The Architect Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 If what Kreia says is true that Nihilus cares nothing for the teachings of the Sith, then was he still a Sith Lord in K2? Yes, I know he doesn't discard his 'Darth' title and he doesn't turn away from the dark side, but surely there is more to it than that, right? Considering that Nihilus wanted to devour all life, was already dead, was a slave to his power and was a retarded, inhuman like void in the Force, could anyone truly call him a Sith Lord in K2 any more? I know I'm probably wrong with this, since the game is called 'The Sith Lords' after all, but consider what Kreia says about him: Kreia: “And he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings... or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well. There is no future in the empty galaxy he sees. And that is why he must be stopped; the breach must sealed, before his power grows beyond what even we can hope to stop. One cannot have power of that magnitude that her master possesses and still think and perceive the universe as we do, as most of us do.” Kreia: "{Chiding} Power? Do you think so? {Shakes head} You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead; it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.” Discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Skywalker Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Of Course Nihilus isn't a Dark Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK-42 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Architect Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Of Course Nihilus isn't a Dark Lord! I never said that did I? The question was, do you think that Darth Nihilus is still a Sith Lord in K2 or not? Last time I checked, you don't have to be the Dark Lord of the Sith to be a Sith Lord. The Dark Lord's apprentice and so on can also be a Sith Lord. who cares If you don’t care, then why click on my topic in the first place? I suppose you could say "Why have the option "Who cares?" On my poll, but don't forget, if you didn't care, you wouldn't have clicked on my topic in the first place, so you wouldn't have even seen the poll options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Skywalker Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 ahhhh...... you would be right, but I didn't say *THE* Dark Lord, I said a Dark Lord, which in retrospect means the same thing as Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Moving to Telos T.B. as this topic isn't about K3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Varen Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 No. Nihilus is the poorest excuse for a Sith Lord. Even Dooku was better and a group of Sith Soldiers could put up a better fight then him. Besides, I preferred Sion from the beginning, not Nihilus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sith'ari Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 from what we know in K2 (that is nothing at all about Nihilus), he isn't a true sith lord- he knows nothing about the sith teachings (as it seems), he just hungers to kill people as a regular sith lord does. Hack, I really don't know what he is, apart from the fact that he's someone like the exile. Wish more will be revealed in K3. But u know, he's regarded as one of the sith lords in K2, by Kreia. So I'd choose the option "A sith lord in name but not in mind and spirit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 From what I know, Nihilus was pretty much a Sith. He also followed the Sith philosophy of catering to oneself and letting the rest of the galaxy burn in hell. Of course, for the Nihilus both these Sith pillars were one and the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 From what I understood, Nihilus is a sith, learned the sith teachings etc. Learned their greatest secrets, but was consumed by his power. It controls him, not the other way 'round like it's supposed too. If he could control his power, then he probably would do suth stuff. As for his dead status Visas: I see a man, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sith'ari Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Darth K, I see you've changed your avatar to a more slashy one. Back on topic, well, I don't really know. If he's consumed by hunger and doesn't care about the sith teachings no more, is he still a sith lord? He knows the sith teachings but well, if he "doesn't care", perhaps he's not qualified. And the fact that he wants to destroy things in the galaxy like the sith does doesn't make him a sith lord. Sith is part of the evil, but many other entities outside the scope of "sith" are evil as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaelastraz Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 It all depends on what you call a Sith Lord. It doesn't look like Nihilus is interested in anything except his hunger. For me, that is not a Sith lord, but a force sensitive rancor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balderdash Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Yes, he's a Sith Lord. Actually, when you think about it, the Sith have gone through a multitude of changes during their various uprisings. Throughout the timeline: Naga Sadow was different to Marka Ragnos. Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were different to the 'Golden Age' Sith, and then Revan and Malak were similar in a way, but slightly different again. Kaan's brotherhood was something new, and then of course, Bane's rule of two was completely different, eventually leading to the rise of Palpatine and Vader. So my question is, how would you even define a Sith Lord, when all the ones we know about have all been so different? Bottom line is, they were all evil ruthless bad guys, they all wanted to take whatever they could from the galaxy; Nihilus was no different in that sense. I'd say that his philosophy more or less adheres to the Sith code in it's own way. That said, Kreia's comment about him not caring about the teachings of the Sith, is probably well-observed, but in my opinion, that fact alone doesn't mean he is not a real Sith Lord. Edit: Following on from that, I want to register my agreement with the point expressed below. Kreia is referring to her own teachings when she says 'teachings of the Sith'. Nihilus betrayed her, and her teachings, therefore it stands to reason that in her pride she would tell the Exile that Nihilus betrayed the teachings of the Sith, rather than telling him that he betrayed her teachings (of what she considered to be "the Sith"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 If Nihilus isn't a sith lord, then the title of the game is misleading. So I'll vote that he is for that reason alone Also, when Kreia says, "he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings... or the Jedi," I note that she says it before we learn that she is Sith herself... which means that the teachings she accuses him of not caring for are hers. So she's scarcely an objective source to evaluate him, her own teachings being those he rejects. And if we know anything about Kreia, it's that takes it VERY personally when someone rejects what she says... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Since Sion was the only one who didn't hate or not care about the Force, KotOR II should've been called 'The Sith Lord' if that title was based on how much someone like the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Since I remember reading that Nihlius inherited some, if not all, of Revan's Sith Empire, then Nihlius must have been a Sith Lord, because only a Sith Lord can inherit a dark Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Architect Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 If Nihilus isn't a sith lord, then the title of the game is misleading. So I'll vote that he is for that reason alone Also, when Kreia says, "he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings... or the Jedi," I note that she says it before we learn that she is Sith herself... which means that the teachings she accuses him of not caring for are hers. So she's scarcely an objective source to evaluate him, her own teachings being those he rejects. And if we know anything about Kreia, it's that takes it VERY personally when someone rejects what she says... Mind you, couldn't 'The Sith Lords' refer to just Traya and Sion? Atris perhaps too? So it's possible that the title isn't misleading. The way I see it, Kreia is right. I agree with her. I don't think Nihilus cared about the teachings of the Sith any more in K2. The impression I always got was that because he was already dead, he was almost inhuman and he was a void in the Force, he didn't think and perceive the galaxy normally any longer, and got to the point where he just views the whole galaxy as a big dinner platter that he's supposed to be eat. I don't think the teachings of the Jedi, the Sith, or anything meant anything to him any more in K2. To me, he basically became a vegetable, and viewed everything as just the same to him. Now to me, if Nihilus indeed didn't care about the teachings of the Sith like I think he didn't, to me, to not care about something infers that you don't follow that teaching, and to me, to be a Sith Lord, you must follow/practice/care about their teachings. Let me give you an example. If a Buddhist walked up to you and said "Hey, I'm a Buddhist, but I don't care about the teachings of Buddhism" then wouldn't you be like "WTF?". That's the way I see Nihilus. After all, you have to ask your self why he's called Nihilus in the first place. How can you be a Sith Lord and nothing at the same time? ahhhh...... you would be right, but I didn't say *THE* Dark Lord, I said a Dark Lord, which in retrospect means the same thing as Sith Lord. You're right. You never said 'the' Dark Lord, but on the other hand, I always thought that a Dark Lord was the leader of his/her Sith faction. I didn't think that there could be more than one Dark Lord in the same armada. Moving to Telos T.B. as this topic isn't about K3... I did it again. Sorry about that RedHawke. My mistake. It's alright... but don't let it happen again! -RH Since I remember reading that Nihlius inherited some, if not all, of Revan's Sith Empire, then Nihlius must have been a Sith Lord, because only a Sith Lord can inherit a dark Empire. Yes, there's no doubt that he was a Sith Lord at some point, but the question is, is he still a Sith Lord in K2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Atris perhaps too? I should post a thread or something, with the dialouge tree, in