Sexist Education System

[TK-8252]

No, it would mean people would actually go to school to learn instead of a reason to stare at eachother.

 

A lot of people wouldn't go to school. Especially when you consider that the school system in America just sucks and doesn't teach you anything. The only reason some people go to school is because there are redeeming qualities... such as it being a place for hooking up, or showing off, or whatever. Take away those things and then people won't go period.

[True_Avery]

A lot of people wouldn't go to school. Especially when you consider that the school system in America just sucks and doesn't teach you anything. The only reason some people go to school is because there are redeeming qualities... such as it being a place for hooking up, or showing off, or whatever. Take away those things and then people won't go period.

There is nothing, or very little wrong with the current education system at all besides the students of the "me!" generation. You are making an excuse in saying the system sucks, and is thus not worth it "because it teaches you nothing." No, you teach yourself nothing. The teachers teach you a lot, you just refuse to listen.

 

Oh, people would go to school because their parents would still make them and law would still make them. Maybe you would drop out, but then you prove my point of poor upraising and the fact there is nothing wrong with the schools but with the students and the parents who raised them. Some people go to school to learn and better themselves, some go to look at people. If the people that go for the sole fact they like to stare at a girl's breasts drop out... well, we will have an influx of people into dirty jobs and restraunts. Which could be good, because that means I don't have to trust them with something important since obviously they are not willing to do what it takes to become a working part of society.

 

And, if schools are now truly about "showing off" then I deeply... deeply fear for America when they actually grow up to control this country. I don't give a damn how good you look, because in 20-30 years that tight skin, amazing hair, and perfect body goes away when age steps in. Your mind lasts your entire life, your teenage body only lasts a little. If you, and everybody else would drop out when fashion is no longer a factor in education simply because you cannot "show off" then there is nothing wrong with the schools. The problem is brain dead kids being raised by brain dead parents in a completely lacking society controled by brain dead adults.

[TK-8252]

Sorry but our schools suck. They don't teach you anything. Just look at how European schools do in comparison to ours. It's not the students that are the problem, it's our government that underfunds schools, sets a retarded curriculum, and discourages private competition.

 

well, we will have an influx of people into dirty jobs and restraunts.

 

Actually no. If more people started dropping out, then more employers would start accepting drop-outs. Otherwise they wouldn't have enough employees. And you would be suprised how well drop-outs can do, especially when self-employed. This whole "oh if you don't go to school, you'll work at McDonalds all your life" line is pretty much crap. Don't mistake me for glorifying dropping out, however. I'm just saying, it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

[Totenkopf]

Actually, True, there are a lot of things wrong with education in this country (from the NEA being more concerned with $$ and politics than education to social promotion rather than skill based advancement). That said, there are many good schools in the country as well, and pockets of learning actually taking place in many substandard institutions. Part of the problem with education in this country is that the inmates often run the asylum. Discipline is difficult b/c the kids know they can get a lawyer to gum up the works, should, God forbid, anyone try to straighten them out. A lot of books are boring or factually incorrect. Students, unfortunately, need to be motivated to learn, and a lot of teacher's are often poor, but can't be gotten rid of b/c of issues like tenure/seniority. Top it off with often hostile parents who were poor students themselves, and it's a wonder many kids learn anything at all. I almost marvel that teachers in the public system can maintain the desire to stick it out in many areas. Good teachers can often make a difference, but it's an uphill struggle in a system that's largely abandonned them. This in no way exonerates students who won't make the effort to learn, nor their parents who won't get involved in their kids education either. But to place all the blame on the students is shortsighted.

 

TK, they might accept more dropouts, but the pay would be abysmally low in comparison to the wages received by those who didn't drop out. Look at the current disparity between even what HS and University graduates get over their lifetimes. That isn't absolute, btw, but a good rule of thumb. Some people who drop out of school are very bright (higher IQ), but most don't tend to be. There is more to success than a diploma/ged, but they are often necessary for most people. It sucks, but it's true. I used to wonder about the expectations of education when I'd get results in 3rd grade which said I was operating at levels expected from someone 1/2 way through their senior year of hs.

