Bank bailout and US economic woes

[Jae Onasi]

Oh, Tip O'Neill, we miss you....

Yeah, I heard Pelosi's jab earlier and winced. It was a foolish thing for her to say and yet another reason why I can't stand the woman. She knows how to play Democratic politics like there's no tomorrow, but she's failed miserably as Speaker in trying to work with and actually lead both sides of the House. However, 40 pct of Dems voted it down, so I think the bill's failure is from far more than just Pelosi being a completely ineffective idiot.

 

As a home-owning taxpayer, I do not like the idea of paying for others' screwups. I don't want to pay for people who foolishly took out more of a loan than they could afford. I don't want to pay for big banks to get off scott-free by giving the bad debt to me via increased taxes, while they get to keep the cream and give their executives multi--million dollar salaries. I don't want to pay via taxes for companies that failed due to their own bad business practices, perhaps even fraudulent practices. Some of these home loans were made to people with completely inadequate or no income or assets. Are we supposed to be surprised when those loan goes into default? I don't have a business degree, but I have mastered the concept that making loans to people who don't have any way to pay the loan back is just Dumb with a capital 'Duh!'

 

The government wants me and my children to foot the bill for 700 billion with few checks and balances on the treasury sec'y or adequate regulations on banks to keep this from happening again, and lawmakers wonder why 40 pct of Dems and 66 pct of Repubs voted it down.

[mimartin]

Why did they reject it?

It was rejected by House Republicans in a political play to make themselves be seen as the conservatives saving America 700 billion by refusing to bailout Wall Street. Were the **** was this new found conservatism when they were voting on the pork of the last eight years? They get a backbone at the onetime America needs them to be their usual spineless selves.

 

 

If they are going to make this bailout political, we are in for a world of hurt.

[tk102]

The article I read cited Pelosi's highly-partisan closing speech criticizing the plan and Bush as another factor in the bill's demise.

 

^^ edit: yeah that's the one Chainz.

[mimartin]

Well if it was Pelosi’s comments that made 12 Republican Representatives, then they are as big of idiots as she is. That is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Ron Paul’s gold standard sounds pretty good about now. I don’t even have to look, I know he voted against it.

[Corinthian]

Does Ron Paul vote in the positive for any bills he doesn't propose?

[mimartin]

Does Ron Paul vote in the positive for any bills he doesn't propose?

He votes against those too.

 

 

addon:

Oversight, equality, forbearance, protection and responsibility – I see why the Republicans got so upset; it goes against the Bush doctrine. Thanks for the link Achilles.

[Achilles]

Anyone that wants to hear the comments themselves can find a clip here.

[Yar-El]

So, when they were going to vote for this bill, people were all upset and enraged. Now, since a majority voted against the bill, people are ticked off that it didn't pass.

 

I don't get it.

[Agent_Katarn00]

Well the economy is turning into well...

[Yar-El]

Bail Out 2: Analysts Say Big 3 Need Loans Quickly

Chrysler LLC, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp

 

I think they are trying to avoid a massive bail out. If they bail out the banks, everyone else will be looking for help. I would rather watch everything go through the floor. I'm beginning to think this whole mess is psychological.

 

If you gamble your money away, why should anyone pay for your losses? You don't learn. No one is going to help me when I'm down.

[Web Rider]

If you gamble your money away, why should anyone pay for your losses? You don't learn. No one is going to help me when I'm down.

 

It's a false comparason. If you take on a lot of debt and can't pay off your car, how badly does it hurt the economy? Does anyone lose their home? Does anyone get fired? Aside from you and possibly your family, the effects aren't going to be felt beyond 3 or 4 people.

 

The effects of a US economic crash could seriously damage the economy of not just the US, but of the entire world. There's a big difference between you being foolish with your money and a lending company being foolish with their money.

[Yar-El]

It's a false comparason. If you take on a lot of debt and can't pay off your car, how badly does it hurt the economy? Does anyone lose their home? Does anyone get fired? Aside from you and possibly your family, the effects aren't going to be felt beyond 3 or 4 people.

