[wip] ZimmMaster's WIP's

[ZimmMaster]

Current Projects:

 

Ultimate Saber Mod (TSLPatcher Version)- I am remaking the USM to install with the TSLPatcher to resolve compatability issues with many mods out there. A few examples would be, the Final Touch my by oddflash, the TSLRCM, the TSLRP by Team Gizka (if its ever released). This version will install with the TSLPatcher and include the major fixes, it will make changes to the 2da, and dlg files. It will also recompile the scripts with the Random Loot Fix included. So no more having to manually edit the files in the USM to make them compatable. Permission to host is pending.

 

UPDATE: I was unable to gain permission to host a whole new USM. So I went to my backup plan. I will release the patcher and tslpatchdata folder with the changes.ini file, info.rtf file, usm source scripts which are allowed to be used without contacting the team and un-modded dlg and 2da files that are used in the USM in a zip archive. In order for the patcher to work you will have to download the USM on KotOR Files. In the archive there is a folder called "Override" (without the quotes). Open this folder and delete all .ncs files. To do this quickly, open the USM override folder and open your searcher (Windows Key + F) and click search all files or folders and then if neccesary browse to the USM override folder and then in the all or part of filename text box type ".ncs" (without the quotes). Hit delete and then navigate back to the USM's override select all then copy and paste the files into the tslpatchdata folder DO NOT overwrite ANY files when asked. Then run the patcher.

 

UPDATE 2: Mod release postponed till permission issues resolved.

 

<snip> Mod Project Canceled.

[Canderis]

the TSLCR by Team Hssiss,

 

Thats not by us. That is by DarthStorny and zbyl

[ZimmMaster]

Crap, I got the name wrong again!

[Lord of Hunger]

And it's TSLRCM.

 

TSLCR is a mod by Pikmin who is associated with neither Stoney and Zbyl or Team Hssiss in ANY way at all.

[Canderis]

Pikmin

Baylor

[Lord of Hunger]

Balor, Pikmin...just a different way of saying the same thing?

[Exile007]

Balor, Pikmin...just a different way of saying the same thing?

 

You are using a Synonym.

 

And as for the topic: it's nice to see older mods being re-released with ez-compatibility. It's not a problem for me since I can usually make mods compatible without too much trouble (half the reason I download these things is to pick them apart anyway ), but I'm sure it will be of great use to KotORfilers.

[jonathan7]

Permission publicly given by shem.

 

Where?

[ZimmMaster]

And it's TSLRCM.

 

TSLCR is a mod by Pikmin who is associated with neither Stoney and Zbyl or Team Hssiss in ANY way at all.

 

Still got the name wrong! Thanks for the clarification.

 

Where?

 

On the kotor files page for the ultimate sound mod. Near the bottom of the readme file it says you may use this mod however you like I just ask that I get credit in the readme. Or something like that.

 

UPDATE: I just got a reply from T7, saying my backup plan is legal. He would actually like to test it. So once it is done, I'll send it to T7 and see what he thinks. I think I'm actually on the last file to manufacture modifiers for.

[jonathan7]

On the kotor files page for the ultimate sound mod. Near the bottom of the readme file it says you may use this mod however you like I just ask that I get credit in the readme. Or something like that.

 

This isn't what Shem meant though; he meant inclusion in a much larger mod. All you have done is to put his mod and his work into TSL patcher, which takes about 2 minutes... You will have to forgive me, but all this comes across as is an attempt to take credit for all Shem's hard work.

[ZimmMaster]

This isn't what Shem meant though; he meant inclusion in a much larger mod. All you have done is to put his mod and his work into TSL patcher, which takes about 2 minutes... You will have to forgive me, but all this comes across as is an attempt to take credit for all Shem's hard work.

 

I did say all credit goes to Shem for the creation of the mod. I just take credit for making it install with the TSLPatcher. But if you want me to ask shem for permission, I will.

