Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The Jedi Exile would own them all, make Sidious choke on his own lightsaber before turning her attention to her former master. Kreia said she was the most powerful of them all, even Revan. If it's good enough for a Sith to say that then it's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDoe 2.0 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I wonder if Kreia was telling the truth when she said that the exile was the greatest SHE HAD ever trained, remember she said that Revan was trained by others as well, so he may be more powerful than the Exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 "Conflicting canon When two canon sources conflict, one must consider the two sources and compare their origin. The films and the word of George Lucas are final. They are incontrovertable. When comparing different versions of the films, the most recent are considered the highest canon, and their edits considered Lucas's original intent and final vision. Production notes are considered to be part of the films. Content published on Starwars.com, including the Databank and blogs by Leland Chee or other VIPs, brings any information to a near-film status of acceptability. Expanded Universe information and characters not included in the films, including reference books. This also includes the stories presented in games, but not the actual on-screen gameplay or stats. In some cases, a source may be contradicted into complete non-canon. In others, only part will be contradicted by a higher source, while the rest remains canon. As long as a piece of information comes from a canon source and is not contradicted by a higher source, it is accepted as canon. For example, an EU novel may introduced a starship, but not detail its weaponry. Later, a WOTC RPG supplement may provide game statistics for the starship previously introduced, including its weaponry. So long as the weaponry detailed in the WOTC source are not contradicted by an existing source, they are considered canon. You must be vigilant, however, as Star Wars authors are prone to reintroducing obscure references from the EU, and the WOTC statistics may eventually be overridden. " http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy Because DE specifically contradicts the prophecy of Anakin destroying the Sith, not inclusive of Dark Jedi, Sidious was indeed the last Dark Lord of the Sith and he was defeated in ROTJ(The Movie), meaning the prophecy had been fulfilled. However DE CONTRADICTS this entirely, by bringing back Sidious it specifically means that the Prophecy was wrong and Anakin did not and will not destroy the Sith. Which contradicts Georges MOVIES and thus contradicts G-Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkolas Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As I said, Lucas himself read Dark Empire and it's still fully in-continuity. If we go by your crappy logic, Exar Kun's spirit and Jedi Academy Trilogy don't exist. Ragnos' spirit doesn't exist in the JA video game. The ENTIRE series of Legacy of the Force, still ongoing, also is not allowed to exist. Yet LFL permits all of it to be canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As I said, Lucas himself read Dark Empire and it's still fully in-continuity. If we go by your logic, Exar Kun's spirit and Jedi Academy Trilogy don't exist. Ragnos' spirit doesn't exist in the JA video game. The ENTIRE series of Legacy of the Force, still ongoing, also is not allowed to exist. Yet LFL permits all of it to be canon. Your Canon contradicts my Canon IN THIS DEBATE. My Canon takes priority over your Canon in this debate. LFL or not. G-Canon overides the comic. My point stands valid. Yours has been disproven. And its not just my logic. Its all of Wookieepedia. You just won't except the fact that I can use G-Canon to discredit Dark Empire. Because without Dark Empire, Palpatine is nothing special. These rules are made for debates like this one though, and I CAN apply them here. Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the Great Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You know, neither side can truly be trusted. SW canon is constantly changing and is skewered. Lucas has contradicted himself on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkolas Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Your Canon contradicts my Canon IN THIS DEBATE. My Canon takes priority over your Canon in this debate. LFL or not. My canon of Lucas saying the PT was the Prime of the Jedi wins over your canon which is nothing. My point stands valid. Yours has been disproven. And its not just my logic. Its all of Wookieepedia. Good for Wookie. The most famous comic book seire sin the EU, one of the most famous trilogies in the EU and the effin' CURRENT MAIN NOVEL SERIES all don't exist according to you and Wookie. You just won't except the fact that I can use G-Canon to discredit Dark Empire. Because without Dark Empire, Palpatine is nothing special. These rules are made for debates like this one though, and I CAN apply them here Palpatine has plenty of feats over Revan outside of Dark Empire. it's not really hard. Revan hardly has any concrete displays of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You know, neither side can truly be trusted. SW canon is constantly changing and is skewered. Lucas has contradicted himself on a regular basis. Well this is my most up-to-date contradiction of Lucas. And it allows me to discredit DE during this debate. I'm not here to disagree with "How trusted Lucas and his SW Canon is." Truth be told, I just plain don't trust Lucas to do anything right since TSL. I'm here to disagree with "Palpatine can beat Revan." And if the most current SW Canon rules help me in my debate, I'm definatley going to use them. My canon of Lucas saying the PT was the Prime of the Jedi wins over your canon which is nothing. I used G-Canon to discredit Dark Empire because the COMIC contradicts the MOVIE. Whether your misconception of the PT is true OR not. It doesn't stop me from saying Dark Empire contradicts the movie. The most famous comic book seire sin the EU, one of the most famous trilogies in the EU and the effin' CURRENT MAIN NOVEL SERIES all don't exist according to you and Wookie. I used the rules laid down by LUCAS (He knows more about starwars then you do, and I do.) to discredit your source FOR THIS DEBATE. This dosn't mean that they don't exist, just that you CAN'T use them to prove your point, or to disprove mine. Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Why can't we just move on here...? How about i invent some bizzarre form for Revan to amke him unstoppable, and then the discussion ends with Revan being stronger than sidious, and sidious who again i will say, was a fool. So revan knows Form XI (form 11 if some of you don't know roman numerals) From XI is th eunknown, secret form the Tulak Hord used, the ancient form known as gezuntiett (sp?). This ancient form used all powerful sneezes of snotty forcepower, and i must say- Revan had a very bad cold... This form that Revan Ddscovered allowed him to infuse snot into his lightsaber, and kill his enemies with the almighty power of the snotside! There, i hope we're all happy now. Just don't get any colds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the Great Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Alright, but we can't assume Revan was a god just because he was apart of that era. He gained most of his prestige from his tactics and charisma. That's why I dislike Revan versus threads; his precise amount of power can't be found, only a very rough idea. If you don't know exactly how good a character is, there's no point in debating whether he or she is better than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Administrator-canon trumps all. Jambi and Nikkolas, cool your jets, the both of you. If you cannot debate levels of canon without sounding like two school children going "Nuh-uh!" and "Yah-huh!", I'm going to have to shut this thread down. Play nice or don't play at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (Revan still was the awesomest) Edit: jk. i just had to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Administrator-canon trumps all. Jambi and Nikkolas, cool your jets, the both of you. If you cannot debate levels of canon without sounding like two school children going "Nuh-uh!" and "Yah-huh!", I'm going to have to shut this thread down. Play nice or don't play at all. Fair warning. I think I've said all I can about Canon anyway. I aint changing his mind. Alright, but we can't assume Revan was a god just because he was apart of that era. He gained most of his prestige from his tactics and charisma. That's why I dislike Revan versus threads; his precise amount of power can't be found, only a very rough idea. If you don't know exactly how good a character is, there's no point in debating whether he or she is better than another. Alright, accepted. I can't say Revan was a god, and I won't say it. But we can try to figure out (Like you said.) where is power is roughly base. Now are the following statments agreeable? Revan was one of the most promising students of the Jedi order during that age. Jedi of that age were fresh with combat experience due to the War with Exar-kun. Revan fought in the Mandalorian wars aswell. And is considered the main reason to why the republich won