The experience system & skills and abilities thread

[razorace]

That's an interesting alternative.

[JRHockney*]

The real question is, how should we keep score with the new experience system? Maybe in terms of damage dealt + objectives accomplished?

 

I guess that would work for the score system, but your talking about Coop as far as the Objectives are concerned right?

 

But anyways, like maxstate said, certain point combinations with guns will be too powerful no matter what point system we have. There needs to be certain restrictions for while are using guns. My suggestion I posted above I think would help balance things out alot.

 

Why can gunners get all the guns , a flamethrower, Jump 3 AND lightning 3 without facing a single penalty?

 

I agree, but this is another reason why I thought flame thrower should be a weapon rather than an item. The flame thrower is just too powerful when combined with bigger weapons. You should have to switch back and forth so its a bit more balanced.

[razorace]

I was talking about any gametype where you have situations other than killing that should get players should get score from. Like CTF, Siege, etc.

 

If the individual powers are that over powering, we need to tweak them back into balance.

[ensiform]

I guess that would work for the score system, but your talking about Coop as far as the Objectives are concerned right?

 

But anyways, like maxstate said, certain point combinations with guns will be too powerful no matter what point system we have. There needs to be certain restrictions for while are using guns. My suggestion I posted above I think would help balance things out alot.

 

 

 

I agree, but this is another reason why I thought flame thrower should be a weapon rather than an item. The flame thrower is just too powerful when combined with bigger weapons. You should have to switch back and forth so its a bit more balanced.

 

Well if you want to have the flamethrower be a weapon, check out the flamethrower code from ET, then just convert the effects to an FX.

[JRHockney*]

Well if you want to have the flamethrower be a weapon, check out the flamethrower code from ET, then just convert the effects to an FX.

 

Love to, but I haven't been able to get my code to compile since you added that crash code because I think it uses those Win32 files that I don't have. I've tried a few ways of adding them back in, but none seemed to work. Until I have the time or patience to sit down again and find a better solution, all I can do is make suggestions here.

[robo85045]

I am going to derail this conversation for a moment and jump back to the possibility of changing weapon accuracy while moving. For an experimental mod based on ojp-e, I already set up its weapon code to allow overrides of velocity/damage/rate of fire, and the rest. I can work it in, if you feel that this is something we will do.

 

Btw I finished the 'seeker npc' code I mentioned here earlier, currently it acts thusly:

 

When the player uses the seeker item, the seeker npc is spawned but the player keeps the item.

 

The player can 'use' the seeker item again to command the npc to do actions, the actions are dependant on what the aim target is.

 

If the player is aiming at an enemy, the seeker will actively chase and hunt that enemy.

 

If the player is aiming at an ally, the seeker will follow and protect that ally

 

If the player is aiming at nothing, the seeker will go to the place they aimed at and circle around until it finds and enemy, then go after it.

 

I have included code ready to take the skill settings for the total blaster shots before it explodes (or drops to the floor with no ammo, THEN explode. I will work on that sp feature), damage per shot, and adjust the min and max time between shots fired.

 

Also I included as an experiment the ability to have the seeker act as a radar, and beep faster the closer an enemy player is to it. The range is settable in the seeker spawn code, so it can be scaled based on skill or disabled completely. It includes options to force a line of sight from the seeker or have it act as more radarish and pick up players through walls

 

 

I will upload it as soon as I get the ok and svn access from razorace.

 

Anyway, for the flamethrower:

just throwing this idea out there, it probably uses too many ents too rapidly to be feasible, but what if each 'flame' from the affect was an entity itself, allowing it to burn and damage you as it passes through you, and also allowing the player to run while flaming and actually get hurt by their own fire.

Or we could do it the cheap way and just force damage onto the player if they are moving with a certain forward speed while flaming.

 

I like the flamethrower how it is, at any rate. It isn't a quick jet burst like the other mods that I played have, but more of a realistic billowing flame.

[Maxstate]

I am going to derail this conversation for a moment and jump back to the possibility of changing weapon accuracy while moving. For an experimental mod based on ojp-e, I already set up its weapon code to allow overrides of velocity/damage/rate of fire, and the rest. I can work it in, if you feel that this is something we will do.

 

Btw I finished the 'seeker npc' code I mentioned here earlier, currently it acts thusly:

 

When the player uses the seeker item, the seeker npc is spawned but the player keeps the item.

