The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

[Nancy Allen``]

To want the human race dead, to want some virus that would kill off the human race, it's evil. There's a million better ways to describe it but I think that's an accurate description of them, it's evil.

[ET Warrior]

To want the human race dead, to want some virus that would kill off the human race, it's evil. There's a million better ways to describe it but I think that's an accurate description of them, it's evil.

While I don't agree with their aims, I hardly think you can call them evil. I read nothing on that site that promoted active thinning of the population, rather a passive approach to slowly phase out a species that is quite unconcerned with the effects it has on anything else.

 

In fact, they quite explicitly state on their site that they don't want some virus to wipe out humanity. They just want people to stop having babies, because our rate of growth is quite clearly unsustainable.

[Nancy Allen``]

They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.

[JediKnight707]

I read nothing on that site that promoted active thinning of the population, rather a passive approach to slowly phase out a species that is quite unconcerned with the effects it has on anything else.

 

Quite the contrary, we're essentially the species that is the most concerned with the effects we have on everything. This is simply because we are the smartest species. I doubt that a bird flies overhead, and thinks to itself "better not crap in that pool, because that'd p--- off that house owner."

 

In response to this website, I think that this is a stupid idea, simply because it will never work. Millions of people don't believe in birth control, and you'd have a really hard time getting them to change.

 

Do I think that the human race is overpopulated? No. More brains means more thinking. Thinking is always a good thing. Will we consume more resources? Yes, that's a given. But, you have to think that because we consume these resources, there's a better cause than to just stay alive. I'd like to believe that if the savior of the Earth (assuming one is needed) will consume all the resources they need.

[Allronix]

Full disclosure: I was on their mailing list a LONG time ago (as in, before I had my depression treated), because I really wanted to speak to people who had chosen NOT to have kids and better explain to my family why. The options for "childless by choice" (especially for unmarried women) were pretty sparse.

 

Frankly, I'm all for volunteering to have fewer kids. I'm definitely not for extinction, but I am for "zero is fine, one is enough, two is plenty." Again, it's part of believing the Earth's here for everyone to share, not just for human benefit. Frankly, Mother Nature DOES have a mean streak, and the more of the Earth we abuse, the nastier the fallout will be. I'd almost say it's in our own best interest to scale back our numbers and put more thought into why we want kids. It's become better in recent years, but there's still stigma attached to those who forgo children, and people who put a lot of effort into having kids and little thought as to why.

[John Galt]

I personally don't want children because I find them annoying. However, I'm all for letting other people procreate, hopefully within the confines of reason (never understood why anyone would want 23 kids-yes, I know some one from a family of 25).

[Web Rider]

I'm not wholly against children, but I'm certinaly no fan. I've seen the effects of having two sibling pets, and I assume the same principle works for children, so ideally, if I ever had a wife and had kids, I'd go for two. Which is zero population growth. However, I'm an only children, so I'm cool with one, but being an only child has it's downsides that I'm all too familiar with.

 

In any case, I think one of the best solutions to population growth is waiting longer to have children. Currently, many people are having kids every 20 years(not counting excessively large families), But it's: parent, turns 20ish, child, child turns 20ish, kids, kids turn 20ish, more kids, ect..., if everyone waited till 35, population growth would slow dramaticly simply because the ratio of death to birth would get closer. what is it, like, ever 50 seconds somebody dies, while ever 15 somebody is born?

[ET Warrior]

They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.

Q: Will new viruses, wars, famine, and toxic waste help the cause of human extinction?

 

No. Epidemics actually strengthen a species if enough of them are living to have an adequate survival rate. With over six billion of us, there is no virus that could get us all. A 99.99% die off would still leave 650,000 naturally-immune survivors to replicate, and in less than 50,000 years we could be right back where we are now. For any disease to simply hold the human population where it is, more than 200,000 of us would have to succumb to it each day. Suffering and death cannot help but hurt.

Seems to me that they obviously don't want a virus to wipe out humans.

