The Jedi in KotOR III

[Emperor Devon]

Within quite a few threads here, I've noticed people talking about having a new Jedi Order in KotOR III, though I've not yet seen a topic about it. Anyhow, do you want to see the Jedi back in KotOR III?

 

I don't want to, myself. Not only would it take years to reestablish them, (I'd prefer KotOR III to take place very soon after the second game) but it would also seem kind of weird for the Jedi to go from thousands down to five and then back up to the former. It would make the second game feel less important, and that's excluding what people who played as DS characters would do.

 

Opinions?

[Sir Palamides]

I agree. No new Jedi-Order until the war (where Revan's fighting) is over. It would be very weird, The Exile has to be the last Jedi (for a while)...

[Jediphile]

Establishing a new jedi order would seem to be one of the plot goals in KotOR3. Otherwise there would seem to be little point in all but wiping it out in TSL. Surely that should be used to advantage in the plot. Besides, being a young jedi padawan in an emerging jedi order with lots of potential for advancement is a great background for a new game. Especially if the true Sith are threatening in the shadows at the same time.

[igyman]

I think the Jedi Order should be reestablished in K3. Just because some masters were killed in TSL doesn't mean that the Jedi were wiped out, there were plenty more of them in hiding.

[Char Ell]

I don't know about this idea for a new Jedi Order in KotOR 3. I thought that didn't happen until Luke Skywalker's time.

 

In any case, after reading Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology the Jedi Order has to be back in action to a significant degree by 3670 B.B.Y., as TNEC states that was when the Jedi Order toppled the totalitarian regime in the Kanz sector. So a re-establishment of the Jedi Order is required somewhere in between the time the Exile departs for the Unknown Regions in search of Revan (circa 3950 B.B.Y.) and the time of the Kanz Disorders, a span of about 280 years.

 

If the Jedi Order has a significant role in KotOR 3 and the game storywriters have any desire to preserve some semblance of continuity then the order should be brought back so that it's much the same as it was depicted in KotOR. IMO the KotOR games mention too many characteristics and features of the Jedi Order that match what is shown in the movies for the Jedi Order to be reinstated as an organization with significant differences from the pattern as shown in the PT and EU novels from the PT time period.

[Jediphile]

I think the Jedi Order should be reestablished in K3. Just because some masters were killed in TSL doesn't mean that the Jedi were wiped out, there were plenty more of them in hiding.

 

Many jedi are probably in hiding, sure. Nomi could be one, and her daughter Vima would have to be, since they have descendants in the movie era. But TSL tells us that there were only about a hundred left and that even the academy on Coruscant was all but empty, so the order would seem to have been almost destroyed even if all its members were not.

 

Besides, listening to Zez-Kai Ell and Kavar (and Vash in the cut content), it seems the masters had to confront their own flaws and mistakes before they could move on. After all, their flawed teachings form the primary motive for Kreia's actions. Even Zez-Kai Ell admits that the masters were wrong to just cast the Exile out instead of trying to understand the nature of what had happened on Malachor V. That being the case, I was left with the impression that TSL tried to do away with the old order and its flawed principles (also mentioned at length by the Disciple) and replace it with a new order that corrected the flawed ways of the old. TSL set the stage for it, especially when Kreia declares that the Exile's companions are the "lost jedi" in the end. K3 just has to follow up on it.

[nick3333]

I think the Jedi Order should be reestablished in K3. Just because some masters were killed in TSL doesn't mean that the Jedi were wiped out, there were plenty more of them in hiding.

 

I agree.

And in response to the person who said that the Jedi Academy on Coruscant was all but empty: I think it would be, since the Jedi knew about the threat of being concentrated on one planet (what with that Nihilus around and all). Thus the Jedi dispersed around the galaxy, but kept in contact.

I think there are still at least a few hundred left by the end of TSL.

 

Anyway if KotOR III does take place right after its prequel, I think the Order should be re-established at least part-way through the story. Maybe not to its former grandeur, but to a point where it becomes a potent force again.

