Saddaam Hussein given death sentence

[Spider AL]

The question was did he set out to kill the people of Iraq or remove Saddam from power?

Sigh. He knew that if he invaded Iraq many Iraqi civilians would die, and the country would be thrown into turmoil. He invaded anyway. So yes, he "set out to kill the people", in the same way that a mugger who beats people up and steals their cash "sets out to beat people up". Even if he has an ulterior motive for his violence, his violence is intentional and part of his crime.

 

A large part of the blame, don't forget, falls on Iraqi Insurgents who wanted Saddam to remain in power

A large part of the blame for what exactly?

 

but certainly we should not have gone into Iraq, and now that we are there we have to see it through. We cannot just leave it like Vietnam and Somalia.

lol "like vietnam".

 

The only way the US could ever hope to even BEGIN to repair the damage they've done to Iraq is to funnel such a HUGE amount of money into the battered nation, that it would probably ruin the US economy. Repairing Iraq isn't going to happen. We could stay in Iraq for the next century and still not help the country sufficiently to atone for our crimes.

[Windu Chi]

Sigh. He knew that if he invaded Iraq many Iraqi civilians would die, and the country would be thrown into turmoil. He invaded anyway. So yes, he "set out to kill the people", in the same way that a mugger who beats people up and steals their cash "sets out to beat people up". Even if he has an ulterior motive for his violence, his violence is intentional and part of his crime.

I don't like Bush but this is ridiculous.

Also these so called logical examples you give are ridiculous too.

He "set out to kill the people", come on.

He f**k up by invading Iraq and he is an idiot but I don't think he is evil.

[Nancy Allen``]

This may sound like an obvious question, but if we were to claim Bush intended to kill Iraqi people, then the suicide bombings that Palestine had conducted against Israel, would it be fair to say they intended to kill Jews or does another rule apply to them?

[Mace MacLeod]

This may sound like an obvious question, but if we were to claim Bush intended to kill Iraqi people, then the suicide bombings that Palestine had conducted against Israel, would it be fair to say they intended to kill Jews or does another rule apply to them?

WTF does that have to do with Saddam or Iraq? Hello...there is no way to invade a country and dig out an entrenched military force without killing civilians. I mean, what the hell...? This has nothing to do with Israel or their military's actions or suicide bombers from Palestine. OF COURSE Bush and his buds intended to kill Iraqi civilians! There was absolutley no way to invade Iraq without doing so! Hell-oooo...! They knew that all along, and they ignored international law to go in anyway. The US invasion has killed far more people than all the suicide bombings in Israel and 9/11 combined. What is your definition of "Evil" anyway? Al-Qaeda kills civilians it's evil, the US kills civilians it's not? Those people are dead either way.

 

I don't like Bush but this is ridiculous.

Also these so called logical examples you give are ridiculous too.

He "set out to kill the people", come on.

He f**k up by invading Iraq and he is an idiot but I don't think he is evil.

You really do hate logic, don't you?

Nancy you are wasting your time arguing with a pacifist.

The Space Navy recruiting yet?

[Windu Chi]

 

You really do hate logic, don't you?

The Space Navy recruiting yet?

What you are still mad with me because of my, If Earth was threaten with a major danger, will money determine the fate of our planet? thread.

 

Yeah, for Space Navy recruiting.

I wish they hurry up.

Brother getting tired of waiting.

[Mace MacLeod]

^^Not mad, just hoping you somehow grasp basic logic and grammar.

[Windu Chi]

^^Not mad, just hoping you somehow grasp basic logic and grammar.

I'm curious are you a pacifist too,

like Spider AL?

[Tyrion]

I'm curious are you a pacifist too,

like Spider AL?

 

You don't have to be a pacifist to be against needless violence.

[Nancy Allen``]

WTF does that have to do with Saddam or Iraq?

 

Simple, I want to establish whether or not Palestine sets out to kill Jews by launching terrorist attacks against Israel.

 

Hello...there is no way to invade a country and dig out an entrenched military force without killing civilians.

 

No ****. Maybe I wasn't clear before. Maybe you'll understand this: ****ing Bush was ****ing wrong to ****ing invade ****ing Iraq. Is that clear enough for you?

 

This has nothing to do with Israel or their military's actions or suicide bombers from Palestine.

 

See my first comment.

 

OF COURSE Bush and his buds intended to kill Iraqi civilians! There was absolutley no way to invade Iraq without doing so! Hell-oooo...!

 

By that logic then maybe Kosovo, Kuwait and Somalia shouldn't have had any intervention, as obviously it was the intent to kill the people there by invading and overthrowing the occupational forces there. For that matter, Vietnam probably should have been left to communisn, Korea should have been ignored and most definetly no action should have been taken against the Nazi takeover of Europe, because the intention was to kill the people who were in those countries rather than fight against Hitler.

 

They knew that all along, and they ignored international law to go in anyway.

