Who would win this battle? Revan or Darth Sidious(Emperor Palpatine)?

[Arcesious]

Jeez.... did anyone forget i said Palpatine had a Kiaburr Crystal dramtically enhancing his powers? Nowe here was the source that prove she had a kaiburr crystal.... man.... if only i could just find it... It would prove that Palpy boy was actually an average low-level sith lord without the boost he had fromt hat crystal.

[Miltiades]

Palpatine didn't use that Kaiburr crystal, but was used by Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader and Lumiya, according to Wookieepedia.

[Arcesious]

Okay. that clears some things up for me. including that i only heardof palpatines kaiburr crystal through a comic book- which i guess with the new canon system isn't canon.

[Miltiades]

Comics are canon... although, sometimes it can contradict with other sources (as seen between the Jedi vs. Sith comics and Darth Bane: Path of Destruction). But I'd like to know which comic you read that in. Maybe it was an Infinities comic, which is not canon...

[Arcesious]

It was a random comic i think i saw on wikipedia. I don't rember what it was called- only that some empire ship went down a black hole and the emporer got some kairburr crystals from some planet or whatever.

[JediMasterJambi]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Alright buddy. Now I respect you and your opinion on this matter, but take a step back and look for a second here.

 

You also forgot Mace both has the benefit of Shatterpoint and Vaapad, a specifically deadly form to anyonw who uses the dark side.

THAT'S great. And your point is what exactly? I never said Mace wasn't strong. Just that Revan is stronger.

That's really a total raping of logic.

 

So, to you, Dark Empire = Revenge of the Sith?

 

And maybe AOTC Anakin = ROTS Anakin?

 

Or maybe Darth Revan = KOTOR Revan?

No, infact, to me Dark Empire is completley invalid.

 

Because DE specifically contradicts the prophecy of Anakin destroying the Sith, not inclusive of Dark Jedi, Sidious was indeed the last Dark Lord of the Sith and he was defeated in ROTJ, meaning the prophecy had been fulfilled.

 

However DE contradicts this entirely, by bringing back Sidious it specifically means that the Prophecy was wrong and Anakin did not and will not destroy the Sith. Which contradicts Georges MOVIES and thus contradicts G-Canon.

 

Mace beat ROTS Palpatine. NOT DE Palpatine.

It doesn't matter does it bud? Your DE Palpatine doesn't out-canon the movies. I doubt he's even C-Canon considering his existence CONTRADICTS THE MOVIES. DE holds no bearing here. So stop bringing it up.

 

PT Jedi > KOTOR Jedi according to Lucas.

You said this in your post twice already. You have nothing. I said this before, and i'll say it again. YOU CAN'T USE G-CANON UNLESS YOU PROVIDE PROOF THAT IT IS G-CANON! Lmfao.

My quote is NOT ONLY G-Canon, but its ALSO from the MOVIE COMENTARY explained by George Lucas HIMSELF. So get over it guy. Palpatine isn't the best. Stop being a freaking flipping Palpatine fanboy.

Here is what you basically just did.

"Proof, facts, quotes, canon." -JediMasterJambi

"No." -Nikkolas

You told me I was wrong, despite that I gave valid quotes, canon, facts, and proof to back my facts up. And you did this without giving valid facts, proof, or canon of your own relating to this discussion.

You didn't make my quote invalid. You gave no valid counter-arguments to ANY of my 3 points concerning ancient Jedi. Infact, the only thing in your entire reply I considered was this...

Tell that to Dooku, declared one of the strongest Jedi in history.

And yet you still didn't provide a quote or even a link.

 

I've already proved that Mace beat Palpatine. And i've already given proof as to why Ancient Sith and Jedi are stronger than the Movie Jedi and Sith. Nothing in your reply has disproved me. DE is a contradiction. So don't bother giving me that crap again.

 

Show me your proof, or disprove mine. Then I will attempt a rebuttal, until then...

 

 

Mod note: Edited offensive tone. See mod note above. Please cool down a bit. ~M

[Alexander the Great]

Wikipedia can't really be trusted on these things, just so you know. Anyone can edit it, so a quarter of it is fanon.