that war. The Jedi of the KOTOR age would have better experience in lightsaber against lightsaber combat. The Jedi of the KOTOR age would have better experience with using the force as a weapon. Raven was the Lord of the Sith until he was ambushed by the jedi, and betrayed by his apprentice. Revan was one of the most powerful people in an era that had powerful Force-combatants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 And it appears that Revan wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Well this is my most up-to-date contradiction of Lucas. And it allows me to discredit DE during this debate. Discrediting DE doesnt remove or renounce its canon status. Besides you arent a lucas arts employee to dispute whats fact and whats not. Besides im still wondering HOW are you going to prove revan > sidious. Right you have yet to do any of those. I had a very very long arguement and essay which a moderator removed and the contents in that arguement are more than enough to overwhelm your claims Besides a dark jedi isnt a sith lord. The prophecy states that anakin will destroy the sith and thats what he did. Palpatine in DE is a mere dark jedi if not a p-r-e-t-e-n-d-e-r to the sith legacy as is lumiya and krayt. So no, It DOES not and WILL NOT contradict the movies and even if it did. The canon status shall not be renounced. Face it, sidious > revan Btw did you realise sidious was powerful enough to drain the entire planet of byss with the same technique nihilus used on katarr? Did you realise sidious was powerful enough to lift a SSD which is 19km with telekenesis and bury it into the heart of coruscant? Or the fact that he annihilated an army of storm troopers who turned on him with one blast of lightning. Or the fact that the ancient sith spirits saluted and bowed before him and vader stating that palpatine is the greatest and strongest sith who ever lived. Did you realise that palpatine used a force technique that annihilated an entire rebel fleet destroying thousands of people and destroying thousands of war ships at the same time. That technique was also capable of ravaging the entire surface of a planet as well as teleporting luke across the galaxy. Now tell me. what has the ancient sith done which puts them above the PT jedi or sidious? Last i recall is that the ancient sith ludo kressh couldnt block a mere brick naga sadow hurled at him. Also note that most of the "force feats" the ancient sith did were actually done by sith instruments and technology which sidious and luke replicated without the use of them. Powerful eh? I'm not here to disagree with "How trusted Lucas and his SW Canon is." Truth be told, I just plain don't trust Lucas to do anything right since TSL. I'm here to disagree with "Palpatine can beat Revan." And if the most current SW Canon rules help me in my debate, I'm definatley going to use them. Right and just where is your "canon rule" source? You have yet to even state anything of how revan is going to beat him Lol. How old are you? I used G-Canon to discredit Dark Empire because the COMIC contradicts the MOVIE. See the above Whether your misconception of the PT is true OR not. It doesn't stop me from saying Dark Empire contradicts the movie. Uh it doesnt, Theres a distinct difference between a dark jedi, a sith lord and a pretender and seeing that the real sith died out during ROTJ, palpatine returned as a pretender to the sith legacy I used the rules laid down by LUCAS (He knows more about starwars then you do, and I do.) And lucas states that sidious is more powerful than just about every other sith lord. Ever read star wars insider? He was asked "why vader and sidious are so popular in the star wars UNIVERSE, His reply? Because they(vader and palpatine) are the most powerful How bout the fact that in order to defeat sidious you have to be mace or yoda? Those are statements he made in an interview to discredit your source FOR THIS DEBATE. This dosn't mean that they don't exist, just that you CAN'T use them to prove your point, or to disprove mine. They disprove yours completely. You have even yet to prove anything and you are resorting to attempt to discredit several sources which state palpatine triumphs over revan. I dont even recall how you claimed revan beat sidious. all you are doing is trying to discredit nikkolas Fair warning. I think I've said all I can about Canon anyway. I aint changing his mind. Revan was one of the most promising students of the Jedi order during that age. Big deal, Ancient sith states palpatine was the strongest sith lord ever Jedi of that age were fresh with combat experience due to the War with Exar-kun.. Only the council members which were lol easily killed by mere sith assassins