Vaelastraz Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I don't know if this has ever been discussed before, but there's a quest on Manaan, which is really well done imo, because there is no simple LS / DS way to solve it. It's a question about morality. So what did you do with Sunry? Did you help him out of his misery, despite the fact that he IS guilty? Did you tell the truth, which results in his execution? Or did you make sure he got lifelong imprisonment instead of capital punishment? I'm really curious...it's probably the only quest in both Kotor games where I don't know instantly what I would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Demonius Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 well there are 3 choices you can get him exicuted, a life sentence, and you can get him released. i have done all 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaelastraz Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 I know, but what would you yourself have done in Revan's situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Since my Revan is a Male DarkSider...and that I do Mannan as the third planet before meeting up with Darth Malak on the Leviviatan... I interpret that Revan would fall to the DS, but as a Dark Jedi, and only to help out the Republic and its interest. [Think of it as Atris' falling, and also due to Revan's dark taint, which Revan does not know of] (Only when he learnt that Revan is actually Revan, then Revan would actually betray the Republic and take up his legacy). So, I would protect Sunry. In the game, I failed to gain enough evidence. I just needed to have the hotel manager testify but I forgot to get Dominate Mind. So I was stuck with "Life-Time Imprisonment". Jolee states that in the future, Sunry would get aquitted...but then again, since I'm leader of the Sith Empire, I don't know if I would have attacked and destroyed Mannan during that time... For the canonical Revan? Haven't fully played as him yet, but I'd guess I would refuse to defend Sunry, get forced by Sunry to defend him, defend him succesfully, get Sunry aquitted, and then cry myself to sleep. If I was Revan? I would tattle on Sunry and get that man killed off. If the Republic is that willing to do whatever it takes to win, then the Republic does not deserve to exist. It is just as Dark Sided as the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I got him declared innocent (even though he wasn't, but neither were the Sith) and released, but mostly to annoy the Selkath, not to help out the Republic or Sunry himself. I also felt a bit sorry for his wife, even though he cheated on her. There is no Justice to be had on Manaan anyway, only Law, as Jolee comments afterwards. Annoying Police State with few redeeming qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 stoffe, I don't really think the Selkatah run a police state. I think they were the equviliant of what we know as the Republic of Switzerland. They wanted to be netural, because they realize that if they side with one faction or another, then both sides will blow the planet up. The Selkath would be fine if Sunry killed the Sith spy outside of Mannan's territory, but since it happened over on its territory, it has to walk a fine line to make sure that the Sith and the Jedi don't start slaughtering Selkath and burning the entire planet. It is much more interesting than having a planet that allies with one side totally or another. And due to my comparison with the Republic of Switzerland, I would not be suprised if the Skeltah vote in elections, and therefore, they would be a democracy, not a police state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 stoffe, I don't really think the Selkatah run a police state. Open to debate since there probably isn't much evidence one way or the other in the game. However the abundance of guards with instakill blasters, those surveillance drones they have floating about everywhere, and the fact they even have spy monitors in the Embassies of foreign powers (and shamelessly admit as much), strict control about who's allowed to leave and enter Ahto, them keeping prisoners in cages not large enough to even sit down and their happiness to deal out death penalties gives me more the impression of a tightly controlled Police State than anything else. The whole lot of them being xenophobes doesn't exactly help their case (though that seems to be more norm than exception with many races in Star Wars it seems). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan Baloney Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I've done all three. The last time I played the trial I tried to help but he still went to jail for a life sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 However the abundance of guards with instakill blasters, those surveillance drones they have floating about everywhere, and the fact they even have spy monitors in the Embassies of foreign powers (and shamelessly admit as much), strict control about who's allowed to leave and enter Ahto, them keeping prisoners in cages not large enough to even sit down and their happiness to deal out death penalties gives me more the impression of a tightly controlled Police State than anything else. The whole lot of them being xenophobes doesn't exactly help their case (though that seems to be more norm than exception with many races in Star Wars it seems). Major QFE! Those darn Selkath dictators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Varen Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 For my games, whether I'm LS or DS, Sunry is guilty but mine always let the Republic try to free him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 If I was Revan and was in the same position that he was in the game, I would probably let Sunry go free, even finding out that he actually killed her. The whole thing of getting DS points for letting him go if you know he's guilty is kind of silly. I mean, how many Sith had Revan killed and would kill after he left Manaan? Killing a Sith is not a Dark Side act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 The whole thing of getting DS points for letting him go if you know he's guilty is kind of silly. I mean, how many Sith had Revan killed and would kill after he left Manaan? Killing a Sith is not a Dark Side act. But he BROKE the law. Not only that, but he cheated on his wife, and also hid his actions, and then tried to frame the Sith for framing him. Sunry is indeed a DS murderer, and should have killed the Sith outside of Mannan, where it is legal to kill Sith, rather than inside of Mannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I've tried (no pun initially intended) all the options, but most often have cleared him. Gotta throw my lot in w/Stoffe and RH. Besides, the fish WERE supremely