 

Quite the contrary, we're essentially the species that is the most concerned with the effects we have on everything. This is simply because we are the smartest species. I doubt that a bird flies overhead, and thinks to itself "better not crap in that pool, because that'd p--- off that house owner."

And I also doubt that you will ever find a flock of birds strip mining a mountainside for ores to process into alloys, pumping copious amounts of toxic fumes into the air. While we are certainly natural creatures there is absolutely no denying that we have used our intelligence to separate ourselves from nature. While there are some who are genuinely concerned with our effects on nature, as a species we have shown very little regard for it.

[SilentScope001]

They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.

 

As that founder of the movement posted, it was indeed nothing more than an idle comment (calling for a virus that would render the human race infertile, NOT causing massive Black-Plague painful deaths), really meaning nothing.

[JediKnight707]

And I also doubt that you will ever find a flock of birds strip mining a mountainside for ores to process into alloys, pumping copious amounts of toxic fumes into the air. While we are certainly natural creatures there is absolutely no denying that we have used our intelligence to separate ourselves from nature. While there are some who are genuinely concerned with our effects on nature, as a species we have shown very little regard for it.

This taking, for the most part, was unintentional. I don't think that inventors in the Industrial Revolution wanted to harm our Earth. Yes, we have seperated ourselves from nature, for better or for worse. And that's the key. Is our serperation a good or a bad thing? Is taking something from Earth detrimental or is it good?

[Jae Onasi]

As that founder of the movement posted, it was indeed nothing more than an idle comment (calling for a virus that would render the human race infertile, NOT causing massive Black-Plague painful deaths), really meaning nothing.

 

When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.

[mimartin]

Seems to me that they obviously don't want a virus to wipe out humans.

 

I believe we are taking semantics here. They wouldn’t mind a virus that would render the population sterile, a virus that would slowly wipe out the human species. The end of humanity would be the same if it happened in three days or over one life time. So I really don’t see the difference. My question is couldn’t the same virus effect other mammals?

 

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement obviously is not going to work. It goes against our very nature. So once these “volunteers” realize this, will they resort to other measures? Will they actively seek out way to create a virus to meet their goals? After all they are already thinking about a virus even if it is just idle thoughts.

 

If vhemt is now and will remain strictly voluntary, then I do whole heartedly support them in their endeavor. The end of their family line will mean more resources and more room as my family line continues.

[SilentScope001]

When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.

 

These people do have a sense of humor though. Maybe it's not funny to those who don't exactly like the movement, but it's still there. Mostly preaching to the choir humor though.

 

mimartin: The reason they want the human race to be voluntarly extinct is that so it would be the ultimate showcasing of our intelligence of us as a species, especially in knowing our limits, our problems, and how we are willing to give up living in order to save something far greater. Sounds a bit romantic sentiment, and I do believe they want to keep it that way. I don't think they will want to engage in causing an involuntary exinction.

 

I'm also sure the volunteers realize the cause is a bit, well, hard, but prehaps they are aiming high to accomplish a more realistic goal. By drawing attention to extiniction, they also draw attention to population control and stopping reproduction. If they can accomplish that, by lowering the population down to the carrying capacity of the Earth, then I suppose that VHMENT would be happy as well. That goal however seems hard as well, because even in developed countries, one human does consume lots of resources, more resources than an equilvinat human in the third-world country...and in the end, the human race is the natural predetors of society. Unless a new predator comes in wanting to eat us, then it seems as though it will be impossible to truly curtail our growth as we'll keep growing and growing until, well, there may be no more plants or animals for us to eat...or resources to use. Of course, by then, we would be able to fly off...and repeat the same process?

 

The main question however remains: Is our growth a good thing or a bad thing? That can only be answered by personal opinon.

[mimartin]

showcasing of our intelligence of us as a species

 

Then that is the first flaw in their argument, depending on the human species to be intelligent means their cause is surely loss.

 

The main question however remains: Is our growth a good thing or a bad thing?

