How do you view sith lords?

[mattig89ch]

I've always veiwed them as the one's that explored the Taboo's of the force.

 

The one thing I never agreed with them though is not trying to increase their numbers.

 

But thats just me.

[Chevron 7 locke]

That's an interesting view, So...you don't see them as evil, you simply see them as jedi who explore the darkside?

[mattig89ch]

pretty much.

 

I just don't agree with their idea that they must kill each other to remain strong. They should all train apprentices to get their numbers up that way they can be a threat to the Jedi.

[Chevron 7 locke]

Look at the way that usally turns out. The Jedi always defeat the sith when the sith are in large numbers, the jedi are bend on destroying the sith and whenever the sith amass in large numbers, the jedi swoop down and destroy them.

 

The only way the sith can remain a threat to the jedi is to remain shrouded in secrecy, that is the true way of the sith: to strike from the shadows

[mattig89ch]

Like cowards. I would rather face my enemies, then stab them in the back.

[Chevron 7 locke]

I see...you have to realize that if you were a sith and you did that, that you would die. The Jedi code always encourages people to think before acting, the sith code seems to tell you to simply attack your enemies with no plan whatsoever

[CommanderQ]

Well, a bit off the subject you guys are on, but Sith, nonetheless. I think the obvious reason for the Sith not expanding from their TWO rule, was because when you have a thousand people who have all been trained in the ways of hate and anger and betrayal, alliances don't do very well. In the end, everyone kills eachother and the Jedi didn't have to do a thing. Hence, only two there are.

[Chevron 7 locke]

CQ's got a point. that's the main reason the sith keep failing to destroy the jedi when they have armies and everything, certain groups will turn on one another, but the jedi usally have to be the ones who set the betrayels in motion

[GarfieldJL]

The Sith appear to be selfish ego-maniacs.

 

 

The Jedi tend to try to do their best to be selfless and they often have an arrogance problem.

 

The Jedi are the good guys, but it isn't that hard to lose yourself and become a Sith.

 

The Sith are those that have finally been corrupted by the power and refuse to take responsibility that goes with that power.

[Adavardes]

The Jedi are the good guys,

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Yes, the Jedi to strive to be a force for goodness and decency in the galaxy, but they are not, inheritly, good. The problem with defining them as the "good guys" is assuming that their philosophies, or even the philosophy for goodness, is the ultimate constructive method of thinking. To me, there is no such thing, simply due to the fact that, though there are some that wish it to be otherwise, individuals have different ways of viewing the world, different ways of thinking, and different interpretations of ethics or morality. Due to this fact, there can be no true absolutes, simply because human ideas are essentially flawed, because they come from human minds, and morality is, I'm sorry, a human concept.

 

I won't get into my opinions on morality any further. This isn't the place for that kind of discussion. Suffice to say that I believe the Jedi mean well, but they are not what they wish to be, as it cannot be possible. Add to that factor that they handle their methods incorrectly, with too much constriction, and you begin to see how it leads up to instability and conflict with the Sith, most of which are fallen Jedi.

[RC-1183]

i think that Sith Lords are no worse than a Jedi Master....depending on your point of view

[vanir]

Of course you realise Adavardes (Andvari, Alberich) is subject to be turned to stone upon exposure to sunlight, as all dwarves...

 

Kidding. You seem to have a very neutral view of the Jedi. An outlook. A Grey perspective.

 

Certainly a predator is not evil. But should one perhaps ask its prey? I believe the intention of the Jedi were as guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. The failings of individuals are however well known, as are political movements based in alterior philosophies, that peace and justice ought to be dictated and lied about.

 

The Star Wars universe is a simplistic theatre, and in simple terms the Jedi are the good guys, even where political representation is not.

[RC-1183]

actually the more EU content i get into the more i feel the Jedi are the bad guys seems kinda weird but then again it might just be me im not sure

[Chevron 7 locke]

Its not just you. I think the jedi are even worse then the sith because they give the illusion of freedom. they say that they are there to protect the republic, but i just don't believe that after the kinds of thing i read about in the EU, look at Jorus C'baoth, that guy felt that the jedi had every right to take force sensetive kids away from their families, and i'm not talking about the clone; i'm talking about that jedi master on outbound flight. He was simply the first of the jedi who thought that way

[True_Avery]

actually the more EU content i get into the more i feel the Jedi are the bad guys seems kinda weird but then again it might just be me im not sure

The EU tries to paint them as humans.

 

Are humans perfect? No. Are we inherently "good" or "bad"? No.