[jonathan7]

I did say all credit goes to Shem for the creation of the mod. I just take credit for making it install with the TSLPatcher. But if you want me to ask shem for permission, I will.

 

You can ask for permission, but I already know the answer will be no, I've already discussed the matter with Shem.

 

If your just going to take a modders work, and put it in TSLpatcher, regardless of what the permissions say, if you want the mod hosted at KotOR Files you will have to get the expressed permission of the original mod maker that you are allowed to do that for it to be allowed on site.

[ZimmMaster]

You can ask for permission, but I already know the answer will be no, I've already discussed the matter with Shem.

 

If your just going to take a modders work, and put it in TSLpatcher, regardless of what the permissions say, if you want the mod hosted at KotOR Files you will have to get the expressed permission of the original mod maker that you are allowed to do that.

 

I'm sorry, I did not know. But I can still go with my backup plan. I can do the same thing with this as I did the USM; release the patcher and the tslpachtdata folder with un-modded copies of the baseitems and spells.2da files with the changes.ini and info.rtf files. So now there will be no permission issues as technically I'm not releasing the mod all over again, just the patcher with instructions saying to copy all the sound files included in the mod's zip archive to the tslpatchdata folder. So no permission issues there. Do I still need to ask for permission even though the only thing being hosted is stuff made by me?

[Robespierre]

UPDATE: I was unable to gain permission to host a whole new USM. So I went to my backup plan. I will release the patcher and tslpatchdata folder with the changes.ini file, info.rtf file, usm source scripts which are allowed to be used without contacting the team and un-modded dlg and 2da files that are used in the USM in a zip archive. In order for the patcher to work you will have to download the USM on KotOR Files. In the archive there is a folder called "Override" (without the quotes). Open this folder and delete all .ncs files. To do this quickly, open the USM override folder and open your searcher (Windows Key + F) and click search all files or folders and then if neccesary browse to the USM override folder and then in the all or part of filename text box type ".ncs" (without the quotes). Hit delete and then navigate back to the USM's override select all then copy and paste the files into the tslpatchdata folder DO NOT overwrite ANY files when asked. Then run the patcher.

 

Did you try to contact all the members? I was interested in making another patch to fix some of the grammatical errors and also fix the compatibility.

[Darth InSidious]

As a matter of record and for future reference, we expect you to gain permission before you start work on modifying someone else's mod; not only is it prudent, it'd damned rude to publish it and then turn round to the original mod maker and say "Oh, by the way, can I have permission?"

 

This includes creating an easy-install option/mod using TSLPatcher or otherwise, and while there hasn't been a policy on this up until now at KotORFiles, as vice-admin I'm setting one: If you are going to create one of these you must obtain the permission of the original mod author or authors to do so. Otherwise it will be treated much the same as if you had used their mod in another or uploaded it without permission.

 

This is about following the spirit rather than the letter of the law. The point is to show some respect for your fellow modders, not to create a framework you can skirt around when you feel like it.

[ZimmMaster]

Did you try to contact all the members? I was interested in making another patch to fix some of the grammatical errors and also fix the compatibility.

 

I first contacted T7nowhere with what I was wanting to do. He said no. As he would have to contact all the members of the USM team. So then I asked about my backup plan. His reply to me presenting my backup plan is below. I'm also integrating the critical updates for the usm in this too.

 

Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me.

 

Are you going to be willing to support anyone that has trouble using the patcher to install USM?

 

BTW, I do appreciate the effort as I'm sure the community will. When you have the patcher ready i would like to take it for a spin.

 

Cool.

 

 

-T7

 

As a matter of record and for future reference, we expect you to gain permission before you start work on modifying someone else's mod; not only is it prudent, it'd damned rude to publish it and then turn round to the original mod maker and say "Oh, by the way, can I have permission?"

 

This includes creating an easy-install option/mod using TSLPatcher or otherwise, and while there hasn't been a policy on this up until now at KotORFiles, as vice-admin I'm setting one: If you are going to create one of these you must obtain the permission of the original mod author or authors to do so. Otherwise it will be treated much the same as if you had used their mod in another or uploaded it without permission.