[True_Avery]

Actually, True, there are a lot of things wrong with education in this country (from the NEA being more concerned with $$ and politics than education to social promotion rather than skill based advancement). That said, there are many good schools in the country as well, and pockets of learning actually taking place in many substandard institutions. Part of the problem with education in this country is that the inmates often run the asylum. Discipline is difficult b/c the kids know they can get a lawyer to gum up the works, should, God forbid, anyone try to straighten them out. A lot of books are boring or factually incorrect. Students, unfortunately, need to be motivated to learn, and a lot of teacher's are often poor, but can't be gotten rid of b/c of issues like tenure/seniority. Top it off with often hostile parents who were poor students themselves, and it's a wonder many kids learn anything at all. I almost marvel that teachers in the public system can maintain the desire to stick it out in many areas. Good teachers can often make a difference, but it's an uphill struggle in a system that's largely abandonned them. This in no way exonerates students who won't make the effort to learn, nor their parents who won't get involved in their kids education either. But to place all the blame on the students is shortsighted.

I agree, and after thinking that over I find I worded what I was trying put across badly.

 

Schools are indeed bad, but not as bad as I think people put that out to be. Yes, they suck, but that does not mean they teach you nothing at all. I learned a lot from my schools even though my school was lacking in a lot, I still got good grades and absorbed what was being taught over students who did nothing but talk in class. But, that may just be personal experience with my schools as I know there are schools out there that are simply terrible... like another high school down my street.

 

How society currently works nowadays probably has some blame for this. Schools have little money, and we all know that and that is why it makes a lot of them pretty terrible. But that is the governments fault, not the school systems. And the government, to be quiet honest, is all the people who are under that government. People scream and yell about the education system all the time, but since a majority vote does not seem to get money into schools, it just looks like everybody is a hypacrit not willing to pay the extra tax dollars or vote people in who actually care.

 

I agree, forcing all the blame onto the kids is short-sighted. Schools that get a lot of money do great. But, the -best- schools are uniform schools with parents that get actively involved with the school. If kids are willing to drop out so casually and see education as simply irrelevent to life (In which some ways it is), then that fault can be put on the upraising of the child. Upraising includes both parents and the society they grew up in.

 

If we fed more money into the system then some thing would happen. Teachers would actually compete for the jobs because it would pay well, bringing in higher quality teaching. All gear and books up to date. Classrooms that looks nice. Studies have shown that high money schools get better grade averages and less drop outs, but what does that still say about the kids that drop out?

 

Blame can be put on the schools, yes, but I still think far too much blame is put on the schools because the parents blaming the schools are not willingto step up to the plate and take some responsibility for how they raised their kid.

 

But, as has been said, dropping out does not end your life and yes many people do great even after they have dropped out. But just because some do better, does not mean you will do better. All these boys dropping out... not doing work... sure, the dropping out part can be ignored in a lot of situations... but what does that say about you as a person? I think far too few people view school as a job. School is a test for real life, and it is not like a job is suddenly heaven. The majority of jobs suck. School sucks a lot of the time. But what kind of habits and such have you given yourself by quitting your job of school, not doing the work in school, etc? Ya know, in school you can refuse to do work and goof off. You goof off at our job and refuse to do work... you get fired. As a teacher told me one day, "a lot of things in school arn't fair, but a lot of things in life arn't fair either. You can quit school, ignore the rules, and come late to school if you want to, but we punish you for being late to class not to anoy you, but because being late to your -job- after school means you get fired. It is about building habits, good habits." Throwing school off as not being worth it does not show much to an employer. You can be freaking brilliant, but when you sign on for a career one of the first things they will ask you is "why did you dump school?" Because, how can they trust you to do a job you might not like if you were not willing to do school just because it wasn't very bearable? Dropping out is not a bad thing in of itself, but it does not exactly reflect on your person very well.

