Superweapons of the Empire (Death Star, Galaxy gun, Eclipse SD, Dark Troopers)

[Darth_Yuthura]

All the rebels would have to do against those is blast emwhen they see em coming, or they could just throw a starfighter in front of the missle so it blows up a starfighter instead of a planet

 

The missiles are equipped with shields and lasers for self-defense. They may not be unstoppable, but they were built to not be easily taken down.

 

As for the weapon itself, being protected by the fleet at Byss, it would have been suicidal even for the Republic to try and destroy the station with a direct attack. Palpatine even marveled at how it was so deadly because it never had to leave from a place of protection like the Eclipse or sun crusher. It could strike from anywhere and was just as fearsome as the Death Stars.

[Chevron 7 locke]

All you would have to do is move a large ship in front of them and boom goes the missle

[CommanderQ]

Well, the galaxy gun was indeed the epitomy of destructive firepower, indeed. I marvel at that power, but still, for jobs that require more precise attacks, the Dark Trooper does quite well as a ground attacker or boarder.

[Endorenna]

The only one of these I've seen is the Death Star, but I've read about the Sun Crusher and the Galaxy Gun. The Galaxy Gun sounds like the more dangerous of the two, but if both were used at once, that would be DEVASTATING!

 

Edit: The World Devastators sounds pretty nasty, too.

[Chevron 7 locke]

I would like to see all these weapons go against each other...

[Darth_Yuthura]

I won't argue at the Galaxy Gun's abilities... it is fiction after all.

 

There was a Voyager episode that had one of these kind of weapons and they are designed to be able to counter threats by outrunning, evading, or destroying opposition. They are much like cruise missiles of today by taking a path that makes it difficult to be tracked by radar or going through AAA threat ranges.

 

Just to put it short... the Galaxy Gun is VERY difficult to counter or defend yourself against. Even if you can shoot a missile down, all you need is for one to hit and you're doomed. The only way to eliminate the threat is destroying the launch platform, or it will just keep firing until it runs out of missiles.

 

Would you feel safe knowing a nuclear missile comes over our skies every day and we CAN shoot it down, despite that they come close to their targets every time? The Galaxy Gun was really more valuable as a terror weapon than through actual use, but it could be effective in practice as well.

[Chevron 7 locke]

No. No i would not. I however would enjoy...some Dark troopers of my own...hehehe

[Darth_Yuthura]

Right. Dark Troopers are really the best thing for an army, but despite their destructive power, they are limited to small-scale carnage. The Empire would have been invincible with an army of DT, but they required mass production. One Eclipse, one sun crusher, one Galaxy gun were enough. That was their strength and also their weakness.

 

Galaxy Gun was a terror-weapon alone, but not good for small-scale use and one accident doomed the station and all of Byss. Dark Troopers were effective for strengthening EVERY Imperial installation. That didn't come from any ONE weapon of mass destruction. That is where V-38's and Dark Troopers win on this thread. Eclipse was closer to this than the Death Stars, but only two were built at a time.

 

World devastators were the most efficient of the superweapons, but they needed weeks to 'destroy' an entire planet. Although they made use of the resources for factories, they were slow to deliver their destruction. They were not as flexible or versatile, but they were the most efficient way of defeating an enemy and were much like little mobile Star Forges.

 

Sun Crusher also had its own weaknesses. All you need is to capture it with a tractor beam and it can't really be destroyed, but could be captured and restrained very easily. One ship with a tractor beam and gravity well projector could capture it and it's neutralized and now in enemy hands.

[jrrtoken]

Dark Troopers, 'nuff said. Not only due to their immense size and plasma cannons, but also due to the fact that they made scary noises.

[jawathehutt]

Sun Crusher also had its own weaknesses. All you need is to capture it with a tractor beam and it can't really be destroyed, but could be captured and restrained very easily. One ship with a tractor beam and gravity well projector could capture it and it's neutralized and now in enemy hands.

Assuming the enemy even got the thing inside their own ship, whats preventing it from just driving right out, if it can drive through a star destroyer it can probably escape whatever forcefield is holding it in. Not to mention, how would the captors even get into it, like I said, it can sit around in a star, it can probably withstand some technician with a blow torch

[Rev7]

Death Star

Dark Troopers

Eclipse SD

[True_Avery]

Dark Trooper project

It was a powered exoskeleton. Like any piece of mobile armor, its strength is against the complicated and its weakness is against the simple.

