKE it great! MAKE it spiritual! MAKE it matter! Enjoy one of life's great pleasures, before it's too late!

[Mace MacLeod]

I would say that sex during a honeymoon is probably a nice addition, but not an essential one. I'd pick (and marry for) love any day.

 

There's no denying that sex can bond people to each other, but again, I do not think it should be an essential part of marriage. A nice addition that one can live without, nothing more.

You think sex isn't an essential part of a relationship, huh? Heh heh heh heh...wowee. You're missing out, man. Badly. So what exactly the hell were you planning on doing during your honeymoon? Playing parchesi? If sex really isn't that important to you, then you obviously won't mind when your new bride starts nailing the milkman.

 

The room I'm typing this in is quite clean, Mace. I hope you weren't reffering to me.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Mea Culpa?

No seriously, that referred to someone rather more militant, whose posts fairly reeked of jealousy and misdirected frustration. I won't say who, but their past behaviour really sent up some red flags for me. If you abstain by choice, fine. Really. It's your life dude. But don't say I didn't warn you. Well, just read my last post. Hopefully someone has responded so I won't be double posting. Read the "sex can be good" part.

 

Oh, and admins? I guess, yeah, combine this if it turns out I've double posted or something. Yeah.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

As for "sexual problems leading to divorces", doesn't that say more about how messed-up that marriage was in the first place than how important sex is?

 

If you base a marriage on sexual intercourse, then you're very likely to suffer a drop in life quality when you hit the age of 60 and need a truck-load of viagra to even remember what that sausage down there is for.

[Nancy Allen``]

What? It's used for peeing isn't it?

[Mace MacLeod]

As for "sexual problems leading to divorces", doesn't that say more about how messed-up that marriage was in the first place than how important sex is?

 

If you base a marriage on sexual intercourse, then you're very likely to suffer a drop in life quality when you hit the age of 60 and need a truck-load of viagra to even remember what that sausage down there is for.

Oh for God's sake man, where did I say "base a marriage on sexual intercourse"? Huh? Where? That's right, I didn't, did I? I said it was a large PART of a marriage. And an Adult Relationship. And it is. I know. I've had them. When I'm 60 or 70 or 80 and the equipment doesn't work, well, if my wife and I are still together, we'll have had 30 or 40 or 50 years together, and we'll be able to handle that. But we also will always know what it was to be in our 20's and having sex for hours and hours and hours. It's worth it.

 

What? It's used for peeing isn't it?

Yes. Yes it is. I could provide many other graphic depictions of its use, but I'd probably end up banned.

[Nancy Allen``]

Heh, I know what you meant. Just ignore anything like that, I've been taking lessons from some of the more smarmy Star Wars characters.