 

The effects of a US economic crash could seriously damage the economy of not just the US, but of the entire world. There's a big difference between you being foolish with your money and a lending company being foolish with their money.

A bulding is only strong as its pillars. Allowing these companies to fall will bring about stronger companies. Strength and leadership is formed out of the ashes of hardship. Our foudations are broken, and now we need to rebuild them. Newer pillars that can handle harsher storms need to replace them.

[Web Rider]

A bulding is only strong as its pillars. Allowing these companies to fall will bring about stronger companies. Strength and leadership is formed out of the ashes of hardship. Our foudations are broken, and now we need to rebuild them. Newer pillars that can handle harsher storms need to replace them.

 

Those sayings are quaint and all, certainly a good propaganda spin, but the thing that drug us out of the Great Depression was centralized government actions and a second World War. So, unless you're advocating a more centralized government, which I know you're not, you really don't want that "new, stronger system".

 

And you're right, pilars are only as good as each other, but, pillars are linked together by a cap at the top. Those are the rules and regulations that keep all the pillars in line. As other nations have shown, stronger linkage between the pillars can be very beneficial.

[Yar-El]

I came close to sounding like a politician. Lol..

 

Web Rider - You do have some good points. I have never seen effects of a regulated financial system before, so I don't know what the benifits or harms it may have.

 

Brain thunder moment --

Is not George Bush a reformed Republican with Democrat philosophies. What do they call it? Compassionate Conservative? It sounds like someone with a gun rack in a volvo. What the hell happened to the Republican party? Did they do a brain and body swap during the Clinton years?

 

George the big spending, war fighting, and tax cutting Republican. No wonder our government is messed up. The whole system is flawed. We have Republicans acting like Democrats, and we have Democrats acting like Republicans.

 

Yep, this bank bail out is going to be the death of us all.

[El Sitherino]

I have never seen effects of a regulated financial system before, so I don't know what the benifits or harms it may have.

 

Yes you have. Remember that huge surge of money in the '90's?

[Yar-El]

Yes you have. Remember that huge surge of money in the '90's?

After the deficit? Late 90s?

[Jae Onasi]

It was rejected by House Republicans in a political play to make themselves be seen as the conservatives saving America 700 billion by refusing to bailout Wall Street. Were the **** was this new found conservatism when they were voting on the pork of the last eight years? They get a backbone at the onetime America needs them to be their usual spineless selves.

 

 

If they are going to make this bailout political, we are in for a world of hurt.

 

Where were 13 more Democrats of the 93 that voted against it? Oh, yes, the ones who were Dem committee chairs and ranking leaders who wanted to keep their seats by telling their constituents "Oh, I voted against it". Pelosi couldn't even keep her own party in line--40% voting against a bill she's trying to hammer through is a huge number. If she'd been smart, she would have made sure to have secured the necessary votes before letting her pets vote no to save their political butts. Obviously she missed out on the LBJ school of counting votes.... If she can't rally more than a lukewarm support from her own party, how is she going to rally support in the opposing party? After she ripped their heads off with her oh-so-bipartisan speech saying they were "causing the problem with Bush's failed economic policies" just prior to the vote, what was she expecting? Sweet roses and Sunshine Care Bears to fall from the sky along with those votes?

 

I hear a lot about how Republicans should have ignored the comment and done what was right for the country, and they could have had the courage to do that, and failed. They could have voted for it and then gotten together to make a joint statement about how they were able to rise above her petty attacks to do what should have been done. However, she should have never made the inflammatory comment to begin with. She's the Speaker of the House trying to push a tough bill through. She can't just blow off half of the members of Congress without there being some ramifications. Calling anyone who didn't vote for the bill 'unpatriotic' did not help matters. I don't care if I do vote Dem a lot of the time, I can't stand two-faced political rats like her who care more about playing petty politics in order to get elected and keep their little Congressional fiefdoms than about doing what's right, but she wasn't the only one guilty of that today. Both parties had people who were the epitome of everything that's wrong in Congress voting today.