 

All in all, the blame seems to fall evenly on everybody as I am still having some debates with myself on who could solidly be blames for this. I tried the parents and students thing, but it seems just as convienent as blaming the school.

 

But, mostly I'm throwing things out to see how it debates and such. So far my opinion on this has changed a few times over the cource of this thread.

[JediMaster12]

If kids are willing to drop out so casually and see education as simply irrelevent to life (In which some ways it is), then that fault can be put on the upraising of the child. Upraising includes both parents and the society they grew up in.

So true. While I was classed with the AP/IB kids, I still got to be around the college prep kids. Those were the two classifications. Anyway it shocked me when I would hear students say yeah I ditched four times this week and I am still getting an A. It made me wonder what was going on.

 

As to whether or not being required to wear uniforms is a critical factor in school success seems trivial. There have been cases where a low income school has surpassed expectations in state testing scores and in the classrooms. True parent involvment helps a bit but I think part of it too has to do with the faculty. Yeah there is always the problem of having those who have taught for so many years that they think they know everything but there are some who think that students aren't worth their time and it shows. If you don't set the bar above expectations, how do you expect students to set their own goals?

[Darth InSidious]

Your teaching of history, I am told, is in particular need of rebuilding.

[Totenkopf]

Yeah, even in the accelerated classes. I took AP US History in hs and we never got much past the Depression era, and that class was divided up over two years. What we glibly call "contemporary" (post WW2) history was relegated to about a week or so of ad hoc discussions before finals week. Pretty much the same with European history, though that was only a one year course. Well, there's always college/uni to fill in the rest of those gaps with specialized courses. O'course now history classes are even more blinkered b/c special interests have turned them into PC drivel. Thank God I managed to miss that.

 

@True--well, a fair amount of money is thrown at education, but throwing $$ at the problem only guarantees corruption, not results. The system needs to be reformed, not rewarded, due to it's general incompetence. Afterall, the basic math and science that you teach at lower levels of school hasn't changed that much in centuries. While bells and whistles are nice, the basics aren't that expensive. Produce a competent student body with what you get first, then we'll talk about extras. The libs love to talk about more funding for education b/c it's always great to hide behind "do it for the children" where people can't see the real agenda, which is to pump more soft cash into the democrat party machine. I'm NOT saying the other side is saintly, but that's just the way it is.

[mimartin]

There is a difference between new experiences and setting someone up to fail.

 

You are making an accusation against every school administrator, principle and teacher in the US. You’re not really saying that you believe there is this huge conspiracy being perpetrated against male students to purposely set young male children up to fail? Males still control most of the power in government how would they allow this to happen? Why would they do this?

 

What I believe is beyond our education system in need of overhauling is that the system is fairer now that it has ever been in its brief history. Females have caught up and passed males on a level playing field and now we males are crying foul instead of seeing it for what it is a challenge.

 

This really isn’t a gender problem as last I checked parents came in both sexes. It is up to parents to care enough about their child to get involved in his/her education. If the child is failing then find out the reasons and work to correct the problem. Sometime we should look in the mirror before blaming the teacher.

[Jae Onasi]

Here's a newsflash:

Schools are not here for your entertainment. They are not here for you to find someone to 'hook up with' and get laid. They are not here to be be your social outlet.

 

Schools are here to EDUCATE.

 

Buck it up and deal with it. You can either do the work and learn something or you can handicap yourself by sitting around wasting time coming up with ways to try to get out of the work and not learn. You think you'll be able to sit around doing nothing on a job? Think again. It's better for you to learn some good work ethics and knowledge now while you're in school rather than learn it the hard way when you have to support yourself on a minimum-wage paycheck.

 

Part of the problem is that we're trying to bring everyone to a mediocre level instead of accepting the fact that we're mostly average, but some people with incredibly low IQs aren't going to do well and some incredibly brilliant people are going to go a lot farther than average. Very rarely is the teacher the problem, though I've met some spectacularly awful ones who need to be kicked out of the system.