 

Ultimately, however, I don't think any of this matters. All I want is for KotOR III (if it comes out) to surpass its predecessor (KotOR II) in every conceivable way. For instance, I want KotOR III to go back to being an epic, rip-roaring adventure, and I want it to be much more 'star warsy' than KotOR II (which really didn't have much of a Star Wars feel at all.. In fact, I found its plot to be ridiculous, despite being well-written in parts).

In short, I don't want KotOR III to be like KotOR II at all. Except for the combat, which was good.

[Lightsider]

I think the next one should be about rebuilding the order and reestablishing their place in the universe!!

[Master Kavar]

A whole army of Jedi Knights like in the original Knights of the Old Republic? No, but I do think the Order should be back in some form.

 

I think the best way to do this would be to have a new / re-established Jedi enclave, now brimming with Force-sensitive students under the tutelage of Bastila, Juhani, Jolee, Atton, Visas, Mical, Bao-Dur, Brianna, Mira, Yuthura, and Dustil Onasi.

 

Place it a few years after TSL's so it's more normal to see a handfull of Knights and students spotted throughout the galaxy, but now not as powerful or respected as they once were. That's a great way to set the stage for the next battle with the "True Sith", and what role your own (new) character will play in it.

[The Architect]

In the introduction and part one of my KotOR III story... (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=171405)

 

I have a new Jedi Order set up in it, although it is different this time, because the leaders of the new Jedi Order are relatively youthful and inexperienced Jedi and their 'desperation' to restore the old Jedi Order and get the 'numbers' back into it have caused them to recruit, teach and train plenty more 'older' force-sensitive’s than per usual.

 

But should there be a new Jedi Order in KotOR III? Not necessarily, especially if you set the Exile as DS, but I would like to see a new Jedi Order (but obviously a very different and weak one) if you set the Exile as LS.

 

Oh, and Master Kavar, with your idea about who could be members of a new Jedi Order...

 

Bastila: She could have been killed by LS Revan in KotOR and she can also be DS. For me, there are too many variables to make Bastila as a 'leader of the new Jedi Order' figure, especially considering the fact that DS Bastila goes off to search for Revan, which IMO suggests that LS Bastila (if alive) will also go off and search for Revan eventually and therefore will not be around to play a role in the rebuilding of a new Jedi or Sith Order...

 

Juhani: It's best to leave her dead. She is dead if Revan was DS and she could have been killed on Dantooine (and that is not determined by Revan's alignment). Even if Juhani was not killed on Dantooine or Rakata Prime in your vision, canonical interpretation or your official play-through, one can safely assume that she died on Katarr.

 

Jolee: I hate the idea of Jolee being in such a role, because it goes against his character completely. Besides Jolee is dead if Revan was DS. I'd prefer it (if Revan was LS) if Jolee was helping the poor and suppressed on a world such as Sleheyron, as that seems to suit his character much more.

 

Atton: I suppose if you set the Exile as LS, Atton could be a member of the new Jedi Order, but yet again, perhaps not. I have to agree with T.Nova that I can't imagine Atton spouting the Jedi code/teachings, even though I made him as a member of the new Jedi Order in my own plot so far (only if the Exile is set as LS). But he certainly wouldn't be a Jedi if the Exile is set as DS.

 

Visas: I can see her as the leader of a new Jedi/Sith Order (depending on the Exile's alignment), so there's no problems here.

 

Mical: LS Exile = Yes (but he could be dead for some reason if you set the Exile as male). DS Exile = no for Mical (even if it's a DSM). Just kill him off for the 'male Exile' scenario IMO...

 

Bao-Dur: LS Exile = Yes, DS Exile = No. Simple...

 

Brianna: LSM Exile = Yes, LSF Exile = No (kill her off IMO) and DS Exile = No...

 

Mira: LS Exile = Yes, DS Exile = No...

 

Yuthura Ban: She could have died in KotOR (and it does not depend on Revan's alignment). So I say 'if' she survived, just assume she either died on Katarr or was killed in the 'Sith Civil War' that took place on Korriban after the events of KotOR (it depends)...

 

Dustil Onasi: (Same as Yuthura)...

[ztemplarz]

Sorry to rain on your parade architect, but LucasArts actually established a formal account of what happened [canonized] in the SW universe for both Kotor I & II. I don't know if the next game will adhere to it, but that could certainly be the case... Sorry, can't provide a link, but I'll keep looking.