[Achilles]

I hear a lot about how Republicans should have ignored the comment and done what was right for the country, and they could have had the courage to do that, and failed. They could have voted for it and then gotten together to make a joint statement about how they were able to rise above her petty attacks to do what should have been done. However, she should have never made the inflammatory comment to begin with.

I'm sorry, "I wanted to vote my conscious and do what's right for this country, but Nancy Pelosi hurt my feelings, so I couldn't"? No, not buying it.

 

First, I watched the video. Nothing "inflammatory" there.

 

Second, are these "statesmen" so thin-skinned that all it takes to change their vote is some alleged school-yard ribbing?

 

Third, are these "statesmen" so incompetent that all it takes to change their vote is some alleged school-yard ribbing?

 

I'm not buying any of this. What does strike me as having a hint of truth is that either a) they didn't want to vote for it and decided to use this as an excuse not too or b) they saw a chance to throw the Democratic party under the bus and jumped on it at the expense of economy.

 

Their job is to vote. They're saying that they couldn't do their job because someone said something they didn't like and rather than hold them accountable, we're going to mob the person that hurt their feelings. You may have your opinions about what's wrong with Congress, but I have my opinions about what's wrong with this country.

[Yar-El]

Wall Street set for rebound after huge drop

Its all psychological. We are going to open with a slight rebound. I don't think the crisis is long lasting. People are just nervous about the election year. Question in everyone's mind is, "What will the world look like after the new president arrives?" Obama and McCain have previously spoken about reforimg almost everything. Elections always stirs things up on Wall Street. If you add in the housing market issues and bad credit, you have a world of complete uncertainty. We will come out on top soon. There is no reason for a bail out.

 

Look back at the past eight to nine years, and you will see several similar psychological events.

 

Y2k - "All computer technology will stop, and planes will fall from the sudden lack of power. Quick grab your money, and store food and water. Technology is going to kill us because it cannot read 2000."

 

Internet Bubble - "Money, money, money. Buy, buy, buy. Sell, sell, sell. Wow! People are really buying into the internet. Buy a computer and get online. It will set you free! Endless advertising revenue, lack of laws, and tax free merchandise! Yahooo!"

 

Housing Bubble - "Money, money, money. Buy, buy, buy. Sell, sell, sell. Wow! We can get a house for free! I can get a house with two dollars in my pocket! Yes! What is that? I can buy a $500,000 home, and I can do it with a job that makes $15 an hour! What a great idea, and we can just ignore the whole, "This is an adjustible rate" clause."

 

Iraq - "The Redcoats are coming! The Redcoats are coming! Don't tell George but I think he is getting wars mixed up. Hey! I got a great idea. We can vote for this war now, but we can live in denial for the next fifty years. What a great idea! We can also plaster a mission success banner on an aircraft carrier, and then the president can declare victory! Thats even better! People won't even see the explosions and violence of an out of control Iraq! Lets do it."

 

We do this all the time. However, this time we stoped everything before overreacting. We are learning about how some politicians (ourselves included) have the ability to feed into extremes.

 

Consumer confidence unexpectedly improves

Stocks open higher a day after huge drop

[Jae Onasi]

I'm sorry, "I wanted to vote my conscious and do what's right for this country, but Nancy Pelosi hurt my feelings, so I couldn't"? No, not buying it.

Yes we all know it was butt covering.

 

First, I watched the video. Nothing "inflammatory" there.

Perhaps we weren't watching the same speech where Pelosi talks about how much the bailout will cost and then makes the comment that it costs less than Bush's failed politics. If you're trying to gain bipartisan support one of the most stupid things you can do is make a blatant political attack on the party you're trying to get support from and do it -before- the vote on top of it. It had all the tact of a dead toad, and shows just how little she actually wanted bipartisan support.

 

Second, are these "statesmen" so thin-skinned that all it takes to change their vote is some alleged school-yard ribbing?

I'd hope so but with the utter incompetance of this Congress, I would't be surprised. Disappointed, frustrated, and angry at their stupidity, yes, but not surprised.

 

Third, are these "statesmen" so incompetent that all it takes to change their vote is some alleged school-yard ribbing?