 

Part of the problem is over-bureaucratized systems that make teachers and allied professionals waste a ton of time and money on idiotic paperwork and useless programs instead of concentrating on using that time and money where it really belongs, which is educating children.

 

Part of the problem is also the fact that a lot of parents think it's the school's job to do everything, and they're too busy or too lazy to put some work into their own kids' education. They also don't accept the fact that little Johnny and Suzy aren't perfect, and aren't always going to do the work well. They expect their kids to get perfect grades without any work, and they are doing their kids no favors by not being active participants in their children's education.

[JediMaster12]

Your teaching of history, I am told, is in particular need of rebuilding.

I wouldn't know about that since I don't go to the history books but straight to the primary doc. That and I had good professors. Plus I am such a cynic with history that it makes conversation enlightening with mach.

 

I would say curriculum all around needs rebuilding.

[Totenkopf]

Here's a newsflash:

You think you'll be able to sit around doing nothing on a job? Think again.

 

Yeah, you've got to at least get a union job/tenure/primo executive position before you can get paid for nothin'.

[GarfieldJL]

Okay here's the situation:

 

Boys develop fine motor skills later than girls, that affects one's ability to write. So in many cases when writing is now being introduced, boys are not physically ready for it. I know first hand about problems with fine motor skills cause for the longest time it took me 5 minutes to write one word in cursive, it was that difficult for me. Yes I have dysgraphia, but that just goes to so I'm a more extreme example but still. I got F's in handwriting, got good grades in other subjects but D's and F's in handwriting. It had nothing to do with lazyiness though, in most boys their fine motor skills eventually match girls, but in my case it's not something that practice helps much. It finally ended up where the school was forced to provide a word processor in my classroom and at home for my use for school work. Which they originally tried to block but ended up having to do so because my mother actually knew the law concerning people with disabilities.

 

Next there is the fact that girls actually have an advantage in a classroom where you sit at a desk doing worksheets all day. It's a lot harder on boys because they need the external stimulus, while video games do provide stimuli, they also need to have hands on things. Like actual science experiments too teach, so they actually experience something for themselves.

 

For instance in 5th grade my teacher had us come up with an experiment using 2 sheets of newspaper, staples, tape, and x amount of string. We had to build something so that an egg could survive a drop of approximately 15-20 feet. And we couldn't build a parachute. See something with educational value without worksheets, without just sitting at desks etc. I'm really glad I had that teacher, because if I had some other teachers that make you sit at a desk all day I would have pretty much given up on school thinking everything was boring. The books we had in 1st and 2nd grade were awful, so boring that I didn't want to read, my mom got me interested in Hardy Boys which were at a 4th grade reading level when I was in 2nd grade. I became an avid reader after that, the problem isn't laziness the problem is the method of teaching causes boredom especially in boys. While this affects girls too, they are better able to cope than boys.

 

As far as throwing money at the problem, that doesn't help anything when the quality of teachers is lousy. Many schools spend the money on some stupid building project or sometimes ends up going to the salary of adminstrators.

 

While poor parenting is partially to blame, it is not the sole cause for people doing poorly in school and it is definately not the cause for the disproportionate number of boys doing poorly in school compared to girls. What seems to be laziness is actually where they've completely given up because they are so frustrated with it. It has nothing to do with the "me" generation, if it did it would be the same between boys and girls.

 

So yes there is discrimination of boys in public schools, either deliberately or unintentionally.

[Lord Spitfire]

The school system is not singling out males. They are not mistreating them. They are simply doing exactly what they have been doing for years: Running a crappy education system to get kids through school. (snipped for brevity) But I went to the newest High School in the district. Brand New. Less than 5 years old. Best teachers, best books, best computers, best everything in the entire area. The guys still failed. Girls still failed. Boys still passed. Girls still passed. I have seen some really really really crappy schools in the area. Classes that are made of cardboard boxes stapled into walls. People still passed, and still failed in both genders.

 

You're right. A lot of children these days are spoiled and don't care about schoolwork, and there are a few in my high school that do such, though I go to a good school, so there are few of those people.