Revan fought in the Mandalorian wars aswell. And is considered the main reason to why the republich won that war. Uh due to his military tactics and technology The Jedi of the KOTOR age would have better experience in lightsaber against lightsaber combat. Uh proof? They got easily slaughtered by mere mandalorian soldiers The Jedi of the KOTOR age would have better experience with using the force as a weapon. Wrong, We have seen the NJO jedi and PT jedi doing greater feats with the force, Cloaking a planet, Killing an army with one swipe of the hand using the force, Pulling down star destroyers, Walking on lava. Etc Revan was one of the most powerful people in an era that had powerful Force-combatants. Force-combatants who got easily slaughtered by mere soldiers We see Mace Windu beat Sidious, Uh sidious has not fought for 13 years thus his lightsaber skills had become rusty, The fact that he was able to kill 3 of the orders greatest swordsman is remarkable despite not fighting for 13 years since he became chancellor. . So what about Revan? He was able to learn Force Storm, Where is the evidence to back up this claim? Palpatines force storm is ripping a black hole or a wormhole in space which is the most destructive force in the universe. The other variant is ordinary lightning which sidious has also surpassed revan. and he was able to have legions of followers join him willingly, as opposed to having to resort to clones and the like. Right, that is irrelevant to combat prowess Finally, he was a great military tactician, Revan would not make the mistakes Sidious made (overconfidence, turning people against him, ect).see the above I'm saying that due to the fact that Revan is 4000 years older than Palpatine, hes more powerful. Not very good analogy. Your just speculating which is non canon That he lived in an age where Force Userers were merley more powerful, More speculation. Where does it state that the jedi of that era are more powerful than that of the PT? and more attuned to the force becasue they had to rely and improve upon it more. Err wrong. Even during the 1000 year peace period the jedi council had conflict. Just to let you know, POTE also stated that yoda is the most powerful foe of dark siders meaning he is stronger than every sith lord before sidious as POTE stated, Now sidious is yodas equal meaning sidious in his prime(TPM) and that too means he > revan That in that age Lightsaber technuiqes were more emphasized, wrong again. The PT jedi still practised and even perfected the traditional lightsaber forms that the kotor era jedi practised and master windu has invented a new form which none of the kotor jedi could come up with : vaapad, the best lightsaber style to use against a dark sider according to star wars insider and shatterpoint which is what made a rusted sidious fall and thus much more improved upon when compared to those of the movie era. See the above I'm saying that in the 1000 years of peace the Jedi Order experienced, they were weakened, and lost much of their ability as fighters when compared. I'm saying that the KOTOR era was strife with war, See the above, If the jedi were so weak during the PT then the clone wars should have easily wiped them out (Against thousands of enemies ON PAR with Jedi, 1 vs 1, like Dark Jedi, Mandalorians, Sith, Trentek, etc.) the Jedi of that era were all around MORE POWERFUL IN COMBAT when compared to the Movie era Jedi because of those enemies. Uh no. I take it you have never heard of renegade jedi before or dark jedi? They existed even during the PT era and getting killed by the jedi council. Besides in the commentary of the SW trilogy Lucas clearly stated the PT jedi are at the peak of combat prowess. Allow me to help you out here man. When Lucas says "Prime of The Jedi." This would mean "Prime of Peace, and Prosparity." Not "Prime of Combat." A common misconception I supose. He was referring to combat, nick gillard backs this up too ;)Comics aren't above games in Canon. Ironic, Games and comics are in the c-canon classification.If i go by your logic darth vader would be able to summon lightning seeing he demonstrated that in the ROTS game which defied the comics and various sources which states he cannot and will not. Gameplay mechanics are not canon, only the cut scenes are. And i happened to read that "exile is more powerful than revan". Uh? Firstly the exile has not demonstrated anything remarkable which is relevant to combat prowess. The kotor jedi stated she is just an average jedi and believe me, revan by far is alot more powerful than the jedi exile seeing that he himself has done quite a number of intresting feats, However it still puts them below sidious Now here is wht I need your source