You poor Americans...

[Mace MacLeod]

Doesn't change the fact that he was a big altruistic stupid, and that he blamed Reagan for all of the failings in his own administration.

??? Reagan came after Carter.

 

In all I still like Jr. Bush better then Sr. Bush. W doesn't go around saying that athiests aren't Americans like his dad. It's kind of like Mel Gibson and his dad, Mel's a jerk but his dad is a bigger jerk.

As long as Dubya runs the show, Sr more or less is still in charge. He used to be director of the CIA, and as a former President, has the right to be briefed by the CIA on a daily basis. Very few former Presidents exercise this right, but he does. Imagine why.

 

Ditch them both.

[stingerhs]

personally, i'm not a big fan of the way Bush has run the country, but i don't hate the guy. is he one of the worst Presidents, though?? well, i think its rather safe to wait 20 years before we drop judgement on him.

[Samnmax221]

??? Reagan came after Carter.

I know, Carter spent the entire 80's whining about how Reagan was just as bad of a president as he was.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

I seem to remember him dropping that dog in a later scene...

I believe his hatred is directed at kittens.

 

[Bimmerman]

While he may not be the worst, he's a contender. Nixon's the only president that's gotten caught lying and made to own up to it, all the others were just better liars. My main sticking point with Bush is his gross violation of civil liberties and civil rights a la the patriot act, and also with how he manages to weave religion and how he found jesus into everything, and how questioning that is somehow unamerican....that just bugs me.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Poor Dubya. Ah, well, no reason to feel sorry for him, he's struck it rich on his Presidency even if he goes down into history as a horrible leader of an ultra-corrupt party.

Time to vote Libertarian, my friend! Check it out... http://www.lp.org

Do they still want to legalize child porn and make all searches of your house illagel, even with a permit? They did a few years ago.

 

Their idea that you shouldn't be able to randomly test drivers for intoxication is fairly far-fetched, too.

 

The worst is a big toss up between Nixon, Carter, and Johnson.

Regaring Carter: The Nobel peace price is generally won by people who are fairly smart, and do a fairly good job, not by losers.

[Bimmerman]

Do they still want to legalize child porn and make all searches of your house illagel, even with a permit? They did a few years ago.

 

Their idea that you shouldn't be able to randomly test drivers for intoxication is fairly far-fetched, too.

 

Not as far as I know of. Libertarians are for the maximum of personal liberty, but child porn I am positive is still taboo. Coming from a Libertarian, it really seems bizarre to me. House searches and intoxication stops not sure either, but those seem way more plausible than the child porn thing.

[stingerhs]

While he may not be the worst, he's a contender. Nixon's the only president that's gotten caught lying and made to own up to it, all the others were just better liars.

so your entire premise of Bush being a bad President boils down to his honesty??

 

if that's the case, then this country, as well as a lot of other countries, have had some really bad leaders in the past, and not to mention the leaders they have now and on into the future. i hate to break it to ya, but lying is a big part of politics. even if some things are just the truth with a spin, it still classifies as lying, and every politician that i can think of does it.

 

and your list of "bad Presidents", i can't agree with a single name on that list. not one of them can be as bad as some of the ones we've had over the years. if i had to name just three bad Presidents, names like Van Buren, Ulysses S. Grant, and Hoover would top my list for a number of reasons that i could easily back up.

[Totenkopf]

Well, Clinton was actually made to pay for his ridiculous lie (he WAS impeached, but NOT prosecuted, Nixon resigned, but might have suffered both indignities if he hadn't).

 

DE:

Regaring Carter: The Nobel peace price is generally won by people who are fairly smart, and do a fairly good job, not by losers.

 

Welllll.......the peace prize is a very subjective one. I won't go so far as to say Carter is stupid (he was a nuclear engineer in the USN), but he's made a lot of poor decisions in spite of his apparent intelligence. About the only really useful thing he's done since his Mideast peace accord is the whole habitat for humanity gig. As to politics, the man is a cretin and either easily fooled (Neville Chamberlain, anyone) or playing for the other team (ie anyone BUT America).

 

Also, Stingerhs is quite correct. It's still too early too judge W's impact. Reagan was derided by his contemporaries, but historians now place him as one of America's greatest presidents. Frankly, Carter didn't get a bum deal, he brought much of it on himself.

[Bimmerman]

so your entire premise of Bush being a bad President boils down to his honesty??

 

if that's the case, then this country, as well as a lot of other countries, have had some really bad leaders in the past, and not to mention the leaders they have now and on into the future. i hate to break it to ya, but lying is a big part of politics. even if some things are just the truth with a spin, it still classifies as lying, and every politician that i can think of does it.

 

and your list of "bad Presidents", i can't agree with a single name on that list. not one of them can be as bad as some of the ones we've had over the years. if i had to name just three bad Presidents, names like Van Buren, Ulysses S. Grant, and Hoover would top my list for a number of reasons that i could easily back up.