 

Actually, to be honest, a lot of things in SW contradict other sources. Sort of ruins the whole debating thing. Again, we have no solid proof of Revan's power. Sidious, we know that he was able to match Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live. He was also able to incinerate entire starship fleets with the will of the Force, as well as kill three Jedi masters while fighting four in under fifteen seconds.

 

Revan was able to defeat Darth Malak, a Sith Lord of average power (as did Obi-Wan as a padawan). Give me a couple more impressive feats of Revan and I may concede.

[Nikkolas]

Prime of the Jedi

 

http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html

 

Also, Jenobi, if you had read a comic, you'd KNOW that Kreia is WRONG about her quote. The Ancient Sith always used Sith Swords, not lightsabers. So they could not make KOTOR II Jedi look like children in LIGHTSABER combat.

 

And Lucas himself read and liked Dark Empire.

And it's also canon Vaapad is the deadliest lightsaber form ever created.

 

You can't reply or debate. YOu just say lol. It's very sad.

[Alexander the Great]

Prime of the Jedi

 

http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html

 

Also, Jenobi, if you had read a comic, you'd KNOW that Kreia is WRONG about her quote. The Ancient Sith NEVER used SITH SWORDS, not lightsabers. So they could not make KOTOR II Jedi look like children in LIGHTSABER combat.

 

And Lucas himself read and liked Dark Empire. So...pleae be quiet.

And it's also canon Vaapad is the deadliest lightsaber form ever created.

 

You can't reply or debate. YOu just say lol. It's very sad.

 

[

 

I'm assuming you mean they "always" use Sith swords.

[urluckyday]

Sidious, plain and simple.

[stoffe]

Mod note:

There are still emotions running a bit too high in this thread. I believe there was a nudge earlier in this thread not to post in an inflamatory manner or insult others because they don't share your opinion. This still applies, if you are unable to post without a sharp, belittling tone then refrain from posting until you can do so.

 

I am trying to be civil about this, but I will not repeat it again. Anyone continuing to ignore this and posting in an offensive manner in this thread will henceforth be given warning infractions.

[JediMasterJambi]

Wikipedia can't really be trusted on these things, just so you know. Anyone can edit it, so a quarter of it is fanon.

 

Actually, to be honest, a lot of things in SW contradict other sources. Sort of ruins the whole debating thing. Again, we have no solid proof of Revan's power. Sidious, we know that he was able to match Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live. He was also able to incinerate entire starship fleets with the will of the Force, as well as kill three Jedi masters while fighting four in under fifteen seconds.

 

Revan was able to defeat Darth Malak, a Sith Lord of average power (as did Obi-Wan as a padawan). Give me a couple more impressive feats of Revan and I may concede.

 

I'm saying that due to the fact that Revan is 4000 years older than Palpatine, hes more powerful. That he lived in an age where Force Userers were merley more powerful, and more attuned to the force becasue they had to rely and improve upon it more. That in that age Lightsaber technuiqes were more emphasized, and thus much more improved upon when compared to those of the movie era. I'm saying that in the 1000 years of peace the Jedi Order experienced, they were weakened, and lost much of their ability as fighters when compared. I'm saying that the KOTOR era was strife with war, (Against thousands of enemies ON PAR with Jedi, 1 vs 1, like Dark Jedi, Mandalorians, Sith, Trentek, etc.) the Jedi of that era were all around MORE POWERFUL IN COMBAT when compared to the Movie era Jedi because of those enemies.

 

Prime of the Jedi

 

http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html

Ahah. So thats your source?

When Lucas says "Prime of The Jedi." This would mean "Prime of Peace, and Prosparity." Not "Prime of Combat."

A common misconception I supose.

Also, Jenobi, if you had read a comic, you'd know that Kreia is wrong about her quote. The Ancient Sith NEVER used SITH SWORDS, not lightsabers. So they could not make KOTOR II Jedi look like children in LIGHTSABER combat.

Comics aren't above games in Canon.

"The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon."

And Lucas himself read and liked Dark Empire.

And it's also canon Vaapad is the deadliest lightsaber form ever created.

Now here is wht I need your source on. Give me a link to where you read these 2 "facts." Or stop saying them, because they aren't true.