[Char Ell]

^^^

Perhaps you refer to the TSL Chronicles? If so then look either on the official TSL website <link> then click on Game Info. Click on the Chronicles link on the left and that will get you started.

 

An easier reading format of the TSL Chronicles can be found at gamebanshee.com's website.

[Prime]

What? A Knights of the Old Republic game with out knights?

 

Me no likey!

[Beast-Thrasher]

I would like to see, if Revan and the Exile went LS characters from the first and second game as well as people mentioned in those games. I would like to see Juhani's master Quatra and a bunch of the Jedi that switched off the saber like Atton says when you first meet him.

 

I would like to see some Jedi but not a whole bunch at the temples or enclave, my story for KIII would start two years after the events of KII so they have a few new recruits some young kids and some older people like your character which I would put as early to mid 20's.

 

Anyway this thread is pretty good, gave me some ideas I can put into my lil fan fic...

[nick3333]

One Jedi I'd particularly like to see is Vandar. Actually I don't even care if it's Master Vandar; I just want to see a (Yoda-type) creature somewhere in the game.

[SithStarSlayer]

I have to disagree. No more Yoda, Vandar or Yaddles in the Star Wars Universe. The more there are, the dumber the stories look. I mean, we still don't know their species... how many of them have to be a Jedi Master before we get to find out their origins?

 

As for the Jedi in K-III, the Order should be in ruins. Revan and the Exile (if they succeed) should be the ones who return to reinvent/revive the Order. After all, Revan is now responsible for Bane's reformation of the Sith. (See Path Of Destruction for details)

[Jediphile]

Jolee: I hate the idea of Jolee being in such a role, because it goes against his character completely. Besides Jolee is dead if Revan was DS. I'd prefer it (if Revan was LS) if Jolee was helping the poor and suppressed on a world such as Sleheyron, as that seems to suit his character much more.

 

I agree it's not quite his character, but the way I see it that is precisely why Jolee might be essential to a new emerging jedi order. Jolee left because of the flaws he perceived in the order, and I think that subsequent chain of events proved him right in his criticism, which is why the order needs his experience and wisdom to not repeat the mistakes of the old masters. But it would take someone like Revan to convince Jolee to come back, I think. Assuming Revan is LS, of course. If not then it doesn't matter because Jolee will be quite dead.

[nick3333]

I agree it's not quite his character, but the way I see it that is precisely why Jolee might be essential to a new emerging jedi order. Jolee left because of the flaws he perceived in the order, and I think that subsequent chain of events proved him right in his criticism, which is why the order needs his experience and wisdom to repeat the mistakes of the old masters. But it would take someone like Revan to convince Jolee to come back, I think. Assuming Revan is LS, of course. If not then it doesn't matter because Jolee will be quite dead.

 

I'd love it if you could convince Jolee to help form a new Jedi order. Hell, I'd love any excuse to see Jolee again.

And to the poster who said that the more Yoda-types there are, the dumber the story, I submit this to you: the Empire Strikes Back. That is all.

[nick3333]

I agree it's not quite his character, but the way I see it that is precisely why Jolee might be essential to a new emerging jedi order. Jolee left because of the flaws he perceived in the order, and I think that subsequent chain of events proved him right in his criticism, which is why the order needs his experience and wisdom to repeat the mistakes of the old masters. But it would take someone like Revan to convince Jolee to come back, I think. Assuming Revan is LS, of course. If not then it doesn't matter because Jolee will be quite dead.

 

I'd love it if you could convince Jolee to help form a new Jedi order. Hell, I'd love any excuse to see Jolee again.

And to the poster who said that the more Yoda-types there are, the dumber the story, I submit this to you: the Empire Strikes Back. That is all.

[Emperor Devon]

What? A Knights of the Old Republic game with out knights?

 

For DS players, at least. Even for LS ones, I liked it better how there were a handful of Jedi in ANH more than thousands. The Order didn't come back by RotJ anyway.

 

Besides, being a young jedi padawan in an emerging jedi order with lots of potential for advancement is a great background for a new game. Especially if the true Sith are threatening in the shadows at the same time.

