"Reproduction" in games

[SilentScope001]

Now, I am okay with mindless genocide. I hate gore, but that's another story...

 

But "reproduction"? I understand that many people like love, but, erm, some of us are religious people who are a tad upset with the "reproduction"-ization of culture and games.

 

It's also rather insulting. I want to save the galaxy. I don't want to sleep with a chick. Especially a chick who is designed solely so that I can sleep with her.

 

Now, before, I'm okay with having to sleep with so-and-so...off-screen. But now, games like Mass Effect are doing it on-screen, which very well offends me.

 

Honestly. But I am ranting and raving, and market forces overwhealm me. Still, moral decency should be at least taken into consideration, please? At least get some sort of scaleable rating for us to have: Love scenes of "reproduction"? Set it to XXX. Want to just have discussions of jazz and music instead of heading to the bedroom? Then set it to 'Tame'.

[Jae Onasi]

Yep, I'm not all that excited about my young kids overhearing electronic moaning and groaning as a couple does the Wild Thang. At least give me the option to skip it or have a 'discretion' filter or something. I'm married--I don't need the pixelated version when I have the Real Deal at home.

[Web Rider]

Games where the goal is to f-word somebody have been around for ages. Games adding reproduction is just a logical conclusion. I have never been fond of sex scenes in games and movies, especially when it felt like they weren't pertinent to the plot. And I don't much like the idea of characters in the game who are there JUST for you to have sex with, though I imagine if they're a prostitute like in GTA3 and up, that makes sense.

 

Lets take Fable 2 since it's suppsoed to include this. It makes sense. "birth control" was limited in the past, and your average fantasy universe is not set in a place with BC shots and morning after pills and condoms. And many games are now starting to include sex. Many movies, books, and a variety of other things have made sex relevant to the plot either in thought-out relationships or in having to seduce some bad guy or something.

 

Having a child come out of that is only logical given the setting of your average fantasy RPG. I agree that many scenes and styles in which copulation is done are tasteless and IMO, dumb, but I think it's a logical progression in games.

 

Games

Games with romance

Games with romance+sex

Games with romance+sex+pregnancy.

 

The problem I seem to think most people have with it is that the people playing the game are often not of the appropriate age group that should be playing the game. If scenes of sex and it's results bother you, it, IMO, raises more questions about you than the game.

[Achilles]

*wonders why blood, gore, violence, shooting, stabbing, slicing, dicing, hacking, brawling, punching, kicking, biting is okay, but the natural act of sex is somehow offensive*

 

Why the double standard guys?

[Jae Onasi]

It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).

[jonathan7]

*wonders why blood, gore, violence, shooting, stabbing, slicing, dicing, hacking, brawling, punching, kicking, biting is okay, but the natural act of sex is somehow offensive*

 

Why the double standard guys?

 

Agreed; you were posting that my friend as I was typing the below...

 

I think violence content over sexual content is a far bigger problem. I must confess I've never understood the American film certificate bunch; you can kill masses of people in a film and they don't blink an eye; someone gets nude and its adult content? Surley nudity is far more natural than violence? I think we should protect kids from violence over nudity. Personally I choose not to do the whole sex thing in games, but I'm not fussed if theyre there for those that want them. A game like Mass Effect is designed for the 15+ age range anyway, so I'm personally not bothered if sex is in it; personally I won't do that, but I'm sure a few of my friends will.

[Web Rider]

It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).

 

would not that be the "on/off" button on the TV/Game console? Not to be offensive, but you bought the game in which there is "mature content", should not it be your responsibility to protect your kids? Not some faceless corporation across the nation?

[Achilles]

It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).

Could you please provide me with an example of a game that has high sex/low violence content (other than Leisure Suit Larry), so that I might have context for your argument?

[Jae Onasi]

@Web Rider--That's why I'd like it to be an option to filter. Those who want it, fine, those who prefer not to, fine.

 

I play the M games (what few I have) after my kids go to bed or are at school. If they happen to get up in the middle of the night, however, I'd prefer they not see something entirely crass. That, and some of the M games have great stories and are a lot of fun to play (Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines comes to mind immediately), but I'd really have preferred to filter out the excess boobage/pasties, e.g. in Club Vesuvius. and would have done so if I'd had the option available to me, even if I did like VV.

 

@Achilles--why does it matter if there's high sex/low violence? I just prefer not to see people humping each other. I don't watch porn for that reason (aside from the moral issues). Whether there's violence in the game or not is irrelevant to whether there's sex in the game.

[Web Rider]

That's why I'd like it to be an option to filter. Those who want it, fine, those who prefer not to, fine.

 

I play the M games (what few I have) after my kids go to bed or are at school. If they happen to get up in the middle of the night, however, I'd prefer they not see something entirely crass. That, and some of the M games have great stories and are a lot of fun to play (Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines comes to mind immediately), but I'd really have preferred to filter out the excess boobage/pasties, e.g. in Club Vesuvius. and would have done so if I'd had the option available to me, even if I did like VV.