 

A 4.5 million dollar US tank can be destroyed by a single $50 RPG 7 round fired by a child.

 

A cool concept, but hardly fitting the definition of a super weapon along side the others in the list.

 

Death Star(s)

For what the empire had been trying to accomplish, the Death Stars were the great weapons. Their agenda was seek, destroy, and crush under fear. If you have a space station large and well equipped enough to survive any conflict, then you basically have your best super weapon there.

 

The best weapon is a weapon you only have to use sparingly. Use the Nuke to put down the enemy in 2 strikes, and the world will be too afraid to do anything.

 

Outside of the fact that Lucas pulled a Deus Ex ending out of his bum, the Death Star was up there as being one of the more "realistic" super weapons in Star Wars. A giant, moving, nuclear-bomb-like fear machine. And it seemed to have at least enough weaknesses to be conceivable, even if the way it was destroyed was silly and out of the question and pretty much laughing at physics.

 

Still, the resource and credit drag on making one of them was excessive, and wholly unneeded seeing the Empires power at large. In the time it took that thing to pass the moon, they probably could have had a fleet in closer to simply bomb the hell out of the planet.

 

Great idea, but unneeded in the big picture.

 

Eclipse Star Destroyers

Yeah, so you built a ship several times bigger than the Super Star Destroyer. If I recall, the Super Star Destroyer in the movie was taken out by a single pilot hitting the command deck, sending it crashing into the Death Star 2.

 

Taking that same concept and making it bigger doesn't exactly make it an intelligent design. Its a super weapon in the same way a nuclear power aircraft carrier is a super weapon.

 

Galaxy Gun

This gun was a design that was too good to be true. In fact, it pretty much borders on Deus Ex machina.

 

The idea isn't exactly unheard of. We once tried to build Fusion Reactor powered missiles in a project called "Project Pluto". The idea was sound, but at the time the execution had much to be desired.

 

As with Project Pluto, the idea is sound and on the whole makes sense. You've got planet killing technology, and hyper speed travel. Your limitation is getting there to use that technology. So, just get the technology there itself by traveling faster than you!

 

Before our planes ever broke multiple mach speeds, our missiles were doing it first. It would probably make more sense for weapons to have use hyper speed travel long before human manned craft.

 

But still, implementation of the idea has much to be desired when used for a story. It was an amazingly accurate and powerful super weapon that seemed to cheat both the reader, and the story.

 

A deus ex cannon being destroyed in a deus ex plot twist by the good old deus ex droid. Its like reading FanFiction, but this time its Canon.

 

Sun Crusher

Like the Galaxy Gun, but this time blatantly being a mary sue deus ex weapon. Death Star too silly? How about a ship that actually spits on physics more than anything else in Star Wars.

 

It hid in a sun? Really? It survived 27,000,000° Fahrenheit? Yeah...

 

No.

 

It shot missiles that cause something that IS ALWAYS EXPLODING to explode and take out the system.

 

"The explosion then imbalanced the fusion reactions of a star, causing it to supernova."

 

Excuse me... wut?

 

Yeah, this mary sue deus ex insult to physics and storytelling can go away. Bye-bye.

 

EDIT: Ok, Lightsabers are more of a physics hack, but still... What the hell.

 

World Devastator

"It seemed that the only way to destroy a World Devastator was to have another Devastator consume it."

I hate wookiepedia sometimes... and if that is true, from what I've read, good job making another Mary Sue machina.

 

Its a mining machine. It picks up plots of earth, and mines them for resources that can be used for ship building.

 

Now, while I can see the advantages of this being a super weapon, its the same thing as calling a bulldozer a super weapon. It mines earth, and its built like a tank. It can also be used as a weapon if the situation so demands.

 

But seriously, can't be destroyed by anything by another? Ok, its metal armor. METAL ARMOR. While it may be resistant to energy fire, just hit it with bigger energy weapons! They aren't even that big! And if energy isn't working, use physical weapons.