 

I'd been hoping the Sith would attack almost right after KotOR II. And that's excluding DS players.

[Emperor Devon]

What? A Knights of the Old Republic game with out knights?

 

For DS players, at least. Even for LS ones, I liked it better how there were a handful of Jedi in ANH more than thousands. The Order didn't come back by RotJ anyway.

 

Besides, being a young jedi padawan in an emerging jedi order with lots of potential for advancement is a great background for a new game. Especially if the true Sith are threatening in the shadows at the same time.

 

I'd been hoping the Sith would attack almost right after KotOR II. And that's excluding DS players.

[The Architect]

Sorry to rain on your parade architect, but LucasArts actually established a formal account of what happened [canonized] in the SW universe for both Kotor I & II. I don't know if the next game will adhere to it, but that could certainly be the case... Sorry, can't provide a link, but I'll keep looking.

 

Sure, Revan and the Exile may be LS in canon according to the EU, but what they are in the video games should be entirely up to the individual player. If KotOR III takes place in such a timeline where Revan and the Exile's genders and alignments become relevant (and it should) then we must be allowed to choose them. If not, then don't make KotOR III.

 

One Jedi I'd particularly like to see is Vandar. Actually I don't even care if it's Master Vandar; I just want to see a (Yoda-type) creature somewhere in the game.

 

Master Vandar is dead, regardless of Revan’s alignment...

 

I agree it's not quite his character, but the way I see it that is precisely why Jolee might be essential to a new emerging jedi order. Jolee left because of the flaws he perceived in the order, and I think that subsequent chain of events proved him right in his criticism, which is why the order needs his experience and wisdom to not repeat the mistakes of the old masters. But it would take someone like Revan to convince Jolee to come back, I think. Assuming Revan is LS, of course. If not then it doesn't matter because Jolee will be quite dead.

 

I agree that if Revan is set as LS the new Jedi Order could do with Jolee's experience and wisdom. He would certainly contribute greatly to the new Jedi Order.

 

But I don't think anyone could convince Jolee to come back to the Order, not even Revan. I don't see why Jolee would listen to Revan for, especially since he's 'had ample time to think things over' and to me, has made his mind up.

 

Well, that little conversation Jolee has with Bastila in KotOR certainly suggests to me that Jolee will never return to the Jedi Order. I could be wrong, but I personally don't want to see Jolee return to the Jedi Order. Help Revan against the 'True Sith'? Yes. Return to the Jedi Order? No.

[SilentScope001]

Who says that the Jedi Order won't come back if Exile is set to DS?

 

Well, other than the fact that the Exile would be responsible for forming the Sith Order instead (but one can always say that the last remaining Jedi banded together to defeat this new Sith Lord). Or at least, that is what is assumed. Maybe, just maybe, the Exile could be creating a new Jedi Order, with a darker focus than the previous Order.

 

But, to me? I have three ideas: 1)Let the Jedi Order die in K3, and then, once the True Sith get elimanted, have Revan and the Exile revive it. 2) If you have to start off as a Padawan, play up the fact that the Jedi Order is very, very weak. 3) Have the Padawan be a Sith, either a new one in the Sith Order formed by DS Exile, or a "Fallen" Sith, redeeming himself to the LS.

[Vaelastraz]

My opinion on that:

 

A Kotor III with a Jedi Order. Decades after Kotor II, the Order may not be what it once was, but it is definitly a force in the galaxy.

 

What I'd really like to see in Kotorl, are force sensitive trained people who use the force to their advantage! No stupid jedi/sith code, no "greater goal", they just use what they are gifted with to accomplish whatever they want. Not necessarily DS or LS.

 

Sry for offtopic.

 

Anyway, I think starting in a almost destroyed Environment, like a collapsed galaxy and no jedi order, would suck. It might be realistic but it sucks in my opinion, hence I'm all for a more or less stabilzed galaxy with the jedi Order.

[tbl]

At the end of the game, Kreia said something about your companions being the "true lost Jedi" and will go on to reform the order.

 

"They were the Lost Jedi, you know. The true Jedi, upon which the future will be built. They simply needed a leader, and a teacher."

—Darth Traya