on. Give me a link to where you read these 2 "facts." Or stop saying them, because they aren't true. you have yet to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 And Lucas states that sidious is more powerful than just about every other Sith lord. Ever read star wars insider? He was asked "why Vader and sidious are so popular in the star wars UNIVERSE, His reply? Because they(Vader and Palpatine) are the most powerful How bout the fact that in order to defeat sidious you have to be mace or Yoda? Those are statements he made in an interview You've got to remember he is promoting his movies and such, he's not gonna say well, actually a character I didn't invent is the most powerful Sith lord, 4000 years before new hope........... (casual fan/interviewer) Who? When? Why?.... George hired a crew of people at Lucas licensing to deal with new material and its canon-ness, I very much doubt he reads any of it, to tell you the truth when you see him in interviews he seems sick of hearing about SW. Regarding ROTJ, DE and the PT, his Idea of a prophecy and the "chosen one" Idea, was not realized until 1999, DE was published in 1992 which would normally of rendered the book n-canon but it hasn't, so were stuck with a contradiction. to quote another fan: It can also be argued that Anakin indirectly killed Palpatine by fathering the Jedi twins who ultimately destroyed him. The only way you can decide who is more powerful is if GL himself made a film where Revan and sidious fought to the death, winner..er...wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 My source for the facts for Canon? Wookieepedia. Like I said. O...AND THE OFFICAL STARWARS SITE. and Wikipedia...and every single Canon source on the net. My canon were THE MOVIES. Darth Sidious is a SITH LORD. Not a DARK JEDI. Every source i've ever seen says so. If you hadn't caught on the "Comics are below games." Was a joke quote. You "see" the PT Jedi doing great feats because thats where most of the visual media is base upon where Star Wars is concerned. If the movies were set in the KOTOR Era, then you would see the exact opposite. Errr..The Golden Age of The Jedi. Ever heard of it? You seriosuly didn't read half my posts. Vaapad. Yha. Based off of the lost and incomplete Juyo From. Which was the ancient Lightsaber form used in KOTOR TSL, and was complete during that age. Guess what? "Pratice" is nothing like the real thing. Every single Jedi of the KOTOR era experieneced THE REAL THING. As soon as The Clone Wars ended THEY DID GET whiped out. Peak of combat orowess my shiny metal buttocks. When compared to what? Give me the quote. Nick Gillard is gonna need to show me where he said that too. One more final thing. Except for the last 2 lines of this reply, I'VE SAID ALL OF THAT BEFORE, IN PREVIOUS POSTS. READ THEM. Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 My source for the facts for Canon? Wookieepedia. Any one could have edited wookie. And you cant quote me because you cannot and will not counter my arguements. All you are doing is discrediting sources Like I said. O...AND THE OFFICAL STARWARS SITE. and Wikipedia...and every single Canon source on the net. Even star wars.com disputed sidious as the strongest sith, If you actually DID read every canon source you would have agreed to their statements, Such as dan wallace statement of palpatine triumphing over revan, exar kun and the ancient sith My canon were THE MOVIES. Darth Sidious is a SITH LORD. Not a DARK JEDI. Every source i've ever seen says so. Um palpatines status in DE is ambiguous seeing that lucas stated the sith died out during rotj and that palpatine merely returned as a spirit which got into a clone body, Again i was referring to sidious AFTER rotj. There is NO contradiction as DE is approved by lucas himself and he was the one who authorised its status. IF there was a contradiction, either he or leland chee will make a statement and thus renouncing its canon status. What ever appears in the visual guide, the nec and the guide to characters is disputed as fact and canon. Accept it and move on with life You "see" the PT Jedi doing great feats because thats where most of the visual media is base upon where Star Wars is concerned. If the movies were set in the KOTOR Era, then you would see the exact opposite. Your clearly wrong, We have seen the PT jedi doing remarkable feats which puts them above kotor jedi who have yet to show anything impressive. The only ones in the kotor era who actually impressed me is nihilus, revan and malak. The rest are inferior to the PT era. Again G-canon(lucas) stated that the PT jedi are superior to KOTOR jedi in combat prowess. Accept it and move on with life. Errr..The Golden Age of The