 

 

Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I just write one post up? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M

[Nancy Allen``]

We see Mace Windu beat Sidious, so however powerful he might be he's not good enough to beat a Jedi Master. So how was he able to fend off Yoda? Remember all the way back to the first film when Obi Wan acted as though he was gravely wounded when Aldaraan was destroyed. I would put it that Yoda was the same, rightfully so. What happened would be enough to greatly affect a non force sensitive. So what about Revan? He was able to learn Force Storm, and he was able to have legions of followers join him willingly, as opposed to having to resort to clones and the like. Finally, he was a great military tactician, Revan would not make the mistakes Sidious made (overconfidence, turning people against him, ect).

[tulakhordpwns]

Wikipedia can't really be trusted on these things, just so you know. Anyone can edit it, so a quarter of it is fanon.

 

Actually, to be honest, a lot of things in SW contradict other sources. Sort of ruins the whole debating thing. Again, we have no solid proof of Revan's power. Sidious, we know that he was able to match Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live. He was also able to incinerate entire starship fleets with the will of the Force, as well as kill three Jedi masters while fighting four in under fifteen seconds.

 

Revan was able to defeat Darth Malak, a Sith Lord of average power (as did Obi-Wan as a padawan). Give me a couple more impressive feats of Revan and I may concede.

exactly

Revan has done nothing to prove he can beat Palpatine

Sidious wins

[JediMasterJambi]

We see Mace Windu beat Sidious, so however powerful he might be he's not good enough to beat a Jedi Master. So how was he able to fend off Yoda?

I actually touched on that in my 2nd post in this thread with 3 points I consider rather good.

[Jae Onasi]

Comics aren't above games in Canon.

"The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon."

 

Uh, you do know that was a joke post, don't you?

[Alexander the Great]

Alrighty Gray baby ^.^ Listen up.

I'm saying that due to the fact that Revan is 4000 years older than Palpatine, hes more powerful. That he lived in an age where Force Userers were merley more powerful, and more attuned to the force becasue they had to rely and improve upon it more. That in that age Lightsaber technuiqes were more emphasized, and thus much more improved upon when compared to those of the movie era. I'm saying that in the 1000 years of peace the Jedi Order experienced, they were weakened, and lost much of their ability as fighters when compared. I'm saying that the KOTOR era was strife with war, (Against thousands of enemies ON PAR with Jedi, 1 vs 1, like Dark Jedi, Mandalorians, Sith, Trentek, etc.) the Jedi of that era were all around MORE POWERFUL IN COMBAT when compared to the Movie era Jedi because of those enemies.

 

Alright, you're right in the sense that many of the powerful Jedi lived in the ancient era. However, that doesn't mean that powerful Jedi were exclusively ancient. Luke, Yoda, Anakin, Mace, Obi-Wan (sort of), Mara, Kyp, and some others. Similarly, ancient had Vodo, Nomi, Odan-Urr, Ulic, Exar, and some others. There were an equal amount, and you can't really say that just because someone lived in an era they were a god of the Force. Cay Qel-Droma wasn't exactly a prodigy, was he? And Revan was in another era (I think, I'm not sure).

 

We see Mace Windu beat Sidious, so however powerful he might be he's not good enough to beat a Jedi Master.

 

Err... Like I said, I'm pretty sure I saw him WTFowning three of them in about a quarter of a minute.

 

So what about Revan? He was able to learn Force Storm

 

Sidious was able to learn Force storm, both the wormhole version AND the giant lightning bolts of death version.

 

he was able to have legions of followers join him willingly, as opposed to having to resort to clones and the like. Finally, he was a great military tactician, Revan would not make the mistakes Sidious made (overconfidence, turning people against him, ect).

 

That matters in this fight, why? This is apparently a regular one-on-one fight, and Sidious was able to keep the galaxy in tact for quite a while after the Empire was established anyway. The rebellion was only a nuisance until the OT movies, so it was pretty stable for about twenty years. Of course, none of this matters for reasons above.

[JediMasterJambi]

Uh, you do know that was a joke post, don't you?

I thought the winky at the start would of indicated. ^.^ I put an LOL after it...or atleast I thought I did. Guess not though.

[Nancy Allen``]

The thing is no one knew he was a Sith, you see this sort of thing happen all the time. A cop goes to bring someone in, they seem cool before they grab their gun. Same thing.