 

So you still believe it is the reponsibility of some corporation to do a wide variety of programming to make some random mom happy instead of your responsibility to NOT BUY games with that kind of content.

 

You chose to have children, and it is IMO, your responsibility to protect them, not the government's, not Rockstar or Sony or Nintendo.

[Achilles]

So if you were up playing games late into the night and one of your children awoke and came in to find you playing KotOR (i.e. fighting dark jedi with a lightsaber while your other party members shot at them with blasters), would you have the same reservations?

 

Is there some fundamental difference between seeing VV is a corset and them walking in on you while you're changing (I'm assuming that you haven't gone so far as to teach them to feel shameful about their bodies)?

 

I think Jonathan7 captured it perfectly: what is wrong with us as a society that violence (even a small amount) is acceptable but sex is not? This question may be quasi-rhetorical, as I think I may already know the answer, but we can always fire up another religion thread if need be.

[Jae Onasi]

If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

Is there some fundamental difference between seeing VV is a corset and them walking in on you while you're changing

Yes there is a difference--I'm not trying to seduce my children if I happen to be in my bedroom with no clothes on and they walk in.

[Web Rider]

If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

 

Why should they? The point is not that they CAN, but why they SHOULD.

 

I don't even see why violence filters should exist at all. if you don't like violent games or don't want your kids to see violence, why are you interested in buying violent games?

 

Yes, they may have good plot, but if you are teaching your kids that "violence=bad!" then you are obviously not teaching them to differentiate between a video game and real violence.

[Jae Onasi]

@Web Rider--I can't _make_ them put a filter in--but it would be nice. Ultimately there will be some games, and probably some terrific ones, that I won't buy because of sex content that I might have considered if there were to be the option to filter it.

[Achilles]

Yes there is a difference--I'm not trying to seduce my children if I happen to be in my bedroom with no clothes on and they walk in.

So you think the video game is trying to seduce your children? I'm not understanding the argument.

[Web Rider]

@Web Rider--I can't _make_ them put a filter in--but it would be nice. Ultimately there will be some games, and probably some terrific ones, that I won't buy because of sex content that I might have considered if there were to be the option to filter it.

 

Of course, now, if you want to make your opinion known to the various game companies that if you make a "blackout" scene option like many games already have for copulation scenes or nude scenes, I have no qualms with that. But your assertion that you feel it's their responsibility to protect your kids is, IMO, wrong.

 

If you can make them feel like there is a big enough market that would buy their games if they had this option, I'm sure they'd do it, but frankly, most moms aren't playing possibly violent/sexual games and it isn't a concern for them.

[Jae Onasi]

Ugh--the replies are coming so fast it's hard to make sure someone hasn't posted in between when I'm replying to the post above....

 

Achilles--I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your 'not understanding', but whatever.

 

VV's all about seduction. Her club exists to sell sex. She's in her imaginary corset to sell imaginary sex to her imaginary visitors in Pixel-land. I want my kids to appreciate the human body for all its amazing things (including reproduction), not to see it as a crass tool for selling sex, as 'portrayed' by Club Vesuvius.

 

If they have a filter, great, if not, I won't buy some games, oh well.

 

@Web Rider--the industry doesn't owe me or my kids a darn thing. However, if they'd like to have the business of those of us who aren't into seeing gratuitous sex, then they might want to consider having/keeping the 'fade to black' option for those of us who prefer a little more discretion.

[Corinthian]

I take it you never played Bloodlines, Achilles, or at least, never spoke with Velvet.

[mimartin]

Now, before, I'm okay with having to sleep with so-and-so...off-screen. But now, games like Mass Effect are doing it on-screen, which very well offends me.

You do know the romantic sub quest is optional in Mass Effect? I actually thought it was well done and tasteful, no worse than any PG13 movie. I don’t see the reason to put it into a game, I actually like the fade to black as seen in KOTOR and Jade Empire, but if that is what sells then who am I to judge as long as I have the option not to see it.

 

Still I’d rather see a blue alien butt then be able to rip someone head off. Actually, now that I’ve thought about it, I’d like a game where you could do both at the same time.

[Achilles]

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your 'not understanding', but whatever.

If your children walk into your room while you're playing Vampire and see VV, assuming that you don't have headphones on, they are at worst going to hear flirting. Not the groaning and grunting of copulation. They are going to see her clothed. Not naked. So what is the difference between them walking in and seeing a clothed woman with cleavage on a computer screen talking and them walking in on a fully-naked mommy getting dressed? Your statement was that you were not trying to seduce, which would seem to imply that the video game would be. Since video games don't try to seduce people (let alone children) the last time I checked, I don't understand the argument. I hope that helps.