 

In my school, the school works it teachers to both genders' strengths. I'm in the accelarated group, which is made upof almost equal amount of girls and boys.

 

The people who passed earned it. The people who failed earned it. And the people who failed did so of their own free will. The people who passed did so of their own free will.

 

Thats my opinion.

 

This I agree with. My great grandfather was raised up in a small village in India, and there was only one, single-building, school in the entire village. His father died of the plague when he was seven. The school had few facilities, no computers, no electricity, very few books, overcrowded number of students, not enough money for enough uniforms, and things like that.

 

Yet he worked hard, went to college, and ontop of that gota doctor's degree. It doesn't matter what school you go to in the end, but how hard you work.

[GarfieldJL]

So you're saying boys are lazier than girls? Cause that's what it looks like you're saying. As a guy I take offense to that especially since due to my disabilities I've had to work 3 times harder than the average student to show my potential.

 

 

Seriously, if it were just laziness it would be both boys and girls failing at an even rate. It wouldn't be a disproportionate number of boys being put in special ed, compaired to girls. I've seen special ed classes and the schools tried to put me in one and thank goodness my mom threatened to take them to court if they tried cause I'd have been bored to tears, there was about 4 boys to every girl. 80% of the special ed class was boys, and you want to tell me that it's due to laziness!

[TK-8252]

Schools are here to EDUCATE.

 

Then the schools need to educate, not just babysit.

 

[...] when you have to support yourself on a minimum-wage paycheck.

 

I get paid more than minimum wage just bagging groceries. And I'm still in high school.

 

Part of the problem is over-bureaucratized systems that make teachers and allied professionals waste a ton of time and money on idiotic paperwork and useless programs instead of concentrating on using that time and money where it really belongs, which is educating children.

 

Part of the problem is also the fact that a lot of parents think it's the school's job to do everything, and they're too busy or too lazy to put some work into their own kids' education. They also don't accept the fact that little Johnny and Suzy aren't perfect, and aren't always going to do the work well. They expect their kids to get perfect grades without any work, and they are doing their kids no favors by not being active participants in their children's education.

 

I fully agree with you on these points.

[True_Avery]

Then the schools need to educate, not just babysit.

Then maybe you should listen. Don't know your school education system, but saying to yourself the system is useless seems more like an excuse not to care at all.

 

I get paid more than minimum wage just bagging groceries. And I'm still in high school.

Are you going to make a career out of that? Jobs don't seem to care much, but a career is indeed going to look at how you did in High School regardless of how bad you think the education system is. Also, I am not familar to where you live but out here it is impossible for live on anywhere close to minimum wage.

 

Seriously, if it were just laziness it would be both boys and girls failing at an even rate. It wouldn't be a disproportionate number of boys being put in special ed, compaired to girls. I've seen special ed classes and the schools tried to put me in one and thank goodness my mom threatened to take them to court if they tried cause I'd have been bored to tears, there was about 4 boys to every girl. 80% of the special ed class was boys, and you want to tell me that it's due to laziness!

I was in one of those classes myself, and there were indeed about 5 boys to every girl.

 

I think both genders are lazy, but on average it seem that boys nowdays are lazier than girls in classes. Now, I am not saying you yourself are because a lot of the smartest people I knew in school were actually boys... but the majority of failing were also boys. Why? I will say it again and again and again. Because they simply did not do the work. Please, don't try to defend the boys in my class who I honestly knew were there only because of the social intereaction. They failed -themself-, plain and simple. The girls -worked-. They -worked-. If you are really going to use that silly "boys have loaded up energy" excuse, then please keep it in elementary school and middle school. In High School you should be mature enough to control your energy and have the mental capability to sit down and do work regardless of your handwriting. I knew boys with -terrible- handwriting as well as girls who still got A's in class.

 

The system is not sexist, the students are just lazy and refuse to do the work like children.