 

Also take into account age, not just age but Yoda nearly frying him. Or just how proficient Sidious might have been with firearms. We know Jedi\Sith are not invincible to them, AFAIK Revan was trained up as a commando before rejoining the Jedi.

[Nikkolas]

I'm saying that due to the fact that Revan is 4000 years older than Palpatine, hes more powerful.

 

That's not factual.

 

Mandalore lived in the same age.

 

He isn't stronger than Palpatine.

 

Ahah. So thats your source?

Allow me to help you out here man. When Lucas says "Prime of The Jedi." This would mean "Prime of Peace, and Prosparity." Not "Prime of Combat."

A common misconception I supose.

 

I'm sure it is.

 

Except...you are inserting your own baseless opinion to what Lucas said.

 

So I don't care.

 

That he lived in an age where Force Userers were merley more powerful, and more attuned to the force becasue they had to rely and improve upon it more

 

And Palpatine lived in a time where Jedi were inventing the strongest form of lightsaber combat. When his apprentices could bring enemies to their knees with a finger.

 

That in that age Lightsaber technuiqes were more emphasized, and thus much more improved upon when compared to those of the movie era.

 

Dooku was the best Makashi, lightsaber-to-lightsaber, Master in history.

 

Windu invented a new lightsaber form that emphasized on lightsaber combat with Dark Side users.

 

I'm saying that in the 1000 years of peace the Jedi Order experienced, they were weakened, and lost much of their ability as fighters when compared.

 

Tell that to Yoda who can deflect Force lightning with his bare hands or completely neutralize it.

 

Tell me a KOTOR Jedi doing this canonically?

 

Try to aviod the double and triple negatives please dude? Its hard to understand you. Comics aren't above games in Canon.

"The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon."

 

Like I said, comics specifically show and state the Ancient Sith did not use lightsabers.

 

Whoever wrote that line for Kreia didn't know what they were talking about.

[Alexander the Great]

The thing is no one knew he was a Sith, you see this sort of thing happen all the time. A cop goes to bring someone in, they seem cool before they grab their gun. Same thing.

 

Also take into account age, not just age but Yoda nearly frying him. Or just how proficient Sidious might have been with firearms. We know Jedi\Sith are not invincible to them, AFAIK Revan was trained up as a commando before rejoining the Jedi.

 

No offense, but what does any of that have to do with this? I'm going to reply to it anyway.

 

It doesn't matter that no one knew he was a Sith. He was the Emperor and managed to rule over everything calmly for twenty years.

 

Sidious would at least have the skill to be able to deflect a few blaster bolts coming from one person. The reason the Jedi got massacred in the purge was because...

 

1. They had several Clones on them at once. It's hard to deflect blaster bolts coming from 10+ guns unless you're a Soresu master, some of which also died.

2. The Clones attacked unexpectedly. The Jedi either didn't have a chance to notice they were getting shot at (like Aayla Secura) or were disoriented and confused as to why they were being shot at by their own men.

 

If it's one person firing at him, it would be ineffective. All Sidious has to do is *deflect, deflect, Force pull* and blasters are out of the question.

[Miltiades]

Revan was able to defeat Darth Malak, a Sith Lord of average power (as did Obi-Wan as a padawan). Give me a couple more impressive feats of Revan and I may concede.

 

And who says Malak just had average power? He was the Dark Lord after all, who could only be bested by Revan himself.

 

And Palpatine lived in a time where Jedi were inventing the strongest form of lightsaber combat. When his apprentices could bring enemies to their knees with a finger.

 

Only a few Jedi mastered the Vaapad technique. I don't think it's fair to say that Palpatine and his apprentice bested Jedi who had the powerful Vaapad technique.

 

Dooku was the best Makashi, lightsaber-to-lightsaber, Master in history.

 

He also was one of the only Makashi users in history. Anyway, although it may be called the lightsaber-to-lightsaber style, it doesn't mean that one who's skilled in this style of combat, automatically wins a lightsaber-to-lightsaber fight with someone who knows nothing or very little about that style. Anakin showed that, as he defeated Dooku with the Djem So style.

 

Also, Jenobi, if you had read a comic, you'd KNOW that Kreia is WRONG about her quote. The Ancient Sith always used Sith Swords, not lightsabers. So they could not make KOTOR II Jedi look like children in LIGHTSABER combat.