 

Nothing is invincible. Or, at least, nothing should be. It is a piece of construction equipment that was temporarily being used as a weapon, except it had plot armor because the writer wanted to do something silly with Luke.

 

Hell, the Death Star would actually be a better piece of mining equipment than this. It blows up the planet, exposing its core and other materials to be freshly mined. If the World Destroyers and going to mine away the entire planet, might as well be quick about it. Its why we use things like TNT in mining operations.

 

Phantom tie fighters

We have something that resembles this in concept today.

 

The F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighter.

 

While the cloak concept is neat, its still just a Star Fighter. I'm not exactly sure what makes this a super weapon, other than the fact that if mass produced it would be a bother for a short time. Technology would catch up to it, and it would be rendered obsolete by the next generation of fighters.

 

I could bring in more Super Weapons, but frankly the EU on the whole is pretty bad.

[Rabish Bini]

Star Forge, why create an army that takes ages to make, when you can make an army almost instantly!!

[Darth_Yuthura]

In response to a comment on the Eclipse star destroyers... they are downsized Death Stars... not oversized star destroyers. The reason I voted for them was that they were powerful enough to inflict fear like the Death Stars, but didn't have to be 120 km in diameter.

 

I also said the Sun Crusher was easier to stop because of its tiny size and limited capabilities. Just because you can't really destroy it doesn't mean it can escape a tractor beam or if it were encased within an armored hanger. Its weapons are only for self defense, so you could capture it if you tried. That's its greatest weakness... being small makes it easy to stop where a star destroyer-sized ship wouldn't exactly be so easy to restrain. Galaxy-gun missiles may be like that as well, but there is only one Sun Crusher.

 

I really don't include the Star Forge in the list because it was not an Imperial weapon. The ones on the list were invented, developed, and built by the Empire where the Star Forge was just somewhere waiting to be found. If the Empire set out to build their own version of a Star Forge for themselves, then I would have considered it. (Actually the World Devastators are much like that)

[True_Avery]

In response to a comment on the Eclipse star destroyers... they are downsized Death Stars... not oversized star destroyers. The reason I voted for them was that they were powerful enough to inflict fear like the Death Stars, but didn't have to be 120 km in diameter.

Ah yes, my mistake.

 

In that case, the Eclipse would probably top the list for me over the Death Stars by a small margin. I still think the Death Stars sheer size gave it advantage over anything it could come across (I refuse to acknowledge that Luke could have destroyed that thing in a more "realistic" situation), and it is possible that the Death Stars could power down their beam to be about as powerful as an Eclipse's, but I've yet to know if that has been confirmed.

[Master Sandalf]

The Sun Crusher has never been into a star.

It was sent to the gas giant Yavin, for they thought the immense pressures there would render it in accessible. (Which of course was proven false.)

 

And as for the poll, I'd pick Death Star. A completed Death Star without a thermal exhaust port that is only two meters wide.

That and an Imperial fleet protecting it would make beings think twice before trying to attack.

[CommanderQ]

Well, the Death Star without a thermal exhaust port would explode because of its own heat and pressure...I have to disagree on the Death Star idea, the port was there for a reason. But an Imperial fleet might do really well defensively, but, look what happened to the second Death Star...

[Chevron 7 locke]

The death star was a waste of time and money. it detroyed one planet, and it was a planet full of pacifists. the death star was tainted by the murdered souls of Alderran

[TKA-001]

Imperial-class Star Destroyers: Although a single ISD possesses the firepower to melt the crust of a planet in less than a day (an operation known as a Base Delta Zero), Star Destroyers cannot strike fear nearly as well as a Death Star can. Even fleets of Star Destroyer-delivered bombardment would be ineffective against planets with shields (such as Alderaan). ISDs are not traditionally considered to be superweapons.

 

 

Death Star I: Possesses a primary weapon not only capable of overpowering a planetary shield with ease, but also of blowing a planet to fragments. The Death Star I would have been effectively invincible if not for the plans being stolen by the rebels. In fact, even with the plans, the rebels could never have won the Battle of Yavin if not for Tarkin's arrogance. He wanted to ignore the rebel fighters, but if he had launched even a fraction of the thousands of TIE Fighters that the Death Star has in its hangar bays, the rebels never would have stood a chance. The only reason the rebs encountered TIE Fighters at all is that Darth Vader was smarter about it and launched his personal squadrons under his own authority.