 

The player can 'use' the seeker item again to command the npc to do actions, the actions are dependant on what the aim target is.

 

If the player is aiming at an enemy, the seeker will actively chase and hunt that enemy.

 

If the player is aiming at an ally, the seeker will follow and protect that ally

 

If the player is aiming at nothing, the seeker will go to the place they aimed at and circle around until it finds and enemy, then go after it.

 

I have included code ready to take the skill settings for the total blaster shots before it explodes (or drops to the floor with no ammo, THEN explode. I will work on that sp feature), damage per shot, and adjust the min and max time between shots fired.

 

Also I included as an experiment the ability to have the seeker act as a radar, and beep faster the closer an enemy player is to it. The range is settable in the seeker spawn code, so it can be scaled based on skill or disabled completely. It includes options to force a line of sight from the seeker or have it act as more radarish and pick up players through walls

 

 

I will upload it as soon as I get the ok and svn access from razorace.

 

Anyway, for the flamethrower:

just throwing this idea out there, it probably uses too many ents too rapidly to be feasible, but what if each 'flame' from the affect was an entity itself, allowing it to burn and damage you as it passes through you, and also allowing the player to run while flaming and actually get hurt by their own fire.

Or we could do it the cheap way and just force damage onto the player if they are moving with a certain forward speed while flaming.

 

I like the flamethrower how it is, at any rate. It isn't a quick jet burst like the other mods that I played have, but more of a realistic billowing flame.

 

That is SO awesome Great job man, I'm all pro if you're implementing it.

I had a few feature ideas for it though, maybe you would like them:

 

-Give the seeker a lightning/stun feature that only works up close but slows people down a bit.

-Make the sentry pushable, and when it hits something/someone after being pushed it ASSPLODES

 

I'll post more ideas later when I'm out of school.

 

This is a great feature, thanks and godspeed with your other projects.

[JRHockney*]

I am going to derail this conversation for a moment and jump back to the possibility of changing weapon accuracy while moving. For an experimental mod based on ojp-e, I already set up its weapon code to allow overrides of velocity/damage/rate of fire, and the rest. I can work it in, if you feel that this is something we will do.

 

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. We could even make a greater accuracy while running point level feature for it as well. It shoud be expensive though.

 

Btw I finished the 'seeker npc' code I mentioned here earlier, currently it acts thusly:

 

When the player uses the seeker item, the seeker npc is spawned but the player keeps the item.

 

The player can 'use' the seeker item again to command the npc to do actions, the actions are dependant on what the aim target is.

 

If the player is aiming at an enemy, the seeker will actively chase and hunt that enemy.

 

If the player is aiming at an ally, the seeker will follow and protect that ally

 

If the player is aiming at nothing, the seeker will go to the place they aimed at and circle around until it finds and enemy, then go after it.

 

I have included code ready to take the skill settings for the total blaster shots before it explodes (or drops to the floor with no ammo, THEN explode. I will work on that sp feature), damage per shot, and adjust the min and max time between shots fired.

 

Also I included as an experiment the ability to have the seeker act as a radar, and beep faster the closer an enemy player is to it. The range is settable in the seeker spawn code, so it can be scaled based on skill or disabled completely. It includes options to force a line of sight from the seeker or have it act as more radarish and pick up players through walls

 

Wow, that would be an awsome feature. Do you think that this idea and some of the code could also be applied to maybe a small squad of NPC soldiers or tabbots? If so, It would make for a cool extra feature as well as make them smarter than your average FM3 following soldier. They should also have the ability to stay in one place if you tell them to. The point system would be based on how many you have following you or maybe the types of weapons they have. Of course there would also have to be an exception for them not to shoot you if their aimed at you.

[Maxstate]

Skill ASSPLOZN!!!

 

Btw Hocks, I'd like you to test something out with me if you have the time in the next 5 or so hours?

[JRHockney*]

Skill ASSPLOZN!!!

 

Btw Hocks, I'd like you to test something out with me if you have the time in the next 5 or so hours?

 

Sorry, I can't. I have like 4 places to go this Thanksgiving so I'm very busy. Btw, HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!!!!!!

[razorace]

I am going to derail this conversation for a moment and jump back to the possibility of changing weapon accuracy while moving. For an experimental mod based on ojp-e, I already set up its weapon code to allow overrides of velocity/damage/rate of fire, and the rest. I can work it in, if you feel that this is something we will do.

What do you mean by overrides?