As incompetant as Pelosi making that bonehead comment. I don't have a lot of faith in their competence. I''ve seen more stupid things done this Congress for completely petty oneupmanship reasons rather than what's good for the country that I''m quite disgusted.

 

I'm not buying any of this. What does strike me as having a hint of truth is that either a) they didn't want to vote for it and decided to use this as an excuse not too

 

or b) they saw a chance to throw the Democratic party under the bus and jumped on it at the expense of economy.

Then explain why 13 of the 93 Dems that voted against it did so against their leader''s wishes. Pelosi didn't need those Repubs when she had a pool of 93 Dems to work with. The Repubs couldn't have thrown the Dems under the bus since the Dems hold the majority in both the House and the Senate, and enough Repubs had voted for the bill to secure passage.

 

Their job is to vote.

Their job is to represent their constituents. In my district, Ryan said he got 10 to 1 calls and emails against vs. for this bill.

 

They're saying that they couldn't do their job because someone said something they didn't like and rather than hold them accountable, we're going to mob the person that hurt their feelings.

I'm going to hold the Speaker and both the Dem and Repub leadership accountable for not doing her job.

 

You may have your opinions about what's wrong with Congress, but I have my opinions about what's wrong with this country.

Those are 2 different things. What's wrong with Congress is allowing petty politics to get in the way of doing what's right. What's wrong with the country in regards to this issue is greed, foolishness, and complete lack of appropriate oversight be regulatory agencies. Greedy companies made loans they knew the buyers couldn't afford. Greedy CEOs milked their companies for millions, quite likely fraudulently. Government agencies either didn't recognize fraud or chose to look the other way. Home owners did not do their homework to make sure they could afford what the lenders said they could afford, willingly abdicating their financial responsibility to predatory lenders.

All that needs to get fixed and I don't know if this congress and this administration is up to the task.

[Web Rider]

Wall Street set for rebound after huge drop

Its all psychological.

 

That's what I've been telling people for the last year. If you stop acting like we're all going down the tubes, pretty soon we won't be. Yeah, okay there's some major companies folding, but maybe, FINALLY the housing market will drop back down to reasonable prices.

[mimartin]

Then explain why 13 of the 93 Dems that voted against it did so against their leader''s wishes. [/Quote] What does the 13 Democrats have to do with it? They never changed their minds. They did not pledge their support and then pull it because the mean lady spoke unkind and hurt their little feelings.

 

Their job is to represent their constituents. In my district, Ryan said he got 10 to 1 calls and emails against vs. for this bill.[/Quote] Should they really listen to their constituents when their constituents are going against their own best interest. If banks fail and the stock market crashes whom do you think the constituents are going to blame? Hint: Most will not be blaming themselves. A representative’s job is to serve the best interest of his constituents and the country. That does not mean always doing what is most popular.

 

Personally, I’m against the bailout too. I just don’t see any real alternative. This couldn’t happen at a worse time being an election year.

[Caius Fett]

Oh Puhleaseee. This whole Bailout is nothing but a political ploy by both sides on capitol hill to make it look like they're doing something to "fix' what THEY broke in the first damn place. I wouldn't trust any of them to fix my tiolet let alone the ecomomy.

[mimartin]

Well if it is a political ploy then the Bush Administration is doing everything possible to sabotage John McCain’s campaign. Guess they forgot he was a Republican too.

 

There is no political gain to the Bush Administration to bring this to Congress. All it does is hurt the incumbent’s party in the upcoming election. No, this does not work as a political ploy and if it could have waited the Republican Administration would have waiting until after November 4th to bring this to the nation’s attention.

 

That does not mean that member of Congress and those running for the White House will not try to use this crisis to their advantage.

[Arcesious]

There was a funny political cartoon I saw somewhere.... I can't seem to find it, so I'll describe it:

 

Fat guy with a nice suit and and all kinds of fancy accessories walks down an alleyway dragging a wheelbarrow filled with tons of bags of money in a wheelbarrow. There is scrawny poor person whom is digging in a trashcan to find food. The fat guy asks the scrawny guy: "Spare some cash?"

The poor person says "You're kidding, right?"