M@RS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You can't see it though, sure you can study wind, wind speed, wind chill things like that but, you can't see it, God's just like that, you can't see him but you can see him affect the world, like I said in my last post, miracles, the supernatural...I've seen demonized people get healed and released from the shackles of that demon, it's pretty radical, I've seen legs grow up to two inches, you can't just tell me they had a growth spurt in one leg the same time the whole church was praying for it to grow, God made it grow...he's like the wind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The notion of the existence of any individual or phenomenon can only be perpetuated in our minds and what we imagine that individual or phenomenon to be like. Without the human imagination, there is no perpetuation of thought. field test 1: I asked my cat if he would tell his descendants and colleagues about Jesus(et al), he looked at me blankly. field test 2: I asked my pet bansai tree if it would divulge its ruminations about Jesus(et al), it offered no response field test 3: I asked my animated Italian neighbour about his ruminations about Jesus. An hour later, I retreated to my medicine cabinet, for two capsules of paracetamol. We humans assume we are awfully special, dont we !!! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You didn't really believe it would happen, besides it was really a mockery, you weren't serious and God isn't going to play stupid games like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You can't see it though, sure you can study wind, wind speed, wind chill things like that but, you can't see it, God's just like that, you can't see him but you can see him affect the world, like I said in my last post, miracles, the supernatural...I've seen demonized people get healed and released from the shackles of that demon, it's pretty radical, I've seen legs grow up to two inches, you can't just tell me they had a growth spurt in one leg the same time the whole church was praying for it to grow, God made it grow...he's like the wind... The fact that our senses are limited is not proof there is a God. A horde of invisible purple elephants could be the root behind both wind and gravity - the elephant bloweth and the elephant sitteth on us. They cannot be discerned by any sense, and they have complete omnipotency; as such, how can any deny their divinity? Oh, and demons are only the masquerades of invisible mice. They are the immortal enemies of the elephants, for they are tiny and confined to our cupboards and closets. The only moment of respite for the mice is to infest ordinary humans and play tricks on them. On a slightly more serious note, how do you determine that the phenomenons of the natural world are caused by any particular God or gods? How do you know it is God, not Allah, not Vishnu, Zeus, Juno, or Thor? God isn't going to play stupid games like that... What a display of hubris you show. Evidently, you know what God is not going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Because from what I've learned about them, they're pretty cruel to their followers or very strict, with God, there are only a couple of rules you need to follow, pray, read the bible, go to church, ask god into your heart, witness, tithe, and you're going to heaven. Wouldn't you want to follow a few rules and have an awesome eternity living in a mansion, no tears, no pain, and streets of gold, think about it, isn't it better than dying and that's it, Evolution really points that direction, I'd prefer dying and going to Heaven AND, quit with the mockery okay. I'm frankly rather FREAKING SICK OF IT. I'm just making a point...that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Because from what I've learned about them, they're pretty cruel to their followers or very strict, with God, there are only a couple of rules you need to follow, pray, read the bible, go to church, ask god into your heart, witness, tithe, and you're going to heaven. I take it you're not a Catholic, then. Quick question, though: is the God of the Old Testament the same as the New Testament? Wouldn't you want to follow a few rules and have an awesome eternity living in a mansion, no tears, no pain, and streets of gold, think about it, isn't it better than dying and that's it, Evolution really points that direction, I'd prefer dying and going to Heaven Pascal's wager. If God does exist, I figure there's really only two outcomes to my choice. The first one is that I steadfastly adhere to my evidently flawed attempt to use reason to guide my beliefs: he'll either see me as plucky and reward me for my well intended effort, or doom me to Hell in spite of it. If I believe only due to Pascal's Wager, he'll see through my bluff (he is God, after all) and smite me down because my spirit isn't true. AND, quit with the mockery okay. I'm frankly rather FREAKING SICK OF IT. I'm just making a point...that's all It's light hearted satire, and a key component of satire is that it has a message it's trying to bring across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The answer to your question yes God is the same in both the old and new testament, why? Pascal still became a christian... On November 23, 1654, Pascal is said to have been involved in an accident at the Neuilly-sur-Seine bridge where the horses plunged over the parapet and the carriage nearly followed them. Fortunately, the reins broke and the coach hung halfway over the edge. Pascal and his friends emerged unscathed, but the sensitive philosopher, terrified by the nearness of death, fainted away and remained unconscious for some time. Upon recovering fifteen days later, between 10:30 and 12:30 at night, Pascal had an intense religious vision and immediately recorded the experience in a brief note to himself which began: "Fire. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of the philosophers and the scholars…" and concluded by quoting Psalm 119:16: "I will not forget thy word. Amen." He seems to have carefully sewn this document into his coat and always transferred it when he changed clothes; a servant discovered it only by chance after his death.[15] This piece is now known as the Memorial. The story of the carriage accident as having led to the experience described in the Memorial is disputed by some scholars.[16] His belief and religious commitment revitalized, Pascal visited the older of two convents at Port-Royal for a two-week retreat in January 1655. For the next four years, he regularly travelled between Port-Royal and Paris. It was at this point immediately after his conversion when he began writing his first major literary work on religion, the Provincial Letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The answer to your question yes God is the same in both the old and new testament, why? Pascal still became a christian... Hope you're circumcised and that you don't eat meat with blood still in it. (Admittedly, this wasn't quite what I had intended. I was going to list examples of particularly violent acts committed by God on humanity like the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah, but your qualifier that he hasn't hurt his followers puts a damper on such accusations. Nothing comes to mind, anyway.) Pascal's own belief is irrelevant: I was simply attaching an established scenario to your reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The flood and Sodom and Gomorrah was judgement on the people who wouldn't stop sinning even after he told them to...here's something multiple pastors have told me "God's warnings are his mercies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The flood and Sodom and Gomorrah was judgement on the people who wouldn't stop sinning even after he told them to...here's something multiple pastors have told me "God's warnings are his mercies" What keeps him from passing judgment on us today? Nearly all of the world, the Western portion in particular, sins every minute of every day... (San Francisco would've already been the target of a meteor strike filled with ninja dinosaurs trained in the arts of improvisational nuclear enrichment, is all I'm saying.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 That's what hurricane Katrina, the cyclone in Burma, the tsunami in Indonesia, etc were...if you ask the leaders of the evangelical movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 You can't see it though, sure you can study wind, wind speed, wind chill things like that but, you can't see it, God's just like that, you can't see him but you can see him affect the world, like I said in my last post, miracles, the supernatural...I've seen demonized people get healed and released from the shackles of that demon, it's pretty radical, I've seen legs grow up to two inches, you can't just tell me they had a growth spurt in one leg the same time the whole church was praying for it to grow, God made it grow...he's like the wind... Are you on acid? You're seriously telling me that you saw someone just grow 2 inches over a short time and he sprouted up because God wanted him to? I'm a Christian, but I think that's false. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I've seen it multiple times, people complain of back pains, the pastor puts them in a chair and sees that one leg is shorter than the other, the leg grows and the pain is gone...it's really cool to see the person's face when they realize their pain is gone it's awesome...one leg grew 2 inches only one...I'm a pastor's son so I can't really get my hands on acid, and if I was on acid, so was the rest of the church who stood around praying and watching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I've seen it multiple times, people complain of back pains, the pastor puts them in a chair and sees that one leg is shorter than the other, the leg grows and the pain is gone...it's really cool to see the person's face when they realize their pain is gone it's awesome...one leg grew 2 inches only one...I'm a pastor's son so I can't really get my hands on acid, and if I was on acid, so was the rest of the church who stood around praying and watching... No one, of course, got this on video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I've seen it multiple times, people complain of back pains, the pastor puts them in a chair and sees that one leg is shorter than the other, the leg grows and the pain is gone...it's really cool to see the person's face when they realize their pain is gone it's awesome...one leg grew 2 inches only one.. Proof? How do your pastor just isn't playing you like an orchestra? He raises his hands, you sing his tune. Ever stood back, used individual thought, and thought about how your pastor could just be spoon feeding you information and "miracles"? How do you know his leg grew 2 inches? What, your pastor told you? Got film of this happening? And if this pastor and your church can cure that, why don't you walk around town curing everything? Why don't you hang out in a hospital and