Jedi. Ever heard of it? You seriosuly didn't read half my posts. Vaapad. Yha. Based off of the lost and incomplete Juyo From. Which was the ancient Lightsaber form used in KOTOR TSL, and was complete during that age. Uh your wrong. While vaapad is to complete juyo, its existence only came into place when mace windu invented it to complete the juyo form. Source? Shatterpoint, star wars insider and wookiepedia. And i didnt read half your posts? I have apparantly and im sad to say you havnt even read any of my posts at all. All the feats i put there which is backed up by novels: AOTC SOTE, sources: DESB POTC, GL proves that PT jedi > kotor jedi and sidious > revan. Guess what? "Pratice" is nothing like the real thing. Every single Jedi of the KOTOR era experieneced THE REAL THING. Proof? Because as far as the story goes most of the jedi died in the mandalorian wars when their ships get blowed up by other warships. Most of the jedi died on dantooine before even getting to fight in JCW when malak ordered the bombardment on the academy. Infact most of the jedi died even before they could sense their enemy nihilus on katarr. Right they sure are powerful jedi. And i take it you said kotor jedi's faced the "real thing" your implying they are better experienced than the PT jedi? I will refute that in the next sentence. Dooku who has 6 decades of experience in the lightsaber arts lost to anakin skywalker whom is more skillful than him. Yoda who had 800 years experience of combat stalemated with sidious who only had around 50-60 years of experience. O, hey, and guess what else? As soon as The Clone Wars ended THEY DID GET whiped out. Not all of them sadly, Yet many of them still survived as compared to the JCW and SCW where only what? 5 jedi masters survived. They got wiped out not knowning and unable to use their precognition as sidious clouded their vision with the dark side of the force thus preventing them from for seeing them getting back stabbed by their own soldiers. Peak of combat orowess my shiny metal buttocks. When compared to what? Give me the quote. Nick Gillard is gonna need to show me where he said that too. Did you even read the link nikkolas gave you? Or are you going to watch the commentary for ROTS and TPM? Facts > your opinion One more final thing. Except for the last 2 lines of this reply, I'VE SAID ALL OF THAT BEFORE, IN PREVIOUS POSTS. READ THEM. You havnt backed them up friend. Your speculating without proof You want more proof? Proof you get Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes." ^ bingo Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine." You've got to remember he is promoting his movies and such, he's not gonna say well, actually a character I didn't invent is the most powerful Sith lord, 4000 years before new hope........... Well DE's canon status hasnt been retconned nor renounced according to LFL leland chee and lucas (casual fan/interviewer) Who? When? Why?.... Star wars insider? Rolling stones interview? George hired a crew of people at Lucas licensing to deal with new material and its canon-ness, I very much doubt he reads any of it, to tell you the truth when you see him in interviews he seems sick of hearing about SW. He doesnt care about it, true but he allows it as long as it does not contradict his movies and guess what? He read Dark empire according to the interviews and he admired it. Did he renounce its canon status? No, Did he or any lucas arts employee remove its canon status? No Instead they wrote it in TVG and NEC as facts which has been disputed canon Regarding ROTJ, DE and the PT, his Idea of a prophecy and the "chosen one" Idea, was not realized until 1999, DE was published in 1992 which would normally of rendered the book n-canon but it hasn't, so were stuck with a contradiction. Again there is no contradiction. Have you ever heard of the pretender sith? Thats what sidious was in DE, He died in ROTJ thus the sith have become extinct. His return in DE doesn't mean the sith returned. And since the sith became extinct in ROTJ. He is merely a pretender sith . to quote another fan: It can also be argued that Anakin indirectly killed Palpatine by fathering the Jedi twins who ultimately destroyed him. Well george lucas statement clearly refuted that claim seeing that he stated the sith died out in ROTJ The only way you can decide who is more powerful is if GL himself made a film where Revan and sidious fought to the death, winner..er...wins!GL HAS decided who is stronger. He said for some one to defeat sidious you have to on the level of mace or yoda which revan clearly isnt seeing that POTE stated yoda is more powerful than any dark sider save for sidious Mod note: Edited offensive tone. What did I write