 

No no, that's not what I meant. I was commenting on how some people have said their only problem with Nixon was the lying thing. I'm in agreement with you in that Bush's impact will take years if not decades to fully debate and document, even though I take issue with many things he's done in the name of patriotism and national security. Historians will debate this era in politics and history in general for years to come until people really just don't care. To take a line from the upcoming movie with Robin Williams, "Politicans should be changed as often as diapers, and for the same reason."

[Samnmax221]

Regaring Carter: The Nobel peace price is generally won by people who are fairly smart, and do a fairly good job, not by losers.

So he did the Camp David Accords, I don't see anything getting better in the Middle East. Peanut Boy needs to get back to building houses.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

so your entire premise of Bush being a bad President boils down to his honesty??

 

if that's the case, then this country, as well as a lot of other countries, have had some really bad leaders in the past, and not to mention the leaders they have now and on into the future. i hate to break it to ya, but lying is a big part of politics. even if some things are just the truth with a spin, it still classifies as lying, and every politician that i can think of does it.

But some lie more than others.

 

Clinton never told a lie that got 300 billion dollars spent and 2000+ American soldiers killed fighting a non-existant threat, did he?

 

But yes, of course Bush's lying is only one of the problems with him. I could list them ad infinitum.

[stingerhs]

But yes, of course Bush's lying is only one of the problems with him. I could list them ad infinitum.

and i also could list a lot of problems that i have with Bush.

 

my point was to clear the logic of Bimmerman's statement, nothing more. there's no point to debating something that we both agree on.

[mimartin]

I know, Carter spent the entire 80's whining about how Reagan was just as bad of a president as he was.

 

Your right Carter did whine about Reagan in the late 80’s. Starting around 1986 when it was reviled that the US had illegally sold arms to Iran. Carter felt (as I also do) that President Elect Reagan negotiated the sale of these arms to Iran in exchange for the American Hostages. Some believe this untrue and I have no evidence to support my suspicions, but I find it very strange coincidences that they were released the day he took office. The President’s power does not take effect till he or she takes the oath of office, so if Reagan or any members of administration negotiated with Iran, then Carter had reasons to whine. The US policy today as then was never negotiated with terrorist, and Reagan was the strongest voice in that policy, so if he had negotiated with the Iranian captors, it would make him something of a hypocrite at the very least. Using the money from the sales to support the Contra’s and selling the arms to Iran in the first place, violated laws passed by Congress and violated the policies subscripted to by his Administration.

 

Please don’t get me wrong I am not saying Reagan was a bad President, I just stating the reasons why Jimmy Carter may have had a right to whine a little about Ronald Reagan. I did not and do not agree with most of Reagan’s politics, but I feel he was the strong leader America needed after ten years of Nixon, Ford and Carter. If nothing else he made us proud to be American’s again.

[Samnmax221]

Your right Carter did whine about Reagan in the late 80’s. Starting around 1986 when it was reviled that the US had illegally sold arms to Iran. Carter felt (as I also do) that President Elect Reagan negotiated the sale of these arms to Iran in exchange for the American Hostages. Some believe this untrue and I have no evidence to support my suspicions, but I find it very strange coincidences that they were released the day he took office. The President’s power does not take effect till he or she takes the oath of office, so if Reagan or any members of administration negotiated with Iran, then Carter had reasons to whine. The US policy today as then was never negotiated with terrorist, and Reagan was the strongest voice in that policy, so if he had negotiated with the Iranian captors, it would make him something of a hypocrite at the very least. Using the money from the sales to support the Contra’s and selling the arms to Iran in the first place, violated laws passed by Congress and violated the policies subscripted to by his Administration.

There are rats in every presidential administration, someday we might know what happened completely (Hey, we found out who "Deep Throat" was).

[RaV™]

As Kanye West Once Said...George Bush Doesn't Like Black People..

 

Do you beleive that statement is true? I am aware that he wasnt right to say it, but he does have a sort of a point. Look how long it took him to do something bout Katrina..

[Samnmax221]

As Kanye West Once Said...George Bush Doesn't Like Black People..

 

Do you beleive that statement is true? I am aware that he wasnt right to say it, but he does have a sort of a point. Look how long it took him to do something bout Katrina..

I doubt it. The people in New Orleans were doomed by failure at all levels of government.

[Totenkopf]

As Kanye West Once Said...George Bush Doesn't Like Black People..

 

Do you beleive that statement is true? I am aware that he wasnt right to say it, but he does have a sort of a point. Look how long it took him to do something bout Katrina..

 

 

If KW had a point, then what does that say about Ray Nagin or even the governor of LA, both of whom bore the primary responsibility for the people of NO? The mayor himself was black and the gov. a democrat. Do they hate black people?