[TK-8252]

Then maybe you should listen. Don't know your school education system, but saying to yourself the system is useless seems more like an excuse not to care at all.

 

I have listened, usually do listen, and have made up my mind that what the teacher is forced by the bureaucrats at the school board to say is not useful to the advancement of my education. Just because it's school does not make it helpful, useful, or of any value. Perhaps the schools need to teach things that ACTUALLY might help you with a career, instead of just forcing you to do book reports on boring books that have no impact on society. That's called babysitting.

 

Are you going to make a career out of that?

 

I certainly don't except to work at a grocery store my whole life, unless I was a manager or something, but I know a lot of older guys and older ladies at the store I work at who DID make a career out of it... and while it's not the must fun work (how many people have fun jobs?), and not the most high-paying work, they must somehow get by, because they seem to be doing quite well for themselves. Not that I'm saying working at a grocery store your whole life is a promising career choice. I'm just saying... again... it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

 

Jobs don't seem to care much, but a career is indeed going to look at how you did in High School regardless of how bad you think the education system is.

 

You're right. Which is why those planning on college careers really do have to bite the bullet at school. Doesn't mean, though, that the educational value of schools shouldn't be increased.

 

Also, I am not familar to where you live but out here it is impossible for live on anywhere close to minimum wage.

 

Well of course it's impossible. But that's why there's pay raises, promotions, and other advancements. I know dudes at my store getting paid ten bucks an hour if not more. Just to stock shelves.

[Jae Onasi]

Perhaps the schools need to teach things that ACTUALLY might help you with a career, instead of just forcing you to do book reports on boring books that have no impact on society. That's called babysitting.

 

No, that's called 'teaching you how to write' and 'learning what good writing is'. Something that many of the current high school students and those coming out of high school for about the last 10 or 15 years have failed to grasp. The writing skills of many (note I did _not_ say _all_, and I would say most that are here do not fall into that category) teens is atrocious. With the internet exploding, writing skills are becoming even _more_ essential than even 10 years ago. It's also not necessarily about the subject, but also about learning _how to work_. Is your boss going to care whether you think some task is stupid or not? No, he's going to tell you to do it anyway, regardless of your feelings on the matter.

 

I certainly don't except to work at a grocery store my whole life,... Not that I'm saying working at a grocery store your whole life is a promising career choice. I'm just saying... again... it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

If that's what you want to be, that's fine. Just work on being the best at it and have pride in doing a good job.

 

Well of course it's impossible. But that's why there's pay raises, promotions, and other advancements. I know dudes at my store getting paid ten bucks an hour if not more. Just to stock shelves.

 

There's a point where you are going to max out your wages and be at a dead end in low-level jobs that anyone without a diploma can do. You're going to make far more in life if you get a college degree and to do that, you have to do well in high school.

[TK-8252]

No, that's called 'teaching you how to write' and 'learning what good writing is'. Something that many of the current high school students and those coming out of high school for about the last 10 or 15 years have failed to grasp. The writing skills of many (note I did _not_ say _all_, and I would say most that are here do not fall into that category) teens is atrocious. With the internet exploding, writing skills are becoming even _more_ essential than even 10 years ago. It's also not necessarily about the subject, but also about learning _how to work_. Is your boss going to care whether you think some task is stupid or not? No, he's going to tell you to do it anyway, regardless of your feelings on the matter.

 

I agree with you on the writing skills thing. I think though that a lot of teens basically CHOOSE to write incorrectly when they have the ability to write correctly. This is partly a problem with the attitudes of the teens, and partly the problem with the school for not correcting it. And the thing about if you think your task at work is stupid: you're paid to do it, so what's it matter if it's stupid or not? If it's really stupid, though, then maybe consider another job.

[Totenkopf]

And the thing about if you think your task at work is stupid: you're paid to do it, so what's it matter if it's stupid or not? If it's really stupid, though, then maybe consider another job.