 

The Jedi are people. Their philosophy is a religion as much as the Sith's is, and both can have their good and bad tendencies depending on who you ask.

 

The Force, however, is drawn into 2 categories: Neutral and "Corrupt". The darker side of the Force is corrupting, and will devour the minds of those that use it down to their most basic of survival needs. This is fact within every part of Star Wars, and thus this can be defined as the "evil" side regarding life that wills to use it. It may not -be- evil, but it may as well be the worst taboo for what it does to someone.

 

Sort of a like a Drug. Doing Meth will kill you, because our bodies can't take prolonged use well. It'll shorten your life, f up your mind, etc.

 

So, is Meth "evil"? Meth is a drug. An object. It has no mind, and no morals to work off of to act in a lifelike manner. It just is. Like every inanimate object and force within the universe, it just is there due to something working upon it.

 

But, people can use it in the same way they can use a gun. Is a gun evil? A gun cannot shoot people until the trigger is pulled by another person (in general). So, doesn't it really fall on the people?

 

But, unlike a gun that can be used for "good", all Meth does is help you escape reality and kill you. It may give you that high and make you feel like the king of the world, but its an illusion of power.

 

Now, while the Dark Side's power is no illusion, the thought of control is. You'll use it until it either kills you, devours you, or you turn away from it. People simply cannot handle whatever kind of power it is, and it destroys them.

 

Now, if you want to listed to the Jedi, the Dark Side actually hurts the Force. Take that as you will, but thats the G-Canon you're working against.

 

Just look at it like a Drug. It'll be great for awhile, but soon you'll rely on it and it'll take your life and the lives of those around you down the hole regardless of if you feel it happening or not. It may be an object incapable of being identified morally, but what it does is not a matter of subjective opinion.

 

However, if you like that sort of thing go ahead. Its just important to look at the facts before you say "The Force and the Dark Side are pretty much the same."

[Chevron 7 locke]

Thats an...intersting view on this. but i don't agree with the "the thought of control is" part of it

[RC-1183]

well that was.... nice but what i meant was that the Jedi supposedly stood up for what is "right" and the were the "peacekeepers" so to speak but their view of "right" have drifted over the centeries thats one reason that they couldnt sense Sidious so close because they haave strayed so far off the path of rightousness that their "vision" was to clouded to see what was right in front of them.

 

And also how is taking babies that have no choice just because they have medi-chlorians in their blood "right" it is not.

 

Is comanding a Slave army "right" NO.

[Chevron 7 locke]

It's the choice of the parents to give up their kids to the jedi at a young age, Jorus C'Baoth disregarded that rule and took them for himself, i didn't say taking the kids wasnt right, i meant that Jorus C'baoth seemed to represent the newest breed of jedi

[Darth_Yuthura]

In regards to what True_Avery said about guns,

 

Guns, or any weapon for that matter, are only capable of destruction. That is their only purpose. Yes, it's better that law enforcement by capable to defending themselves or the innocent by killing or intimidating people who are deemed threats. Many people are under the impression that the best defense is a good offense... that's absolutely wrong.

 

A gun may not be the danger, but the person who wields the weapon wouldn't be as dangerous if he could not easily obtain one. There is NOTHING that amounts to the building of atomic weapons, yet they continue to be built.

 

I wrote a piece that actually addressed the fact that the Jedi's symbol, the lightsaber, contradicts everything they are supposed to stand for. The idea should not be so much to fight weapons with weapons, but to convince people not to want to hurt each other.

 

This is really unrealistic, but the best way to fight a disease is prevention, not better medical coverage. The best way to survive an accident is to avoid getting into one. The best way for the Jedi to achieve their goals is through diplomacy... too boring, I assume that would be w/out the lightsabers.

 

Edit:

i think that Sith Lords are no worse than a Jedi Master....depending on your point of view

 

Definitely, I would agree. For instance, look at Masters Vrook and Atris... so-called great Jedi who were corrupted when they became Council members. They essentially came to believe themselves perfect and acted accordingly. The moment they believed themselves divine, they stopped being Jedi.

 

"Do not fill your head with visions of glory and power." An interesting statement from one who had lots of each. There really is no difference between a Sith Lord and the High Council apart from the number who have control. Each had the power to use whatever authority they had with no regard for their followers.

 

I would go so far as to say that there really is no dark or lightside at all. It all depends on who wields the power. Anger is a destructive emotion, but it often is the counteraction to injustice or persecution. Just as bad is how peace could lead to inaction when a wrong is done. If you don't react to an injustice, it gives the criminal the belief that there are no consequences. It all comes to a person's perception.