 

The Death Star's primary purpose was to frighten any planet into submission to the Empire, and allowing the Imperium to back up the threat of complete and utter destruction being the only other option. No planetary shields could deflect the Death Star's superlaser, and planetary shields were pretty much the only way a planet could hope to resist a sizable Imperial fleet for long.

 

 

Executor-class Star Dreadnaught: Throughout its existence, the Galactic Empire/Imperial Remnant constructed approximately a dozen of these vessels. They were essentially designed to serve as major command ships for the Imperial Fleet, and they possessed firepower allowing Executor-class ships to destroy entire enemy fleets on their own. There were also a number of starships that appeared to be similar in function and/or design to the Executor-class, such as the warship built for the Sarlacc Project and the Vengeance, a battlecruiser used by the Dark Jedi Jerec after the Battle of Endor.

 

 

Eclipse-class Star Dreadnaught:

 

Yeah, so you built a ship several times bigger than the Super Star Destroyer.

That statement is false. The Eclipse is actually slightly shorter in length an an Executor-class.

 

If I recall, the Super Star Destroyer in the movie was taken out by a single pilot hitting the command deck, sending it crashing into the Death Star 2. Taking that same concept and making it bigger doesn't exactly make it an intelligent design.

To be more accurate, the Executor was taken out by a single pilot hitting the command deck after its shields were down and it was suffering bombardment from an entire enemy fleet.

 

The Eclipse star destroyers were better than the Death Stars, but they still were too expensive to have in large quantities.

You ignore the fact that they're not supposed to be had in large quantities, either.

 

The Eclipse-class was essentially designed to combine the Executor-class Dreadnaught's capabilities as a massive warship with the Death Star's ability to penetrate planetary shields with a superlaser. The superlaser itself would also prove invaluable in straight-up fleet battles, allowing it to pick off opposing capital ships with relative ease. The Eclipse is also similar in design to the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnaught, which was smaller, but also possessed a superlaser.

 

 

Dark trooper project: The dark troopers were not superweapons, but they would have proved invaluable to the Empire if Kyle Katarn hadn't sabotaged the project. Three stages of dark troopers were produced. The first Phase consisted of a skeletal droid with a vibroblade and a shield for deflecting laser fire. It bore little resemblance to the later stages.

 

The Phase II dark trooper was heavily armored, possessed a jetpack, and wielded an assault cannon, a large shoulder-mounted weapon which fired high-powered lasers (capable of killing armored soldiers in one shot) as well as a rocket launcher. A small number of Phase II dark troopers decimated a rebel base (and the city in which it resided) on their own, so the accusation that they were as big a threat to the rebellion as the Death Star would not be entirely unjustified - dark troopers were clearly able to decimate rebel ground forces with impunity, while simply destroying every other planet that has a rebel base on it would be a waste.

 

The Phase III dark trooper was an exoskeleton suit designed to be worn by a stormtrooper. It was more heavily armored than the Phase II, and was armed with a five-barreled assault cannon and shoulder-mounted missile launchers. If the dark trooper project ever was completed, Phase IIIs likely would have served as anti-armor units, while Phase IIs would be best used against infantry and enemy light armor units. Since the rebels did not possess armies or hardware equaling the Empire's, they would probably have been screwed in almost any engagement with dark troopers.

 

 

Sun crusher:

 

Like the Galaxy Gun, but this time blatantly being a mary sue deus ex weapon. Death Star too silly? How about a ship that actually spits on physics more than anything else in Star Wars.

With all due respect, who gives a Σhit about physics in Star Wars?

 

In any case, the Sun crusher is as stupid as hell and I have nothing else to say about it.

 

 

Phantom TIE fighters:

 

We have something that resembles this in concept today. The F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighter.

You are making a ridiculous generalization if you mean to imply that the F-22 can be compared to a ship that literally turns φμςλing invisible.

