Endurance, not Health

[SilentScope001]

The Endurance system, after I re-read over and over, actually can be used to make something more substantive, altough I dislike it.

 

Endurance of you: 100%.

Endurance of your Enemy: 100%.

 

If either side's Endurance level goes down to 50%, you suffer an increased chance of having Instant Death, as you get so tired.

 

So, in a middle of a battle=

The Ulitmate Jedi Padwan Who Is Destined to Blow up True Sith: 40%.

Random Old True Sith: 20%.

 

In this situation, the UJPWISDBTS has a chance of getting killed. Of course, the Random Old True Sith is more weaker than you. But it's the Random Old True Sith's turn.

 

Oops. Looks like the Random Old True Sith got lucky on his dice roll and decapiated you! Time to use your "Restart" Force Power!

 

Of course, I dislike this system, and for obivous reasons.

 

(EDIT: Oh, and please forgive me if this turns out to be nothing more than making a straw-man's argument. I really was thinking that could very well be a possible idea for the Endurance System, making it more different from HPs, which I see that you are getting at.)

[deathdisco]

I'd just be happy if all misses showed a blocked/doged animation. That's an animation issue not an D20 issue. Lightsabers can make contact without killing, but I bet it burns like heck.

[Mister Chief]

Basically, your "life" needs to slowly decrease as you fight and hit, but you don't actually hit them in the animation until they are dead. Fairly simple, and a good idea to make the fights look more like real SW fights. Blasters and force powers would still work the same.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Basically, your "life" needs to slowly decrease as you fight and hit, but you don't actually hit them in the animation until they are dead. Fairly simple, and a good idea to make the fights look more like real SW fights. Blasters and force powers would still work the same.

 

Of course that if the Force Powers and Blasters would work directly against HP, then they would have to be weaker, otherwise, it wouldnt be fair.

[Jediphile]

No it would be changing more than a letter.

 

Combat animations would always have parries and dodges, till someone gets "tired". Then a blow penetrates that opponent's defense.

 

That's already how it works in d20 Star Wars tabletop. There are no hit points as in d20 D&D, but instead there is Vitality and Wounds. Vitality builds just as hit points do in D&D, while Wounds is always the same as your Constitution, and basically taking damage or using force powers drain Vitality until there is nothing left. Usually you cannot use force powers without Vitality (though there are feats to let you drain from Wounds instead). Damage is done to Wounds only if Vitality is drained, or if a critical hit is rolled. When a character has no Vitality left, he is exhausted, but there is little consequence of that. If a character's Wounds value is gone, however, he dies.

 

Don't ask me why it wasn't implemented like that in the CRPG, though. After all, it would have been very easy to do. I still think it's a very unrealistic system, though. Not that I want complete realism in any RPG or CRPG, but the d20 way of doing it always seemed so stupid and silly to me that it verged on insult... Previous editions of D&D were no better, though.

[Prime]

Of course! So, how about make a mod that replace Hit Points with...er..."Endurance Points!"

 

Realism FTW!

But I don't think endurace points is any more realistic. tiring someone out is usually not how a melee fight is won.

 

But more importantly, sometimes gameplay considerations have to be taken above realism.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

tiring someone out is usually not how a melee fight is won.

True, but neither is slicing someone in the head 20 times with a lightsaber.

[Prime]

Sure it is!

 

Look at all thoe fights in YouTube!

[PoiuyWired]

That's already how it works in d20 Star Wars tabletop. There are no hit points as in d20 D&D, but instead there is Vitality and Wounds.

 

Well, its essentially replacing the -10 HP to death thing. Its also in one of the alternative rules suggestion in D&D.

 

Well technically you can do it like WhiteWolf, where every damage you take reduces your performance. But StarWars now is essentially a D20 system, so is kotor. So basically, don't change anything that is not too broken. Instead spend more time on improving the storyline and gameplay.

[Mister Chief]

All that needs to happen is the animation be fixed. A hit will still take down health, but would be shown with a block or perhaps a small hit. A miss is the character dodging completley, while the only time a LS actual hits in the animation is when you kill your opponent. More animations the better.

 

Blasters and force powers would still take down health the same.

[SilentScope001]

Actually, I like hit animations when I actually hit the person. It's intensly painful to be hit by a sword, and I like it to see it.

 

Besides, why should lightsabers be considered "instant-kill"?

[jonathan7]

Actually, I like hit animations when I actually hit the person. It's intensly painful to be hit by a sword, and I like it to see it.

 

Besides, why should lightsabers be considered "instant-kill"?

 

Because they go through anything... Obi Wan is taken down and out of the fight by just two glancing blows from Dooku. The whole point of Lightsabers is how lethal they are unless someone is wearing cortosis weave armour.

[Mister Chief]

 

Besides, why should lightsabers be considered "instant-kill"?