 

As I wrote earlier, I feel that overpopulation is indeed a bad thing. I’m all for voluntary population control just not to the point VHMENT is advocating. I’m all for protecting the environment and other species, but I believe this should be done for the future of the human race. I actually agree with these people that perhaps the human race is blight on this planet, but like “If a tree falls down in the woods does it make a noise?” Who cares if there is no one there to hear it, same goes if the planet is better off without us, if their no one there to appreciate it who cares?

[ET Warrior]

When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.

Same as when you are part of a group that believes everyone not in your group will burn in hellfire for eternity?

 

Kidding aside, why can't they have idle comments? Their life philosophy is such that everything they say must be taken completely serious?

 

Honestly, the word 'VOLUNTARY' is in the name of the movement. If we have to be so concerned with what they might eventually do about it then we should also start being genuinely concerned about those Christians wishing for the rapture.

[Achilles]

Honestly, the word 'VOLUNTARY' is in the name of the movement. If we have to be so concerned with what they might eventually do about it then we should also start being genuinely concerned about those Christians wishing for the rapture.

And there it is.

[mimartin]

If we have to be so concerned with what they might eventually do about it then we should also start being genuinely concerned about those Christians wishing for the rapture.

And there it is.

 

I don't get it? Are you both saying that we should not be concern over someone advocating the extinction of the human race and someone that already has the means defined hypothetically on their website. Yet you say we should be worried about some Christians that are wishing for the rapture to take place. Something that they have no means to control or instigate and something that neither of you believe in. Did I get this wrong?

[Achilles]

I can't speak for ET, but I'd say you got most of it.

 

The distinction is voluntary vs. involuntary. If some group thinks that we should voluntarily, on an individual basis, make the conscious decision not to reproduce, I say "great". If some group thinks that our involuntary destruction will be the single greatest thing ever, I think it's cause for concern.

 

Keep in mind that something like 44% of americans think that it's either definite or very likely that this thing will occur in the next 50 years. Then ask yourself how such people view global issues such as climate change, pollution, human trafficking, war, famine, etc, etc. Do you think they are giving these issues proper attention? Or do you think these people might have adopted the "all part of god's divine plan/jesus will be here soon to fix it all up" strategy? Considering their radical religious views in this area, how do you think that translates towards other religious topics such as their tolerance of atheists, homosexuals, unmarried couples, and so on?

 

I think it's pretty obvious which group I consider to be the real threat

 

PS: Whether or not I believe in the rapture is completely irrelevant. If someone was pointing a gun at your head because he believed voices had told him to kill you, does it matter much that you don't hear them also?

[Allronix]

And folks, you're getting so caught up in ONE LINE that you aren't seeing the rest. The whole motto is:

 

"May we live long and die out."

 

No one says anything about releasing a virus. No one says anything about making a virus. No one says a damn thing about forcing people not to reproduce. VOLUNTARY is the word here. We have more to fear from religious nuts and nuclear bombs than we ever will from these folks.

 

The idea of extinction is extreme, and even they'll acknowledge that it's a foregone conclusion. Still, the idea of being more mindful about our reproduction is not a bad thing.

[Achilles]

They seem to be pretty emphatic that the message should not be mis-interpretted as a mass-suicide. I think that message was lost somewhere in the first 10 posts.

[mimartin]

Keep in mind that something like 44% of americans think that it's either definite or very likely that this thing will occur in the next 50 years. Then ask yourself how such people view global issues such as climate change, pollution, human trafficking, war, famine, etc, etc. Do you think they are giving these issues proper attention? Or do you think these people might have adopted the "all part of god's divine plan/jesus will be here soon to fix it all up" strategy? Considering their radical religious views in this area, how do you think that translates towards other religious topics such as their tolerance of atheists, homosexuals, unmarried couples, and so on?

 

No, I think it pretty obvious I did not get what you were speaking to. If I did I would have kept my big mouth shut because I agree. I was actually thinking about Rapture and not how people might react if they thought it was about to happen. I know how I’d hope people would react in a matter the complete opposite of what you described, but that is not human nature. Good point and I stand corrected.