the near future. I was able to talk to Atris and get her to reveal that she actually did not turn into a Sith Lord after Kreia talked to her (by asking her where Kreia went, after the first battle with Atris and before battling her in the Sith Holocron Room). It seems that she wanted to destroy the Sith just as much as you do...she just wanted to destroy you first. Of course, Atris has fallen to the Dark Side, but she still hate the Sith and wants to smash it. Yes, there's no doubt that he was a Sith Lord at some point, but the question is, is he still a Sith Lord in K2? Yes. Because: "Hey, I'm a Buddhist, but I don't care about the teachings of Buddhism" You say that you are a Buddhist. The fact that you do not care about the teachings of Buddhism is irrevelant. I'll still be staring at the Buddhist who don't believe in Buddhism, but he claims he is a Buddhist. That claim is all that matters. Same thing with Darth Nihlius. He thinks of himself as a Sith Lord. Even if he doesn't believe in the ideas of the Sith, he's a Sith Lord. He has the title. He may not deserve this title. But neither did Darth Malak. Just because someone does not deserve a title does not mean that they do not have it. And Jediphile makes a good point that Kreia did not like Nihlius... == Another point I would like to make, altough it's a proberly useless one, is that a DS Exile may choose the Prestige Class "Sith Lord" that allows him to Force Corrupt his companions as well as get more Force Points. But just because the DS Exile choose the Sith Lord class does not mean that he supports the Sith. In fact, he may appear indifferent, or even hostile to the Sith...as you could say to Kreia, "How can I rest when the Sith are out there wanting to kill me?" The game defines the prestige class Sith Lord as basically a "Dark-Side Uber-Consuler Class". Darth Nihlius uses the Force and his great powers and seems to be a Force Consular. Hence, by using this definition, Darth Nihlius is a Sith Lord, since he is a dark sider and is a consular (as he relies on the Force)...and he's very powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Skywalker Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 ^^^^ Yeah, stick it to the Man.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Architect Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 I should post a thread or something, with the dialouge tree, in the near future. I was able to talk to Atris and get her to reveal that she actually did not turn into a Sith Lord after Kreia talked to her (by asking her where Kreia went, after the first battle with Atris and before battling her in the Sith Holocron Room). It seems that she wanted to destroy the Sith just as much as you do...she just wanted to destroy you first. Of course, Atris has fallen to the Dark Side, but she still hate the Sith and wants to smash it. Well, she was originally supposed to be 'Darth' Traya. Besides, you can still hate and want to destroy the people in the Sith Order and be a Sith Lord. The Sith are supposed to be out for them selves. You say that you are a Buddhist. The fact that you do not care about the teachings of Buddhism is irrevelant. I'll still be staring at the Buddhist who don't believe in Buddhism, but he claims he is a Buddhist. That claim is all that matters. It is relevant. Why the hell would you be a Buddhist, if you don't care about the teachings of Buddhism for? It doesn't make any sense. The same thing applies with Nihilus. If he doesn't care about the teachings of the Sith, then is he really a Sith Lord? I didn't think you could be a Sith Lord, and at the same time, not care about the teachings of the Sith. He sounds more like a rogue Dark Jedi IMO. Same thing with Darth Nihlius. He thinks of himself as a Sith Lord. Even if he doesn't believe in the ideas of the Sith, he's a Sith Lord. He has the title. He may not deserve this title. But neither did Darth Malak. Just because someone does not deserve a title does not mean that they do not have it. And Jediphile makes a good point that Kreia did not like Nihlius... I don't get it. The question is, why would Darth Nihilus think himself as a Sith Lord, if he doesn't believe/care about the ideas of the Sith? Again, that's a head scratcher. Maybe Kreia is wrong about Nihilus after all. Another point I would like to make, altough it's a proberly useless one, is that a DS Exile may choose the Prestige Class "Sith Lord" that allows him to Force Corrupt his companions as well as get more Force Points. But just because the DS Exile choose the Sith Lord class does not mean that he supports the Sith. In fact, he may appear indifferent, or even hostile to the Sith...as you could say to Kreia, "How can I rest when the Sith are out there wanting to kill me?" Hey, I never said that you have to care about the people in the Sith Order to be a Sith Lord. I agree with you. You can still be a Sith Lord, and hate/be against/not care about the people in the Sith Order, but this is their teachings that I'm talking about. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 @Evln - I did but I changed it back. @All who say it could be called The Sith Lords and it doesn't have to refer to Nihilus - Kriea herself states, if you talk to her and gain influence, that the 3 Sith lords hunting you are sion, nihilus and herself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Well, she was originally supposed to be 'Darth' Traya. Besides, you can still hate and want to destroy the people in the Sith Order and be a Sith Lord. Orignally she was supposed to be Darth Traya, but they changed it early in development, and she never was Darth Traya in the final game. Even when you fight her, you see the name "Atris" and not Darth Traya. She never joined the Sith, she is just a Dark Jedi. I'll find the dialouge options and post it to show you. It is relevant. Why the hell would you be a Buddhist, if you don't care about the teachings of Buddhism for? It doesn't make any sense. The same thing applies with Nihilus. If he doesn't care about the teachings of the Sith, then is he really a Sith Lord? I didn't think you could be a Sith Lord, and at the same time, not care about the teachings of the Sith. He sounds more like a rogue Dark Jedi IMO. Well, you did say that he was once a Sith Lord right. Darth Nihlius has never told us that he has given up that title. Or if he had, well, we wouldn't understand that Sith Langauge he spoken of. We don't know if he has given up that title. Titles are important. Kreia said that "Sith is a title, yes, but it is not who I am." Titles tells a lot about you, and in the case of Atris, defined who she really is. Darth Nihlius wants this title of Darth Nihlius. If he doesn't care about the Sith teachings, fine. But he hasn't given up that title. Because he does not care of the Sith Teachings, he may not deserve to be called a Sith Lord. But he still calls himself a Sith Lord. And that is all that counts. It's all about precepetions, all about what he himself believes. I don't get it. The question is, why would Darth Nihilus think himself as a Sith Lord, if he doesn't believe/care about the ideas of the Sith? Again, that's a head scratcher. Maybe Kreia is wrong about Nihilus after all. Note what the term Lord means...GOD. Nihlius is now so powerful, I'd wouldn't be suprised if he kept the title "Sith Lord" to show that he now runs the galaxy, and eat up all the Force Users in the world. He hungeres for power, you know. Or Kreia might be wrong about Nihlius. We don't know. Hey, I never said that you have to care about the people in the Sith Order to be a Sith Lord. I agree with you. You can still be a Sith Lord, and hate/be against/not care about the people in the Sith Order, but this is their teachings that I'm talking about. There's a difference. When I said that, I meant the Sith teachings, not the Sith people. In other words, the DS Exile hate what the Sith preaches, hate the idea of the Dark Side. That is how I interpeted the "how can I rest when the sith is out to get me" response...but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sith'ari Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Gee, it's getting confusing. I think the object of discussion here is just too vague, too much of a perspective thing. Is he a sith lord? what's the definition of sith lord? what about a sith lord who bears the title of "sith lord" and yet who isn't as "sithy" as a sith lord should be? Arrgghh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Orignally she was supposed to be Darth Traya, but they changed it early in development, and she never was Darth Traya in the final game. Even when you fight her, you see the name "Atris" and not Darth Traya. She never joined the Sith, she is just a Dark Jedi. I'll find the dialouge options and post it to show you. Actually, Atris was supposed to be the OPTIONAL Darth Traya, with the other Darth Traya being Kreia. Not sure what would trigger which choice, but I think it depended on the Exile's gender and alignment. But in truth, I'm glad they changed it, since it didn't make much sense to me that Atris would suddenly take over all of Kreia's goals. That said, Atris does seem to believe that she is Darth Traya at one point in the game. When you face her on Telos, you can get her to say: Atris: "Atris... that is not who I am, not any longer. She has not existed for some time, I think. There was always something else within me - it just took time for its voice to be heard." If Atris is no longer Atris, then who is she? Who can she be, other than Darth Traya? Isn't that precisely what Kreia tries to tell her she is, when Kreia mentions that there must always be a Darth Traya? Of course, Kreia is lying to Atris, but Atris believes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Traya is not tha name of an individual person. It is a title used by betrayers, like Kreia. Also Atris, who, as we all can see, betrayed the Jedi. True, she wanted to destroy the Sith, but she used Sith holocrons ans began studying the Dark Side, and it began to consume her. I think that Atris gained the title of Darth Traya, then when the Exile killed her, Kreia took it back. Now to get back on topic, no I don't believe Nihilus is a true Sith Lord. So what if he retained the title. Just because you have the title doesn't mean you are what you say you are. I could say I'm a Martial Arts expert and everyone might believe me, but that doesn't mean I am. Nihilus is a Sith Lord in title, but he is not a true Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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