[Chevron 7 locke]

How was Vrook corrupted? Vrook wasn't corrupted, he was just grouchy all the time, and I beg to differ on the There is no lightside or darkside point, there has to be two sides of the force to achive balance.

[vanir]

How about this. I'm alone and hungry on a hostile world and I come across a Jedi Knight. I can be pretty sure so long as I determine myself to be of genuinely good character to any commonly celebrated perspective, he's not going to torture and kill me for kicks.

Now you just can't say that about a Sith.

 

It's easy. Sith bad. Jedi good. That's what I'm thinking when I run into that feller under terrible/victimised conditions. Simple.

 

So here's the big hint for you: anger, fear, aggression are the path to the Dark Side. So say somebody is willingly giving themselves over to the Dark Side, obviously there's a tad more involved than taking philosophical exception. Mid conversation he might hack you to bits and have a laugh about it. Maybe you just weren't enough of a survivor to see it coming, and shouldn't have been there, so it was your fault. See a pattern here?

 

Look at Anakin on Mustafar. The woman he loves, yet he is scared of what Obi Wan's presence represents. His friend can be one no more, nothing can change that. He is Sith, he must be aware of this. He responds with rage, frustration, to this lonely fear, attacks his wife and then forces his best friend to fight to the death. This is not somebody I'd have working in childcare.

[Ultimate Vader]

Actually if I were you I won't use Anakin as an example. Hell, he's no Sith right after he kill Mace Windu? He doesn't even know the dark side at all. He's just insane and confused at that time. And it's clear that he's not a good Jedi. He's strong, but his personality and actions aren't like the Jedi Code.

 

Jedi and Sith are factions. They have their own ways to use the force. Jedi have the way of the lightside, Sith have the darkside way. Jedi believe The force guide them in their actions, Sith believe they control the force. So the point is, the force is not divided into two.

 

Many Jedi fall to the dark side, corrupted, arrogant because of their own code. It's clear that their code teach them to be "a holy person". In fact, no one is perfect. And I don't agree with the concept of Vaapad. Its pattern is "use the dark to save the light". Please. How can someone be a good person if he use anger? That sucks. See Windu in Episode Three? See how arrogant he is when he talks. That's why Anakin doesn't like Windu ever since he entered the Jedi Order. See Episode One. Windu stares at Anakin. Anakin shows an ill feel to Windu, and even more in Episode Three. Same thing with Revan. But fortunately he has a noble reason to do that. That's why people like him. The developer was very lucky. In other cases, that pattern will sucks big time. Trust me. For example, Caedus.

 

Well, since many people have told us about the Sith, I don't think I have to explain about it again. Some learn only the dark side, others learn both sides. And people who studied both sides is the better Sith. Why? Because they use their mind to harness their unnatural powers. The greatest example here is Palpatine. I assume everybody here know Sidious, so I think I don't have to explain about Sidious.

 

I agree with Darth_Yuthura on this.

[Darth_Yuthura]

Appreciate it.

 

I view the more negative emotions differently because they do serve a purpose. Think of injustice like a disease and the anger it spawns as the means to fight it off. You cannot heal an ailment if your body doesn't eradicate the infected cells, or it will spread indefinitely. The same could go for a civilization. If murder is not punished so severely, anyone could kill you at any time and I don't think you would like that kind of existence. When people commit war crimes, genocide, all the way down to speeding, they have to be punished, or they will continue doing it.

 

In Star Wars, the Council did not recognize that the Mandalorians had to be stopped, but they abused the authority entrusted to them and went by what they wanted, despite what their followers believed. In the end, because they put their faith in peace, the Mandalorians went unopposed and it ultimately damaged the relationship between them and the rest of the Order. They seemed to have a totalitarian level of authority over the entire Jedi Order if they assumed their rule was absolute.

 

To Chevron 7 Locke: This is the reason why I say Vrook was corrupted. He refused to listen to his followers despite everything that happened since the Mandalorian Wars. He spoke once that he claimed responsibility, but in reality, he really never did anything, but shift blame away from himself and the Council.

 

I think that there comes a point when arrogance IS enough to be 'corrupted.' The Sith go by 'the strongest rules and the weak either perish or follow.' How is Vrook any different from that?

[Chevron 7 locke]

Vrook served the jedi to the last, he followed the jedi code for all of the time that i knew him and he died as a jedi, a sith would have fought his death but vrook did not

[TKA-001]

To be fair, Vrook didn't have a chance to fight back, and I don't see why any of the Jedi would have drawn their sabers if they didn't expect a fight. That aside, I think Vrook's sorely underrated.