 

Well, yes, the Ancient Sith preferred the Sith sword above the lightsaber, but not all of them. Like Kreia stated, Tulak Hord used a lightsaber, and was very skilled in fighting with one. Tulak Hord makes no appearances in any comic or novel, so the fact that he used a lightsaber may very well be valid. Other Sith, like Naga Sadow or Ludo Kressh used Sith swords either because of tradition, or because of the visceral feeling of sword cutting through flesh (quoting Wookieepedia).

[Nancy Allen``]

Actually it does matter that no one knew he was a Sith, as the Jedi would have gone in unprepared. Yoda on the other hand went in, smashed his guards against the wall and challenged him. Had they known Sidious would have been owned.

[JediMasterJambi]

Alright, you're right in the sense that many of the powerful Jedi lived in the ancient era. However, that doesn't mean that powerful Jedi were exclusively ancient. Luke, Yoda, Anakin, Mace, Obi-Wan (sort of), Mara, Kyp, and some others. Similarly, ancient had Vodo, Nomi, Odan-Urr, Ulic, Exar, and some others. There were an equal amount, and you can't really say that just because someone lived in an era they were a god of the Force. Cay Qel-Droma wasn't exactly a prodigy, was he? And Revan was in another era (I think, I'm not sure).

 

I have to disagree with "There were an equal amount." Espically considering there were multiple Jedi Enclaves around the KOTOR era, even despite there having been a Jedi Civil War, and a Mandalorian War before KOTOR began.

 

Now...Consider the following.

The Jedi of The Movie Era DIED OUT. All of them. The Order was lost. And their numbers dwindeled to the point where there wasn't even 10 of them left!

Thus, this would mean that was THE FALL OF THE JEDI. That was their LOW POINT in history.

The reason for this is blatant.

1,000 years of peace.

 

Now, let me ask you somthing.

Could your Dad beat a Caveman in a fist fight? No. Because due to his eviorment, the Caveman was natuarlly gifted with physical strength.

Could a Spartan beat a Marine in a fist fight? Hell yes he could.

Get my point here?

The Anicent Jedi KNEW what COMBAT was. They experienced it CONSTANTLY against enemies ON PAR with themselves. As time progessed, manny killed eachother, and fewer remained. Anicent skills were lost, combat skills dulled, attunement to the force was less neccesary.

You MUST beable to understand that, as it happens in our world today.

 

That's not factual.

 

Mandalore lived in the same age.

 

He isn't stronger than Palpatine.

Your logic is flawed. Mandalore isn't even a Force-user.

 

Except...you are inserting your own baseless opinion to what Lucas said.

 

So I don't care.

O please. I used my common sense and common knowledge of that era. Your just twisting the word to benefit your argument. Everyone knows that it was the era of Peace for the Jedi.

And Palpatine lived in a time where Jedi were inventing the strongest form of lightsaber combat. When his apprentices could bring enemies to their knees with a finger.

1 Word. Juyo.

The ANCIENT INCOMPLETLE TECHNIQUE WHICH VAAPAD IS BASED UPON.

There. Your Vaapad stands for nothing now.

Dooku was the best Makashi, lightsaber-to-lightsaber, Master in history.

Enough. I have proved you wrong at every turn you make.

I have proof. Canon proof which IS EXCEPTED. You don't.

Hes not the best. Get over it.

 

 

Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M

[Nikkolas]

O please. I used my common sense and common knowledge of that era. Your just twisting the word to benefit your argument. Everyone knows that it was the era of Peace for the Jedi.

 

Why are you so arrogant to assume everyone agrees with you?

 

1 Word. Juyo.

The ANCIENT INCOMPLETLE TECHNIQUE WHICH VAAPAD IS BASED UPON.

There. Your Vaapad stands for nothing now.

 

Not really.

 

Vaapad, deadliest lightsaber form ever according to Shatterpoint.

 

I have proof. Canon proof which IS EXCEPTED. You don't

 

I'm not the one TWISTING the words of George Lucas with my opinion.

 

You've proven nothing whatsoever.

 

Yep. Palpatine is the strongest Sith ever according to several sources.

 

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

 

So...

 

Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M