 

Excellent observation, and I mean that seriously. I've seen the care some people get at nursing homes b/c the staff basically treats the patients as nothing more than a meal ticket. If you don't like the job, do everyone (yourself especially) a favor and get the hell outta dodge. Just remember, however, every job has its crappy side, no exceptions. Of the grocery stockers you know getting $10+/hr, how long did it take for them to get there? And where exactly in the country are they? $10/hr seems like a decent amount, till you factor in the location as NY, CT or AK (to name a few expensive states).

[True_Avery]

You are getting "paid" by going to school though. You go there to learn, you learn, and then if you graduate you get a diploma and have the opportunity to move onto a good college. Your payment is your bigger paycheck later in life instead of being stuck in dead-end jobs with not a lot of options for career. But, you are indeed right on a few fronts about the education system being about biting a bullet.

 

And call the system all you want. There are kids all around the world living in poverty that would be glad to take your place and learn a few things. Think an essay is a waste of time? Wait till you get to college. It may seem like a waste now, but in college that writing skill you practiced in High School suddenly helps out a lot. But, I do agree with everybody in the thread in saying improvements could be done but... not going to change anytime soon, so work with what you got. Thats what I did.

 

Life sucks in a lot of places, especially when you have to do something you hate. Biting the bullet and doing the work builds good discipline for jobs and careers, helping you on your way to promotions and all that good stuff. If you truly think you are learning nothing, then use the time to better yourself. Teach yourself some stuff online if you want. But since the system is not going to fix itself anytime soon then just try and work with what you are given and try to find something good you can get out of every crappy asignment. Sounds cheesy, but yeah.

 

My mom went back to college when I was half way through High School and it really came to her attention how truly bad the system was when she compared what I was doing to what she was doing. College drop-outs have been the highest in years, which does put a bad light on current schools for not properly preparing kids for College.

 

Just a few quick thoughts.

 

You're right. Which is why those planning on college careers really do have to bite the bullet at school. Doesn't mean, though, that the educational value of schools shouldn't be increased.

Agreed.

[GarfieldJL]

You are getting "paid" by going to school though. You go there to learn, you learn, and then if you graduate you get a diploma and have the opportunity to move onto a good college. Your payment is your bigger paycheck later in life instead of being stuck in dead-end jobs with not a lot of options for career. But, you are indeed right on a few fronts about the education system being about biting a bullet.

 

There are ways to teach without sitting someone at a desk all day doing worksheets. Seriously, my parents and the good teachers I did have kept me interested in learning. If I had just been stuck at a desk all day doing worksheets, or doing book reports on books I would have had absolutely no interest in learning whatsoever, I seriously wouldn't have seen the point because there wouldn't have been any practical point I would have seen. Laziness had nothing to do with the equation, frustration and everything being taught seeming to be pointless was the culprits. While you're in school to learn, that doesn't mean fun should be taken out of the equation. The fact is girls are better at coping with sitting at a desk all day than boys are. That has nothing to do with laziness, it has to do with how boys are hardwired.

 

 

And call the system all you want. There are kids all around the world living in poverty that would be glad to take your place and learn a few things. Think an essay is a waste of time? Wait till you get to college. It may seem like a waste now, but in college that writing skill you practiced in High School suddenly helps out a lot. But, I do agree with everybody in the thread in saying improvements could be done but... not going to change anytime soon, so work with what you got. Thats what I did.

 

While I agree a lot of kids in poor countries would be glad to take our places in school, the question is whether it is just about learning. Consider the fact that school lunches while many of us would consider to be garbage (and yes school meals compared to homecooking tends to be garbage), to many kids living in poverty in 3rd world countries it would be like a feast.

 

Also I'd have to partially disagree with you on essays in high school being useful in college. It really depends what major you're in and what courses you're taking. Writing an essay on War and Peace is not a valuable learning experience for writing scientific essays. The writing style is totally different, I honestly used more of the lab report styles from my science classes than I used learning in English class.