 

Btw I finished the 'seeker npc' code I mentioned here earlier, currently it acts thusly:

neat. Send me the modified files and I'll have a look.

 

I have included code ready to take the skill settings for the total blaster shots before it explodes (or drops to the floor with no ammo, THEN explode. I will work on that sp feature), damage per shot, and adjust the min and max time between shots fired.

If we're going to be using it as an item, I think we need to have it be consistant no matter what the npc skill level is set to.

 

Anyway, for the flamethrower:

just throwing this idea out there, it probably uses too many ents too rapidly to be feasible, but what if each 'flame' from the affect was an entity itself, allowing it to burn and damage you as it passes through you, and also allowing the player to run while flaming and actually get hurt by their own fire.

Or we could do it the cheap way and just force damage onto the player if they are moving with a certain forward speed while flaming.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm worried about the CPU cost. We've already been hitting the CPU wall with the super duper saber interpolation and adding something with multiple traces per second might be too much.

[Maxstate]

So are we getting anything in?

 

I mean, can I stop posting ideas now or what?

[razorace]

I've added skills for cloaking and using the force field items. Beyond that, I'm simply not sure how much time I'm going to have before the release deadline. In terms of priorties, I'm working on bug fixes and plan on adding in accuracy modeling for the gunners.

[ensiform]

Hmm I believe force field is missing a desc on the force powers menu or it isn't showing up. One of the two isn't afaik. But the text shows itself just not desc.

[razorace]

bug ticket time then.

[razorace]

FYI, I've been getting a lot of flak over the "lack" of skills. I just wanted to point out that SVN OJP Enhanced version has 11 Jedi skills and 12 gunner skills.

[UDM]

Awesome! When do we get to beta test it?

[razorace]

Probably thursday.

[Lathain Valtiel]

I agree, but this is another reason why I thought flame thrower should be a weapon rather than an item. The flame thrower is just too powerful when combined with bigger weapons. You should have to switch back and forth so its a bit more balanced.

 

Sure, go ahead. But only if you make it so that Lightning, Push, Pull, etc etc are all weapons.

 

Honestly, the flamer is not that powerful. I got killed 50% or so of the time I used it on you guys because the saber is a superior weapon against it provided that you have decent aim with it. Plus, you could all just lightning me down if it's such a problem, or Push me away, Pull me down, Jump, et cetera.

[UDM]

I agree with Lathain, now that I've tested the new flamethrower in-game. It's better off as a gadget, a side weapon if you would like it to be called that, than a main weapon. I'd die all the time if I used it as a main weapon lol, but as a complement, it works very well right now. Plus, ammo runs out very fast too, so you can't dominate a group of 10 Jedi just by combo-ing flamethrower and rocket launcher

[Maxstate]

About classes:

 

OJP has no classes, and to be honest I prefer it this way.

But it is also one of the most frustrating things about OJP. I'm not going to stress gunner/Jedi bull crap anymore as I see noone really wants to split them, so I think I might've conjured up a new, more RPG (diablo style, not role play) type gameplay that might be able to change the feel of OJP slightly but benefit it's playability a lot.

 

Foreword

People need to belong. Belong to what? Anything. Non-conformity doesn't exist, punk was a clique, type seeks type. What does this have to do with OJP? Well, part of the magic behind MovieBattles is that it makes you really feel like you really belong to the specific group or faction and it really makes you feel like you are actually fighting for a cause. In short; saving Leia never felt so real.

 

Again, no need to stress relevance - I'm getting to it.

 

The magic of JO was also extremely well performed : the lively cutscenes, very humane story, the illusion of actual personality and character in the roles and well-crafted maps and saber mechanics made JO feel like a world that was alive.

The main character's story, background and the game's sense of achievement through illustration and gameplay made it feel like you were really an actual Jedi and it gave you the willpower (and later satisfaction) to continue on with the game's story because you wanted to uncover the story, you wanted to progress and use new powers, you wanted to discover the Jedi way.

 

Jedi Academy had two angsty emo teens with no background at all as main characters, supported only by ghosts of real characters and personalities from the old games in lacking, undescriptive and boring cutscenes.

Jaden's past, his lack of Jedi training, his inability to block any incoming lightsaber attacks, the mystery of where his saber came from, his lack of personality and charm, his lack of a goal to strive for (I mean come on, who actually WANTS to save Rosh? He's totally ghey!) combined with the insanely crap maps, further saber and gun mechanics and uselessness of all save bar ONE force power made Jedi Academy into Jedi Outcast's more... handicapped nephew.