annoying. Killing a sith wasn't intrisically DS, but the manner in which it was done in Sunry's case (it was premeditated, even if he somewhat regretted killing her) is the cause of the dark points. You help him break the law, despite his obvious guilt. Technically, that would make you an accessory after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 But he BROKE the law. Not only that, but he cheated on his wife, and also hid his actions, and then tried to frame the Sith for framing him. Sunry is indeed a DS murderer, and should have killed the Sith outside of Mannan, where it is legal to kill Sith, rather than inside of Mannan. I don't think the Force concerns itself with the sentient-made laws on the vast variety of planets in the galaxy. Nor does it care about the affiliation or organization membership of someone who's being killed (to make it "legal"). It's more a matter of how the killing was done, not who was killed. He didn't kill her in battle, he didn't defend himself from attack; he shot her in the back while she was there with non-violent intent. Killing in self-defense isn't a Darkside act by Force morality, but what Sunry did was not self-defense. It was planned murder, no matter if the victim was a Sith Lord or a saint. Still, you can get Sunry free at the trial without getting any Darkside points. My paragon lightsider character got through the whole game without getting a single DS point, and she got Sunry free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawaJoey Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 What do you need to get Sunry free? I always get Gluupor, that's easy, and I know about the hotel manager, but I'm usually unable to convince him (ie my persuade score is too low, I don't have dominate mind, and don't like to bribe people). Aside from him, what do you need to do. Does whether or not you know the truth affect the outcome? I usually end up doing my best, which ends up with him getting life. I really don't like the Selkath. They're very arrogant, they're not very intelligent or rational, and they are extremely intolerant, but their biggest complaints are about how irrational and stupid outsiders and humans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canderous_ordo1 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 well it seems that all the time i get him killed or sent to have a life time in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 What do you need to get Sunry free? I always get Gluupor, that's easy, and I know about the hotel manager, but I'm usually unable to convince him (ie my persuade score is too low, I don't have dominate mind, and don't like to bribe people). Aside from him, what do you need to do. Does whether or not you know the truth affect the outcome? If you know the truth, you can just hand the footage over to the Skeltah during the trial to kill him. Actually, you need to persuade the Hotel Manager in order to make your cause better. You have no choice in the manner. You have to have high persuasion, Dominate Mind, or a willingness to bribe. So, just bite the bullet. You could, you know, go somewhere else, level up, and then come back later with Dominate Mind. Or just part with your credits, you get no DS points if you bribe people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Skywalker Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 What I do, is find the evidence against him, and then show it to the judges, so he DIES.... Mwhahahahahaha.... really though, he is a cold blooded killer, and should be executed like one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innocent Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 The whole thing of getting DS points for letting him go if you know he's guilty is kind of silly. I mean, how many Sith had Revan killed and would kill after he left Manaan? Killing a Sith is not a Dark Side act. When you kill Sith, they are facing you with intent to kill you, and are armed. Also, you do not try to hide what you do. Sunry shot Elassa in the back, and then didn't own up. That's almost the exact opposite of the way Revan works through most of the game. Getting Sunry off really is DS. LS characters want to see justice served above the politics of the Republic or Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Actually, weren't the DS points for trying to use the force to get Sunry to confess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaV™ Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I was basically his executioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kata_mad Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I always went with getting him off scott free since it would have been best for the repuplic i.e. no reducion of kolto supplies, I think thats how a LS revan would be. Sometime you have to do a 'dark side' act for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SykoRevan Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Were I in Revan's postion, I would have helped Sunry get off, since he did seem to regret cheating on his wife, and Sunry wasn't evil, or corrupt. Besides, as the Jedi Exile (or at least my Exile) would say, "nobody is beyond redemption." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Were I in Revan's postion, I would have helped Sunry get off, since he did seem to regret cheating on his wife, and Sunry wasn't evil, or corrupt. You don't consider it "evil" to murder a woman in cold blood just because he learned that she was spying on him? It's certainly ruthless and brutal at the very least. That she was (most likely) "evil" and ruthless as well doesn't change that fact, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allronix Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 The scenario I run in my head is slightly different than the one in game. In my head, I see Jolee as the Arbiter, so I follow through as Jolee would. I gather all the evidence - the tape, getting Firith Me to testify Elassa was packing a lightsaber, getting Gluupor to admit he planted evidence. I do not bribe the hotel manager. With all that in hand, I talk to Elora, get her to admit Sunry was cheating, and then throw the lot at Sunry's feet before the trial. Usually, I try to tell the Selkath he was guilty, only to have Sunry squawk and the judges say "Well, you're his defense attorney, like it or not." The basis of American Constitutional law is that it is better to let a hundred guilty man go free than jail one innocent one, so there really is no winning. I do my best to defend him because the Rule of Law demands it. From there, I let that loudmouth Sith procecutor hang himself, getting Sunry off the hook and the Sith a Contempt of Court charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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