 

The other part of this equation that I still don't have is how seeing VV in a corset compares to seeing Darth Sion getting mowed down by a lightsaber and two blasters on Korriban (for example).

 

I take it you never played Bloodlines, Achilles, or at least, never spoke with Velvet.

I've played it many, many times. In the version I own, VV takes you upstairs to talk while wearing her clothes. I'm not sure what version you or Jae own, but by the sounds of things, it sounds as though I should be incredibly jealous.

[Jae Onasi]

Achilles--I was thinking more of the girl in the pasties and the other women in the club in g-strings doing the grind dance on top of guys, but VV's name sprang to mind first.

[jonathan7]

I think Jonathan7 captured it perfectly: what is wrong with us as a society that violence (even a small amount) is acceptable but sex is not? This question may be quasi-rhetorical, as I think I may already know the answer, but we can always fire up another religion thread if need be.

 

Interestingly I have a theory that the apparent rise in sex killers/pedofiles etc, is the very strange relationship to violence and sex Western Culture has. See its fine to go around shooting people; but getting naked, thats a different matter!

 

So if you were up playing games late into the night and one of your children awoke and came in to find you playing KotOR (i.e. fighting dark jedi with a lightsaber while your other party members shot at them with blasters), would you have the same reservations?

 

This is in many respects exactly my point; I think people have become so de-sensitized to violence they don't even think about that; yet people have remained sensetive to sex. Its a very mixed message we send out to our kids really; its fine to run around killing people with a lightsaber, but getting naked... thats different.

 

If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

 

I do on the other hand see Jae's point; ultimatly we play games to enjoy; a sex filter could be good for those who don't want to see such things, as it means they can customize their own gaming experiance.

 

Then there are games such as GTA which I personally won't play because of the content as it doesnt appeal to me; so because of that I avoid it; and I wouldnt play it and then complain about the content as I already know what Im going to get with it. Because of that I personally don't play such games but I won't kick up a fuss about the game as I don't think its my place, we enjoy different things and I have no problems with others playing them.

[Achilles]

@Jae: Fair enough. So how does your children potentially seeing a nude woman on computer screen compare to the Darth Sion on Korriban fight that I used as an example earlier? Just as worrisome? Not nearly as worrisome? Much more worrisome? Does your moral indignation regarding the lack of filters extend as far as violence in games such as KotOR II:TSL?

 

I do on the other hand see Jae's point; ultimatly we play games to enjoy; a sex filter could be good for those who don't want to see such things, as it means they can customize their own gaming experiance.

Mmm...I'd like to agree but I can't. Games come with ESRB ratings. You know ahead of time if there is violence or sexual content. I think it's reasonable for adults to be able to distinguish between T for Teen and AO for Adults Only all by themselves. If an adult has a problem with sexual content in games and only buys games that do not contain said sexual content, then that's their decision. I do think that it's impossible to ignore the hypocrisy of being against sexual content but being ok with violent content. If these adults were truly honest with themselves I think we'd see a lot more games like Tetris being made because the developers would be scrambling to keep up the demands of the market. My 2 cents.

[jonathan7]

Mmm...I'd like to agree but I can't. Games come with ESRB ratings. You know ahead of time if there is violence or sexual content. I think it's reasonable for adults to be able to distinguish between T for Teen and AO for Adults Only all by themselves. If an adult has a problem with sexual content in games and only buys games that do not contain said sexual content, then that's their decision. I do think that it's impossible to ignore the hypocrisy of being against sexual content but being ok with violent content. If these adults were truly honest with themselves I think we'd see a lot more games like Tetris being made because the developers would be scrambling to keep up the demands of the market. My 2 cents.

 

Hehe, fair enough; personally I've never been bothered by sexual content in games (or films) if it fits in with the plot and has a point then fair enough. I must confess though the abligatory (sp) sex scenes in some films do annoy me as they can tend to detract from a film.

 

The strange relationship between sex and violence does to me remain a concern, whatever the merits of the rest of the conversation; consider this if you kill someone in a Star Wars game (especially if DS) but don't want to see naked people in a Star Wars game what are we teaching children, teenagers and ourselves?

[Tommycat]

There's a good reason to add content filtering. Parents like games as well. Personally I would prefer if they would allow it, have content filtering on by default, and allow you to turn it off. Reason being, if a game is to be played on a console, then in order for me to play a game that has mature content, I have to ensure my children are not around for it. I include graphical violence in this as well. Granted my kids are getting to the point where they can see it, but when they were younger, I would have to be much more careful about it. The physical acts may or may not be enjoyable to watch, but when you're playing it on a 52" TV with Bose speakers announcing the whole act to the household, it would be preferable to have the fade to black scene skip available. For those that want to see the deed being done(and trust me, this scene is mild compared to what some people want to see), you can turn content filtering off.

 

Basically I'm saying give parents another option. This way the company gets more money rather than parents refusing to buy games. Adding a content filter can't cost more than the lost revenue.