 

That's soooooo 2003.

 

The US invasion has killed far more people than all the suicide bombings in Israel and 9/11 combined. What is your definition of "Evil" anyway? Al-Qaeda kills civilians it's evil, the US kills civilians it's not? Those people are dead either way.

 

Please show me one shred of evidence that shows soldiers setting out to kill civillians. Just one, I'd really like to see it. Some video or something of soldiers storming into a village and killing the population there. C'mon, just a little bit of hard evidence, just enough to show that soldiers are setting out to kill innocents or Bush had ordered killing innocents.

 

And you said it before so I'll say it now, enough with the insults and back on topic.

[Windu Chi]

You don't have to be a pacifist to be against needless violence.

Don't tell me you believe that Bush intended to wipe the Iraqi people out.

[Tyrion]

Don't tell me you believe that Bush intended to wipe the Iraqi people out.

 

He may have not intended to commit genocide against the Iraqis, but there isn't a lot of evidence to support the notion he cared deeply for their survival.

[TK-8252]

Don't tell me you believe that Bush intended to wipe the Iraqi people out.

 

I don't think anyone here believes that. They, including myself, believe that Bush's actions have caused the deaths of thousands of civilians in Iraq as a result of the invasion, and that he KNEW that there would be these massive numbers of civilian casualties - and decided to launch an unjustified war anyway.

[Windu Chi]

He may have not intended to commit genocide against the Iraqis, but there isn't a lot of evidence to support the notion he cared deeply for their survival.

Genocide, are you kidding me?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Simple, I want to establish whether or not Palestine sets out to kill Jews by launching terrorist attacks against Israel.

Since Israel is a Jewish state, I'm gonna say "yes."

 

By that logic then maybe Kosovo, Kuwait and Somalia shouldn't have had any intervention, as obviously it was the intent to kill the people there by invading and overthrowing the occupational forces there. For that matter, Vietnam probably should have been left to communisn, Korea should have been ignored and most definetly no action should have been taken against the Nazi takeover of Europe, because the intention was to kill the people who were in those countries rather than fight against Hitler.

If you're going to make this argument, you may find it more effective if you leave out Somalia and Vietnam. And by the way, most U.S. forces were fighting Japan during World War II. The U.S. cared about what was going on in Europe so much we turned a boatload of Jewish refugees just before the Holocaust-although if you also subscribe to the theory that the U.S, knew about Pearl Harbor several years before it happened you could make the argument that this was done so we could send troops to Europe without upsetting the general public.

 

Don't tell me you believe that Bush intended to wipe the Iraqi people out.

He doesn't care enough about them to want to wipe them out. To him, I'm guessing they're nothing more than the background of a photo-op.

 

Genocide, are you kidding me?

He didn't say Bush intended to commit genocide, he said Bush didn't give a damn about whether or not they died.

[Jae Onasi]

So yes, he "set out to kill the people", in the same way that a mugger who beats people up and steals their cash "sets out to beat people up". Even if he has an ulterior motive for his violence, his violence is intentional and part of his crime.

American GIs, and I'm assuming the soldiers and sailors of any other well-trained force in any other country, do not 'set out to kill the people.' Jimbo's in the US Army, so we get to see a lot more news about what goes on there than the media decides to show on TV, and Jimbo saw a lot of soldiers coming back from Iraq (he helped them with their outgoing dental work that they all had to do). We heard not just the 'approved' stories but the US Army, but also heard individuals' stories about what's happening over there, and they don't hold back unless ordered to keep something classified. We've worked our butts off to avoid killing 'the people'. The truth is, 'the people' are killing far more of 'the people' than the Americans have.

 

lol "like vietnam".

The only way the US could ever hope to even BEGIN to repair the damage they've done to Iraq is to funnel such a HUGE amount of money into the battered nation, that it would probably ruin the US economy. Repairing Iraq isn't going to happen.

 

I've spoken with a number of 'Nam vets (both pro and con-Bush, so their politics don't factor into this). They uniformly and without hesitation say this war is absolutely nothing like Vietnam. Having studied the Vietnam war and Lyndon Johnson (President at the time) and having heard from current soldiers and vets, I completely agree. Different times, different attitudes, different ideologies, different geography, etc. In any case, comparison with 'Nam is irrelevent.

 

The US is funneling in huge amounts of money into the nation. The new bridges, rebuilt roads (rebuilt far better than what they were to start with), new schools, rebuilt and restocked hospitals, new de-salinization plants and new sewage systems and treatment plants weren't the result of spontaneous generation. However, pictures of a sewage treatment plant has been deemed by the media as "Not Exciting and/or Sexy" like pictures of exploding roadside bombs, so it doesn't get any press.

 

I think Bush made a big mistake invading--that decision was based on bad information (Do you think Colin Powell would have gone to the UN with that info if _he_ thought it was bad? I don't think so). However, now that we're there, we need to finish the job and not leave it to get taken over by whoever the next strongest and most cunning general happens to be.