 

PS: Whether or not I believe in the rapture is completely irrelevant. If someone was pointing a gun at your head because he believed voices had told him to kill you, does it matter much that you don't hear them also?

 

Again I was thinking about Rapture itself and not the side effect of people believing they know the time it is going to happen. As a Christian I assure you I have no clue when it will happen and I’m also not wishing for it. I would not even be arrogant enough to speculate on the date and time of Rapture, as it is none of my business. I just could not see why it would worry you and ET, but I did not perceive the side effects of people thinking it was about to happen. As I wrote above again, I stand corrected.

 

Still, the idea of being more mindful about our reproduction is not a bad thing.

Agreed, it is a very good thing.

[Nancy Allen``]

The thing is these people are advocating killing off the human race. They said they want a virus that would effectively do so. If people attack theists because of things said in their religion then here we have a group pushing for something real, as opposed to something that may be fiction.

[Achilles]

The thing is these people are advocating killing off the human race.

They are not advocating this at all. They are advocating a voluntary suspension of reproduction.

 

By their own arguments, increasing the death rate would not achieve the desired goal, as new humans would be introduced via a steady birth rate.

 

They said they want a virus that would effectively do so.

I think it might be worth your time to go back and re-read their page. I think you might be confused, specifically on that point.

 

Here is the link for those that want read what the authors actually said about viral epidemics: http://www.vhemt.org/death.htm#mortality

 

If people attack theists because of things said in their religion then here we have a group pushing for something real, as opposed to something that may be fiction.

They are not advocating that anyone kill anyone else. In fact they specifically point out that killing people in immoral (unlike the bible and the quran).

 

The fact is that theists have killed for their religion, whereas I am not aware of any evidence that would lead me to suspect that any of this groups' members are guilty of murder (not that an individual action would mean anything anyways).

 

No, I think it pretty obvious I did not get what you were speaking to.

Fair enough. Since I incorrectly assumed (which I should not have done) that those points would have been self-evident, I apologize if opened a flood gate with my response.

 

I do you see your point though that atheist fear of theists might seem a little irrational until you put things into that context. Considering that it is likely that the aforementioned 44% make up a majority of the voting public in the US and that the US is the only superpower, I hope you can understand why some atheists are in crisis mode.

 

Thanks for reading.

[SilentScope001]

Egad! Let me explain! I'll grab the quote where he actually makes the Idle comment. It's really idle but interesting, nothing more! Sheesh.

 

From the Agreement section, a guy named Mike wrote (his words are in Red):

 

>Up to now, only my poor, beleaguered wife has listened to me fulminate against the human race and call for a new incurable plague rendering us all infertile (actually, I inflict the same rants on the family at holiday dinners -- cheers, everyone!).<

 

Yeah, I quit doing that when everyone began rolling their eyes and sighing loudly as if to say, "Here we go again." They stop listening after a while -- after a very short time, actually. Maybe half a sentence if it sounds like something they don't agree with. They begin looking for a trash can in their minds: "Let's see, is it the misanthrope trash? Maybe the baby-hater trash can. Yeah. Did anyone watch Seinfeld last night?"

 

I agree that the best thing that could happen to Earth would be for all Homo sapiens sperm to lose viability forever. Sure, sperm counts are down world wide, but that hasn't slowed our growth much if at all. I wouldn't credit it with the drop from 90+ million per year to the estimated 80 million present growth. People are saying the population explosion is over because of this little dip. As one population activist commented, just because the tidal wave is 80 feet high instead of 90 is not cause for celebration.

 

Unless some space alien joins forces with us, that global infertility dream is going to remain a dream. We have to take other steps. I've chosen awareness. I like to believe I've prevented a few humans from being conceived -- gives me a warm feeling.

[Nancy Allen``]

They said they want a virus that would wipe out the human race. They can't unsay it.

 

Atheists have also killed because religion is something they cannot understand or tolerate.