cure everybody? What, they not good enough for you? if I was on acid, so was the rest of the church who stood around praying and watching... This, my friend, is called mob mentality. The pastor says it is happening, gets your adrenaline pumping, then you simply believe god is doing it. I'm a pastor's son so I can't really get my hands on acid, and if I was on acid, so was the rest of the church who stood around praying and watching... Oh, but of course you are. Why would you ever disagree or doubt anything that daddy says? Because from what I've learned about them, they're pretty cruel to their followers or very strict, with God, there are only a couple of rules you need to follow, pray, read the bible, go to church, ask god into your heart, witness, tithe, and you're going to heaven. Learned from your daddy and the church I take it. God sends you to hell if you disobey him. He demands full loyalty to get into heaven. To me, that sounds like a blood thirsty dictator more than anything. Something that is supposed to love everything sure demands a lot in return. You can't see it though, sure you can study wind, wind speed, wind chill things like that but, you can't see it, God's just like that, you can't see him but you can see him affect the world, like I said in my last post, miracles, the supernatural.. How convenient for your argument. If God didn't exist because we couldn't see him, then you don't have a brain because I don't see it...see where that goes, I hope that helps http://www.dailygalaxy.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/human_brain_as_belief_engine.jpg Your turn. Wouldn't you want to follow a few rules and have an awesome eternity living in a mansion, no tears, no pain, and streets of gold, think about it, isn't it better than dying and that's it, Evolution really points that direction, I'd prefer dying and going to Heaven We all do. Humans fear death. It is a very hard thing to come to terms with. So, how do we avoid coming to terms with it? We make a fairy tale land of love and flowers to make it more comforting. People deny evolution and nothingness because it takes away that comfort. How do you keep that comfort? You ignore that which is uncomfortable and hug that which is. And it is not a few rules. Stop beating around the bush. Your god demands a lot from its followers, and if you do not follow you go to hell. That isn't a loving father. That is Hitler and his death camps. You conform, or you burn. The flood and Sodom and Gomorrah was judgement on the people who wouldn't stop sinning even after he told them to...here's something multiple pastors have told me "God's warnings are his mercies" Again with the following anything pastors tell you. Destroying a civilization doesn't sound like mercy at all. If that is his mercy, this world is doomed and every single person in it is going to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 No one, of course, got this on video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 1. The pastor wasn't telling us anything, we're a small church and everyone watched, I watched the person's leg grow, it truly was a miracle...if I had film you'd just say, special effects anyone can do it... 2. I watched it happen multiple times 3. I do disagree sometimes what DAD says... 4. I studied mythology and other religions...those Gods are cruel... 5. It's not convenient it's a good arguement 6. That's not a real picture, 3D Rendering is easy, I do it all of the time Yes I know you can see a brain with certain machines, but to the naked eye you can't... 7. Yes death is hard to come to terms with, everyone's scared, but I knew a lady who was coming to church who died, when we went to see her, she encouraged death, she knew it wasn't the end, it was the beginning of a happy eternity 8. The people who don't get saved burn, but if you get save, (IE: God forgive me for what I've done) you go to heaven, there are a few more rules, but if you meet at least this one, I'll see you in heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Not really conducive to the debate...suffice to say that jmac believes you are a troll m@rs ~ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Here we are at each other's throats and jmac7142 comes in like a bull in a china shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Here we are at each other's throats and jmac7142 comes in like a bull in a china shop What, a china shop that's a front for selling LSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 you won't give up will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 you won't give up will you?I believe you're the one who's been pulling arguments out of nowhere for the entire thread, friendo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Yes a little bit, I'll admit that, but I've been thinking about it and reading and stuff so my last few posts have stuff I've thought about for awhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Yes a little bit, I'll admit that, but I've been thinking about it and reading and stuff so my last few posts have stuff I've thought about for awhile...Well it's nice that you at least admit that you pulled your arguments out of nowhere. Thanks for getting the fact that you lied to win an internet argument off your chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I did not lie, I'm a christian I don't lie, I just said things that weren't relevant that's all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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