 

Where OJP comes in

 

OJP... So what did we do?

We did quite a lot actually. We fixed the saber system, added a new Skill-based character upgrading system and so much much more.. but OJP is lacking 'the feel' of a real Jedi and Sith mod.

 

Why?

 

Let me dissect our skill system if I may:

-2 offensive force powers

-5 neutral force powers

-3 useless Saber powers

 

That's the choices a Jedi gets. Yeah I know.

And don't tell me we didn't have time or they were fine before, lets try and look ahead for now.

 

Okay, without too much kicking-while-they're down I'm going to lay my opinion down on this as short as possible here:

 

We do not need extra powers (although this would be very nice) and we don't need total changes in powers either, but we need something to go for and we need something to look at for help so we can stop cruising around aimlessly between so many factors that decide what the mod is going to look like. Movie realism, realism, personal preference, balance.. let us please pick one!

Or for all our sakes, let us combine them into something we can work with and not use double standards for every idea and suggestion, for every addition we make!

 

Personally I think force powers should be replacements for Jedi Abilities passively, as well as active (but retooled) force powers.

Every time I go to my profile screen and click on something new, I want to feel the achievement that I did in JO when I finished a map.

 

..

 

But how can we do this?

Well firstly, we should look at the Force Powers' effects and think about how we could make them better.

 

Who here knows the difference between Push 1, 2 and 3?

I sure as hell don't, other than their effects against Absorb.

 

And who of you knows what level of Force Pull pulls weapons from players?

 

..

 

Exactly.

 

Not to overcomplicate things, here is a list of things I think should be changed with the Force powers' active functions:

 

Active functions

 

General:

-The profile screen should be enlarged and new icons should be introduced to Force Powers. Hint: Holocube thingies!

 

-Selecting a force power (PER LEVEL) will tell you exactly what it does and what kind of effects it will produce, nothing indepth, push 2 should state "increased chance to push person over, repels gunfire and explosives" while Push 3 could have something like "Best chance to push person over, repels gunfire and explosives".

 

-Skillpoints should be harder to earn, and while Ace didn't like the "level" idea, (go up in levels where you can spend points after you reach a specific amount, this amount would heighten after every level) Ace's interest level is low and the time for the mice to dance on the table has come.

We don't need to try new things, but we need to find a solution to the 'feel' problem.

 

OJP is not so much a complete mod because it is a collection of unrelated skills and reminds one more of quake 3 with lightsabers than of a real Jedi mod.

This is not what I want, this is not what the JKA community wants, HALP.

 

-Force Regeneration should increase when one stands still.

 

Force powers:

 

 

-Push 1:

Pushes only projectiles and gunfire.

 

-Push 2:

Pushes people over in their place.

 

-Push 3:

Pushes everything, as well as people away from the user and to the ground.

 

==========

-

 

Pull 2:

When aimed at the person and the person is at low DP and/or high mishap, the gun from the person is pulled to the floor.

 

 

 

 

Passive powers: (Ingame profile bonus names are shown in red, please use these as pointers or use them ingame to provide for more immersability)

 

Sense 3: Jedi Defense/Lightning reflexes

Enables autopushing.

-While in sense, mishap lowers faster Awareness

 

Sense 2: Good feeling

Ability to spot ammo and health packs as well as weapons close to you in Sense mode.

=====

-

 

Saber Defense 1 Parry training:

Increases Jedi DP amount by 5

 

Saber Defense 2 Adv. Parry training :

Increases Jedi Dp amount by 10

 

Saber Defense 3: Master parry training

Increases Jedi DP amount by 20

 

=====

--

Saber defense 1 (deflection) Deflection training :

10% deflection rate towards crosshair if walking or standing still.

 

Saber Defense 2 (deflection) ADv. Deflection training:

35% deflection rate towards crosshair if walking or standing still.

 

Saber defense 3 (deflection): Master Deflection

50% deflection rate if standing still, 35% if walking.

-Enables manual deflect which is done by power attacks and provides for a 100% reflect rate for one shot.

=====

-

 

Push 3/ Pull 3 combination Psychokinetic training

The Jedi is immune to area pushing or pulling and can only be pulled if the crosshair of the opponent is near them.