 

Because they are....... If it can cut through 3 inches of battleship door, I am pretty sure that getting hit by one is going to do more than hurt. The only time that somone gets hit by one in the movies and lives, they lose a hand, etc... Obi wan survived because I don't think Count Dooku was trying to kill him, or he was trying to kill him slowly.

[DreadWizardDM]

This arguement is far older than any computer game. This goes all the way back to D&D "Basic / Expert" editions. I remember a guy who played D&D a couple times and quit due to the simple fact he had hit a villian with a dagger over 40 times before managing to kill it lol. The fact of the matter is this, you the gamer have to realise that "hit points" are not just how much damage you can take, it is the overall ability of your characters ability to soak damage, dodge, feint, etc etc etc during battle. I doubt that this game mechanic will ever be changed in the near future, if its not broke dont fix it.

 

Edit:

Obi wan survived because I don't think Count Dooku was trying to kill him, or he was trying to kill him slowly.

 

Refer to my above post.. lets take a look at Obi Wans "hit points".. sure a lightsaber can be an instakill weapon, however if we look at it from game mechanics in terms of "hit points" Obi Wan may have had enough combat training to avoid the majority of the swing. Hence why he was only wounded and not killed. Remember combat is not simply saying "ok take a swing at me and see if you hit... ok now my turn to swing at you".. its supposed to be a measure of someones abilities. Lets look at some real life history here, how about warriors on the battlefield in 300 AD? If they survived it was due to skill, luck, ability to dodge, forsee what their oppenent was doing with his blade, take advantage of openings... (all a measure of "hit points").

[Jediphile]

True enough, but hit points or whatever name you choose to give them still lead to really stupid situations. For example, there is no way a highly experienced warrior like Boromir (from "The Lord of the Rings") could have been killed by three measely arrows in D&D, as he indeed was in the movie. I'd much rather have a system where high experience makes it exceedingly unlikely that you'll take damage at all, but where a single perfect hit can still kill you. After all, no 10th-level D&D fighter is going to be scared by a single, lowly orc with a bow, which doesn't exactly do much to suspend disbelief, I fear. I feel the argument is even more relevant in CRPGs, where you can just reload if things go bad. It's what we all do anyway...

[SilentScope001]

Because they are....... If it can cut through 3 inches of battleship door, I am pretty sure that getting hit by one is going to do more than hurt. The only time that somone gets hit by one in the movies and lives, they lose a hand, etc... Obi wan survived because I don't think Count Dooku was trying to kill him, or he was trying to kill him slowly.

 

Lightsabers are the most powerful meele weapon IN THE GAME. Why make them even more better?

 

That's all you need to know. Want to make them instant kill? Activate Master Flurry with Master Speed and a trooper dies? Bah. I say, Bah! And you want the game to be "harder" and more like the movies where troopers pose a challenge to a Jedi? Well, why not have you struggle against a Sith trooper? You are a Jedi...but you are also mortal.

 

And no way you are going to have a person automatically die randomly becuase of an arrow. That may be realistic, but I'm not aiming for realism, I'm aiming for a good story. In fact, I actually prefer "Storyteller" games with just a GM giving you a character sheet and being the sole arbitary desicionmaker. No HPs, No stats, No nothing.

 

...And if you want to Nerf "Restart", just have the save file get deleted when you get killed, as they do in "Rouge"-style games.

[PoiuyWired]

That is where natural 20s comes in play. Remember the old rtules where you get three Nat 20s in a role you get an instant kill? Well, I don't mind people hyping up criticals a bit, like the "infinite critical" variant where you keep adding up damage if your keep rolling nat 20s in a row. It is POSSABLE, in such system, to kill really big things in one hit, if you are REWALLY lucky...

 

But, the system goes the other way also, do you want your hero to be capped dead by a random sith grunt with a lucky shot? For me its all good, there is a chance...

 

As for the "delete hat save game" approach in the "rogue series" we all know that we do backups for our savegames...

[Mister Chief]

You guys don't realize what I am saying. Leave the damage how it is. Once you get the life all the way down, an animation with you hitting them and killing them should occur. up to that point, A hit should be represented by a samall hit (Obi-wan esque) or a barely blocked hit. The life would still go down as normal.....

[Titanius Anglesmith]

In all truth, I don't really care what it's called (whether "EP" or "HP") nor do I care about the intricate mechanics of whatever system it uses, I just don't want a guy to still be standing after I slice him multiple times with a lightsaber. Any kind of "blocking", "small hit", and "finishing" animations would be fine. The most important thing to me is that it looks a bit more real.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

In all truth, I don't really care what it's called (whether "EP" or "HP") nor do I care about the intricate mechanics of whatever system it uses, I just don't want a guy to still be standing after I slice him multiple times with a lightsaber. Any kind of "blocking", "small hit", and "finishing" animations would be fine. The most important thing to me is that it looks a bit more real.

 

 

... And a little less like an hack'n-slash game, please.