 

Hussein's an Iraqi citizen, it's Iraq's job to deal with him.

 

@Mace--the 'space navy' and assorted related statements reminds me of the saying on a t-shirt 'Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here.'

[Windu Chi]

If you're going to make this argument, you may find it more effective if you leave out Somalia and Vietnam. And by the way, most U.S. forces were fighting Japan during World War II. The U.S. cared about what was going on in Europe so much we turned a boatload of Jewish refugees just before the Holocaust-although if you also subscribe to the theory that the U.S, knew about Pearl Harbor several years before it happened you could make the argument that this was done so we could send troops to Europe without upsetting the general public.

Yeah, that really piss me off when I heard about that.

 

 

He doesn't care enough about them to want to wipe them out. To him, I'm guessing they're nothing more than the background of a photo-op.

 

 

He didn't say Bush intended to commit genocide, he said Bush didn't give a damn about whether or not they died.

I can't believe you believe something like this, I thought I was the only conspiracy nut here.

[Tyrion]

I can't believe you believe something like this, I thought I was the only conspiracy nut here.

 

That's not a conspiracy theory: believing Bush was trying to commit active genocide in Iraq would be a conspiracy theory. What Jmac and I are talking about are the plain-as-daylight facts that surmount to Bush giving little to no thought about the average Iraqi civilian; he never conspired for or against them.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

I can't believe you believe something like this, I thought I was the only conspiracy nut here.

GEORGE BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE IRAQIS.

[Windu Chi]

GEORGE BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE IRAQIS.

I know that Jmac.

Well, about the BLACK PEOPLE statement.

Katrina !

 

I'm guessing your argument is that he only care about the oil , not the people he have to wipe out to get to it.

Well, I need some convincing evidence that Bush is that evil.

All that I know he is a idiot and a racist, which I hate extremely.

Unless I'm missing something else.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

I know that Jmac.

Well, about the BLACK PEOPLE statement.

Katrina !

 

I'm guessing your argument is that he only care about the oil , not the people he have to wipe out to get to it.

Well, I need some convincing evidence that Bush is that evil.

All that I know he is a idiot and a racist, which I hate extremely.

Unless I'm missing something else.

Ugh. What we're all saying is that George Bush didn't care enough to try and minimize civilian casualties in Iraq. We're not saying he actively tried to kill Iraqi people.

[Windu Chi]

Ugh. What we're all saying is that George Bush didn't care enough to try and minimize civilian casualties in Iraq. We're not saying he actively tried to kill Iraqi people.

I was not saying that you, TK-8252, and Tyrion actually believe that Bush was actively trying to kill the Iraqi people.

 

I was assuming y'all was agreeing with this statement:

 

So yes, he "set out to kill the people", in the same way that a mugger who beats people up and steals their cash "sets out to beat people up". Even if he has an ulterior motive for his violence, his violence is intentional and part of his crime.

 

This is what started this whole damn argument we are having now.

[Nancy Allen``]

I don't think anyone here believes that.

 

:whistles:

 

OF COURSE Bush and his buds intended to kill Iraqi civilians!

[TK-8252]

:whistles:

 

What Mace said and what windu said aren't the same thing. I don't think anyone really believes that Bush ordered the Iraqi people to be wiped out. Does he care that they're being wiped out? I don't think so. Otherwise he would have listened to all of the professionals who warned him before the war that ethnic cleansing and sectarian violence would be widespread, and he wouldn't have gone through with the invasion. He intended to start a war that would inevitably kill thousands of civilians. But his goal was not to kill civilians anymore than it was his goal to get American soldiers killed.

 

What is more important is that thousands of civilians are dead now, and thousands of soldiers are as well. I don't think it really even matters at this point who killed them and why. They're dead, it's a god damn shame, and it wouldn't have happened if there was no invasion.

[Tyrion]

This is what started this whole damn argument we are having now.

 

I think you inferred Spider Al's post incorrectly: he probably meant that a mugger will kill in order to mug; likewise Bush's war will and has end up killing civilians in the process of "securing freedom" for the Western world. Neither the mugger nor Bush have it planned out to kill in cold blood, but it is still their responsibility if it happens.

[Nancy Allen``]

The U.S. cared about what was going on in Europe so much we turned a boatload of Jewish refugees just before the Holocaust-although if you also subscribe to the theory that the U.S, knew about Pearl Harbor several years before it happened you could make the argument that this was done so we could send troops to Europe without upsetting the general public.

 

I just want to point this particular quote out and ask, keeping in mind it was wrong to go to war with Iraq, whether the same people who criticise Bush now would criticise him if we did nothing and something like this happened?

 

I'd venture to say yes, because of criticism over not preventing September 11 and then attacking when action is taken to prevent it from happening again (the foiled London hijackings).