 

As with the dark troopers, the Phantom TIE Project does not count as a superweapon in any sense of the word, but it still would have denied the rebellion of one of its major advantages over the Empire: Starfighter superiority. In the past, cloaking devices could only be used on very large ships, and had negative side-effects, such as sensor blindness. Phantom TIEs were capable of rapidly toggling their cloaking devices on and off, allowing them to remain hidden from enemy forces until they had gotten into an ideal attack position, at which point they could pick off the target(s) at their leisure.

 

The ability to mass-produce vessels as small as a starfighter with these capabilities would give the Empire a major advantage. One of the key advantages the Rebel Alliance had was its ability to attack using mobile, durable, multi-purpose starfighters. Rebel Assault II clearly showed that TIE Phantoms would be a perfect counter to this. It would not be unreasonable to infer that the Empire probably would have started outfitting bombers with cloaking devices, not to mention capital ships, since the Executor-class Star Dreadnaught Terror (flagship of the leader of the Phantom TIE Project) had a cloaking device on it. The Phantom TIEs' stealth abilities might have allowed them to be even been more effective than the TIE Defenders, due to the advantage of a cloaking device.

 

 

World Devastators: Undoubtedly more efficient than the Death Star, since they are capable of functioning as factories and can even attack enemy capital ships. Their overpowered shields/armor are essentially the only stupid thing about the concept.

 

 

Galaxy Gun: The Galaxy Gun is as stupid as hell and I have nothing else to say about it.

 

 

Death Star II: If it was completed, it would have been invincible to any attack, since the single thermal exhaust port that was large enough for a warhead to fit through was removed. In the end, however, the Death Star II wasn't really built because it was needed; it was built because Emperor Palpatine needed the perfect trap for the rebellion. He needed something which, if completed, would be unstoppable, because he knew that once the rebels found out about it, they would throw everything they had at it, because they would have no other choice. Therefore, since the Death Star II was built primarily to trap the Rebel Fleet, its function as a superweapon isn't all that important.

 

 

In the end, the smaller, more specialized projects that the Empire worked on would have been more effective than the big ones. Their supersoldier projects (like the dark troopers) and their fleet-related projects (such as the TIE Defenders, the TIE Phantoms, the TIE Experimentals, and the Missile Boats) all would have been more useful against the rebellion in the long run, as I highlighted above. While the Death Star would have been an immense weapon of fear for sure, the smaller projects served more specialized and ultimately more beneficial roles for the Imperial Military.

[Darth_Yuthura]

Galaxy Gun: The Galaxy Gun is as stupid as hell and I have nothing else to say about it.

 

Yeah... and the Death Stars, Sun Crusher, Phantom Ties were smarter how?

 

That was really the best of them in my mind for reasons I already gave. It was truly more dangerous than any of the others because it conquers distance and time where all the others would have to be at their targets in order to do the job.

 

In response to the F-22 comparison...

 

A single F-22 can take out FIVE F-15... and the F-15 has a 92/0 kill ratio in its decades of service. It would more accurately compare the Death Stars to the Eclipse due to their cost. You waste piles of money on an F-22 because they are faster, more deadly, and stealthy than they have to be.

 

Just because it COULD take out five F-15's doesn't mean it's as capable as those fighters. It is much more logical to use aircraft that are good enough... not THE BEST. Otherwise, you end up with one invincible fighter instead of 100 average ones. It makes more sense to have... say five Eclipse Star Destroyers than one Death Star.

 

PS: There are some discrepancies about the size of the Super Star Destroyer only being 8000 meters long. If the command tower were used as a reference, it would be more like 12,000. With either comparison, the Eclipse would still be many times more massive than the SSD in terms of its mass.

[RedHawke]

That statement is false. The Eclipse is actually slightly shorter in length an an Executor-class.

I wish to refute this statement... as the length of the Executor has been revised a few times from 5 miles (8km) to 11 miles (17.6Km) to its current 19Km length.

 

The Eclipse is stated in the Dark Empire comic to be around twice the length of the Executor, so if the accepted length of 19Km stands for the Executor then the Eclipse is 38Km+/- in length.

 

OT: I have my own Super Weapons for Star Wars.

[True_Avery]

You are making a ridiculous generalization if you mean to imply that the F-22 can be compared to a ship that literally turns φμςλing invisible.