above? Please cool down a bit unless you want an official warning. ~M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 ^^^ I've read them yes, does that mean I can't disagree with them, this isn't a "whoever shouts louder, or, sounds like they know what there talking about wins" Thread! But thats not the point, your mis-quoting me and putting answers where there isn't a question. I'm actually agreeing with you on a lot of things! chill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 ^^^ I've read them yes, does that mean I can't disagree with them, this isn't a "whoever shouts louder, or, sounds like they know what there talking about wins" Thread! But thats not the point, your mis-quoting me and putting answers where there isn't a question. I'm actually agreeing with you on a lot of things! chill... Uhh ok sry and thanks. I was just inputing alot of things so that jambi guy would get a better explanation. Im very sorry i forgot to specify who am i trying to alert on that matter. Well its kind of my style where i put in answers when there isnt a question so that that question wouldnt be asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 ^^^ Cool. Like you say DE is canon, the same way that the clone wars cartoons and the force unleashed is canon, they are official but translate the characters very differently to the movies. I'd say, EU Palpy= unstoppable movie Palpy= pretty special as Revan is only represented in the more super power fantasy based EU/gaming genre, its hard to tell. Although I am a Fan-boy so, Revan all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Mace beat Sidious. That much is fact. Speak to GL if it bothers you that much so the film can be remade where he doesn't. So, Obama or Hillary? Something that actually matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Mace beat Sidious. That much is fact. What irritates me is you do know zoom in on matters. You dont ask yourself what contributed to his defeat and until you understand i will keep repeating 1)Sidious has not fought with the force or used his lightsaber for 13 years and him nearly killing mace windu and killing the other 3 is very remarkable 2) DE sidious will put movie sidious to shame 3) It was a pure lightsaber duel without the usage of force powers at any given point of time and had palpatine been able to execute his other arsenal, mace would have got owned Speak to GL if it bothers you that much so the film can be remade where he doesn't. Um no, it doesnt bother me at all but the fact that you do seeing that you dont want to zoom in on matters to take a closer look And so what mace beat sidious anyways? Sidious is above revan according to c and g canon ^^^ Cool. Like you say DE is canon, the same way that the clone wars cartoons and the force unleashed is canon, they are official but translate the characters very differently to the movies. I'd say, True, I agree EU Palpy= unstoppable Not exactly unstoppable. The only known person strong enough to face and defeat DE sidious is NJO luke skywalker as Revan is only represented in the more super power fantasy based EU/gaming genre, its hard to tell. Although I am a Fan-boy so, Revan all the way Dont get me wrong, I like revan too and im a revan fan but when it comes to debates i have no choice but to go by the facts Now in all honesty i put revan as 2nd strongest sith due to him(or her in my book) having incredible knowledge of the force which surpasses what has been in the korriban archives during POD. I am not trying to downplay revan at all, Why? Because she(imo but canonically a he) is 3rd favourite character to me. Now i would argue that revan > vader even though vader is my favourite character of all SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Uh huh, and that's why you came in here with all this flame bait is it? Because it didn't bother you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Uh huh, and that's why you came in here with all this flame bait is it? Because it didn't bother you? Sadly i have yet to flame any one since i have been warned. And no, it doesnt bother me at all because there are facts to state why sidious lost to mace. You just did not bother to read why and refuse to accept the fact that sidious is superior to revan. I simply do not care if sidious lost to mace in a duel, Why? Because it is irrelevant to this debate. If your trying to say because mace> sidious, and revan > mace. So therefore revan > sidious. Then because yoda = sidious and mace > sidious, mace also > yoda when several sources stated yoda is superior to mace windu and where windu is 2nd to yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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