 

Life sucks in a lot of places, especially when you have to do something you hate. Biting the bullet and doing the work builds good discipline for jobs and careers, helping you on your way to promotions and all that good stuff. If you truly think you are learning nothing, then use the time to better yourself. Teach yourself some stuff online if you want. But since the system is not going to fix itself anytime soon then just try and work with what you are given and try to find something good you can get out of every crappy asignment. Sounds cheesy, but yeah.

 

I'm talking about more than a crappy assignment here and there, I'm talking about bad assignment on top of bad assignment where there doesn't seem to be any point for it whatsoever. You have to get kids interested in learning while they're young, because they generally haven't developed enough yet to think long-term. If you just keep giving them worksheets and have them sit at a desk all day, it discourages them and makes it so they are frustrated and feel it is a big waste of time. Girls develop fine motor skills before boys do, and when handwriting is now being taught boys generally are physically not ready. So you have a bunch boys whom are 5-6 years old, already starting to fall behind and fail constantly, do you know how frustrating that is for them?

 

Seriously, I've been in this situation in second grade, with a lousy teacher. She said I was a below average student, even insulted my intelligence, some of them said I could never make it to college. I was taken to an expert whom diagnosed my learning disabilities and the school was forced to provide accomidations for me. Guess what, I made it to college I was an engineering major for 3 years before I switched, after burning myself out, taking classes with absolutely no break in between. I'm now in Computer Graphics Tech, and doing well. Now you want to tell me that my problems, and problems that other boys have is due to laziness? Cause that's what it sounds like.

 

 

My mom went back to college when I was half way through High School and it really came to her attention how truly bad the system was when she compared what I was doing to what she was doing. College drop-outs have been the highest in years, which does put a bad light on current schools for not properly preparing kids for College.

 

My mom also graduated from college, and got a dual masters back when women were being discriminated against in college. That's how she knew the laws concerning people with disabilities and what my rights were. That's why she didn't let the school just throw me in special education.

 

To be honest, I found a lot of my high school classes to be ridiculously easy, I often did my school work in class while the teacher was lecturing cause I already knew it. I really feel that high school except for my teacher in physics my senior year, did little to prepare me for college.

[Simon92]

It's OK in the end, because sexist discrimination by Females to Males [and racial discrimination by Black people to white people] is officially called...get this...POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION! What could be more positive than discrimination?!?!

 

Also, if schools are there to educate why don't they bleeding well do that? I can't learn at school because the teachers are so awful and everyone misbehaves all the time. AND I go to a selective grammer school - Bournemouth School - often referred to as one of the best in the country! What is the world coming to? And going to a boys only school I personally don't see any sexism, due to the fact that a lot of teachers are females.

[mimartin]

So yes there is discrimination of boys in public schools, either deliberately or unintentionally.

 

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-04/2006-04-13-voa4.cfm?CFID=94597771&CFTOKEN=59868471

 

This is not just a public school problem according to the above article. It seems that private schools are having the exact same problem. So since GarfieldJL backed a little off his stance of saying that this was deliberate, I will also back off mine in light of further investigation.

 

I was one of these lazy boys from elementary though high school. I did as little as possible and sometimes less than that. I was diagnosed with a learning disability and they wanted to fill with me with their magic drugs. My mother tried, but she did not have the education to help me after the 8th grade. She yelled, she spanked and later my step father beat, but I was too hard headed to listen. I managed to barely graduate on time (I was a fixture in summer school). I attended college, but dropped out when I was told my grades from high school and my financial situation would never allow me to get admission into the University of Texas. Upon my father’s deathbed he made me promises to go back and get my degree. Four years later I graduate cum laude and then continued my education.

 

That is why I feel these boys are being lazy, because I was lazy and I used my disability as an excuse to justify my failures.

 

However after reading more on the internet I feel that the classes may need to cater more to males. I’m still not willing to go with gender separate schools, but some classrooms being gender specific may help. I also agree with the above article that more male teachers could help. Whatever both private and public schools do they must not revert back to the pre 1972 day of decimating against females. We owe it to both sexist to give them the opportunity for best education possible. It is up to the student to be willing to except it.