So? It can turn invisible. Big whoop.

 

They would be mass produced, one would be stolen, and they technology would be useless within a few years.

 

Thus why I compare it to the F-22. Its invisible on Radar and many forms of tracking, but within 15 years I guarantee you it will be as useful as the F-15.

 

And if you are going to cuss, let the filter filter it. Filter dodging it against the rules here.

 

With all due respect, who gives a Σhit about physics in Star Wars?

I knew I'd get asked this.

 

I ignore most of it simply because its, well, awesome. But some things I don't feel like ignoring for the plot. If it is both ridiculous and "uncool", then I'll beat on it. If its ridiculous and awesome (like a Lightsaber), then I'll ignore physics and just cheer.

 

I mean, seriously... a missile that uses sonic resonance to cause a star to Super Nova? I'm not going to let that go simply because its such a stupid plot device.

 

And again, just cuss and let the filter take care of it. We know what you are saying.

 

To be more accurate, the Executor was taken out by a single pilot hitting the command deck after its shields were down and it was suffering bombardment from an entire enemy fleet.

I understand that. Still doesn't make it any less of an amusing death.

 

I just found the design to be amusing. They are taking the aircraft carrier design of the command center being above deck, but this is a spacecraft. I'd have assumed it would have been more protected in the belly instead of put out there for everyone to shoot at.

 

Yeah... and the Death Stars, Sun Crusher, Phantom Ties were smarter how?

 

That was really the best of them in my mind for reasons I already gave. It was truly more dangerous than any of the others because it conquers distance and time where all the others would have to be at their targets in order to do the job.

I don't think we're calling it an un-intelligent design. Just that, like the Sun Crusher, the idea in Star Wars as a plot device is laughable.

 

If I could get Devon in here, he can give a great explanation as to why the Death Star was a great design. Now if I could only find him...

[Darth_Yuthura]

I don't think the Death Star was such a great design from the start. Its cost was astronomical and although it symbolized a sort of invincibility to the Empire, its destruction actually had a greater impact than their presence. If a single fighter could destroy something thought invincible, then it would have become a propaganda weapon against the Empire.

 

The smaller the scale of the weapon, such as Eclipse and Dark Troopers, the less significant their loss would impact the Empire. The Death Stars were just too excessive and relied on brute strength over subtlety. I don't understand why so many voted for it over any of the others. Maybe they just assumed that because it was the focus of the original trilogy...

[Darth_Yuthura]

Maybe another way to look at the scale of superweapons was how effectively they could be countered. The Death Stars were essentially invincible, but a single explosive placed at the right location could doom the stations.

 

Dark Troopers were far from unstoppable, but they had strength in numbers and were difficult for small-arms to defeat. The only weakness they really had was the vulnerability of their factories and mining facilities.

 

Eclipse Star Destroyers were far from the Death Stars in terms of their invincibility, but they were so heavily defended that it might have been able to face the entire Rebellion's Fleet at Endor and still expect victory. The only Counter was a HUGE fleet or something related to the Force going wrong.

 

The Galaxy Gun was protected by the entire Empire's Fleet at Byss, so it was almost as impossible to destroy as the death stars. The missiles it fired might not have been so impervious, but every direct hit would have destroyed its target. The way it was destroyed(as well as Eclipse II) was when the Super Star destroyer's navigation SOMEHOW was taken control of and it rammed the Superweapon.

 

Suncrusher was invincible to an extent, but its small size made it vulnerable to being tractored by a larger ship. Its small-scale weapons would not have been enough to destroy the ship that captured it, but it would have been stopped. Larger ships were not as vulnerable to being caught, despite not being protected by molecularly-bonded armour.

[LordOfTheFish]

The Death Star, for certain. With it, they were able to house a grand army but still have them ready to move at all times. Coming in for a close second is ESDs for me. These ships are big enough, but next to the Death Star they are puny. Third being the World Devastators. Far more efficient than the Death Star, in terms of destroying planets. They even could use the planets toward the Empire's benefit.

 

Dark Trooper, they're great and all, but only capable of so much. Machines, in my opinion, are far more useful when it comes to ruling the galaxy.