 

=====

--

Saber attack 3: Offensive saberist

Saber perks are visually enabled.

-Melee attacks do more damage.

 

Saber attack 2: Ignore pain

Damage reduction for explosives

 

 

 

 

=====

--

Speed 3: Perfect conditioning

While in sprint mode, ability to deflect is enabled.

Level 1 and 2 do not allow deflecting while sprinting and will force a dodge.

-Katas are done faster (melee grapples)

 

Speed 2: Hand-to-Hand combat training

Melee punches are sped up

 

Speed 1: Sokan training

Rolling (also sideways) will be easier to do and will be sped up if you roll from sprint mode to enable dodging shots. But doing a speedroll will cost 3 FP, and 30 DP if you get hit in one.

====

-

Jump 2: Soft landing

-Force Fall enabled

 

Jump 3: Balance control

-Ability to stay upright even when hit by explosives (only a good kick can knock you down)

 

=====

--

Absorb level 2: Endurance training

Increases HP to 125 at start of level

 

Absorb 3: Survival training

Increases HP to 150 at start of level

I would also like to suggest that both profile screen, saber selection, style changing and the likes get a more Jedi feel to them. I want to be able to click profile and immediately identify my faction and specialities from the lisst, as well as the bonuses I've earned in an eye's turn.

 

Tried digging up the file that determines the look of the profile screen but haven't been succesful, any help? I'll be glad to give it a more Jedi look.

 

Also, the introduction of the common attributes like strength, dexterity and stamina would also be a good idea to specialise a Jedi or gunner more.

Each would have their own bonuses and only one or two could be bought.

But I would be content if we used the force powers themselves as well.

 

Now as most of my posts I would like to make it clear that this is not exactly what I want, I try to post these things with as little as personal preference as I can so to give you guys a more neutral, objective ground to shape and mold to something you like too. None of this HAS to go in, but if SOME of it did (changed or not) I would be very happy.

 

*flame shelter*

[madcatmach2]

i achully like these ideas alout i would love to see them implemented if not just for the menu stuff saying what u have but i would love to see how these force ideas affect game play and see if it adds new crazy fighting strategy's

[Lathain Valtiel]

Saber Attack 2's bonus is ridiculous, and worse yet it has nothing to do with saber attacking at all. Learning saber attacking ability is not going to help you when a rocket is shoved in your face.

[JRHockney*]

Well, the ideas arent too bad, but I'm not sure I like most of them enough to try and code them myself. Too much crap to figure out. Maybe if Razor likes them, but he hasn't been around much so I wouldn't count on it too much. I'll look into a few of them, but I'm not sure its worth changing them too far from where they are now. I just don't see the real benefit of changing them that way compared to spending time to add new features or skills.

 

Btw, can anyone explain to me how to add things to the skill menu? I'd like to add back mindtrick and maybe the repeater so I can experiment with the code for them.

[Maxstate]

Good good, as I said I never post these lists to be taken completely seriously and fully.

It's up to the real people in charge (Hocks, Razor, Lathain to mention some) to decide what they want and how much of it they want.

 

But I must say that adding new skills wouldn't be quite a good idea as it would probably sow more confusion among noobs (and among experts that haven't/don't want to read the code in order to get it). If you ask me, we need to look at the powers we've got and add more depth and simplicity to them.

 

Imagine all the powers stay the same and you add mindtrick.

You'll have 5 or even 10 minutes of fun after you spend a nice amount of time figuring out when it works (when saturn and venus are in one line and your opponent is jumping while he has low DP ) Afterwards I think the power -how fun it might be- won't be of any use since:

 

1:

OJP's gameplay is similar to the Quake 3 Arena styled games. Meaning, whenever you add gunners or gun powers to the game it becomes hit-and-run game where killing someone is pretty useless unless you're going for the scorepoints (), because they will respawn immediately, and while you're busy with taking one person out another one will shoot or finish you off when you kill your target.

Or if you're really lucky, your target will respawn and shoot you himself.

People need to rip their attention away from the 1 on 1's we see a lot in OJP and need to start thinking how it would (will) be when OJP gets a bigger following.

 

 

2:

More easier to use but very indepth and strategic powers will LAST LONGER when you think of fun factor. They might not have the 10-minute-WOW effect that a repeater or mindtrick is going to have, but they will have the power to last even through OJP's betatesting period and all the way down the road to a final (read big) release.

 

But I'll leave it at that before I get phlamed lawl.