 

This is about following the spirit rather than the letter of the law. The point is to show some respect for your fellow modders, not to create a framework you can skirt around when you feel like it.

 

I NEVER publish my mods that I make until AFTER permission issues are resolved even though I usually already have them made for use by me. I learned this last year and what can happen if you don't. I have like fifteen really good mods of mine that I have not released to the public. Like my Dual Colored Double Sabers for TSL. Like one side emit a blue and the other a red blade. My version 3 of my Items of Revan which I've modified SS' Revan Fix and integrated into the game. My KOTOR I Mullet Head for TSL. I was not sure if I should release that or not 'cause it might be considered porting even though OE used that head in the KOTOR II trailer. The reason I ask after the mod is made is because several of my attempts at projects like this failed miserably. The idea of hosting it comes after if I think it is a really good mod. In the case of the USM mod, I was already making it for personal use a week ago when I thought about hosting it a few days later as it was turning out real good. Which is when I asked T7. Later which I posted the WIP thread. I had not actually started those mods yesterday. I had been working on them for a while before. I just posted the order of developments in the way they happened.

[Lord of Hunger]

In any event, it is clear that ZimmMaster has permission from T7 for his alternative USM solution. As for the Ultimate Sound Mod problem, it sounds like he accidentally misinterpreted something. And note that he has published NOTHING yet, he's just been announcing his plans and asking for permission to pursue them.

 

And btw, it's TSLRCM, not TSLCRM.

[Darth InSidious]

In any event, it is clear that ZimmMaster has permission from T7 for his alternative USM solution.

 

The USM readme (Section VII: Terms of Use) states that the team must give written assent. Whether T7 has given his permission on condition of the other members or in their name is something that needs clarifying, IMO.

[jonathan7]

I NEVER publish my mods that I make until AFTER permission issues are resolved even though I usually already have them made for use by me.

 

As for the Ultimate Sound Mod problem, it sounds like he accidentally misinterpreted something. And note that he has published NOTHING yet, he's just been announcing his plans and asking for permission to pursue them.

 

KotOR Files upload system begs to differ on this point....

[Lord of Hunger]

*brings up USM readme (Section VII: Terms of Use)*

 

"You may alter the contents of this mod in anyway you see fit for your personal use only."

 

Technically this doesn't alter anything about USM until it goes into the personal use only realm. None of the .2das or .dlgs are modified until they are merged with the existing .2das and .dlgs in someone's override.

 

"This mod may not be re-upload to any other website besides LucasFiles.com and pcgamesmods.com unless...."

 

This mod does not contain any USM files so it is not uploading USM to any website without the Team's consent.

 

Now granted there is the spirit of the law as you said. I respect that, I really do. But the fact that at least one of the Team Members, T7, is okay with this has significance too. And given that the original Team is not that active nowadays, it's very hard to even ask for permission.

 

Anyway, I guess I just feel like defending a mod I'm not even affiliated with. I do think that this could be one of the best modding resources ever since it will help reduce the incompatibility issue of USM.

KotOR Files upload system begs to differ on this point....

From what I can tell he was operating under a faulty assumption.

 

In any event, I'll let ZimmMaster continue to make his case for these mods. Just though I'd offer some arguments of my own (and I can easily argue either way ).

[ZimmMaster]

I've contacted T7 for some help and clarification. I also brought up some of the issues posted here. He'll hopefully get back to me soon or he may post here. I just hope I can host it. As for the Sound Mod issues, the mod is still "pending approval" on KotOR Files and I asked Shem for some clarification in a visitor message on his profile. I'll post here with more updates as I get them.

 

*EDIT* I think it would be easier to see what is being done with Ultimate Sound Mod than for me to tell what's being done. I hope it clarifies what I'm wanting to do.

 

<snipped link>

 

*EDIT* Sorry. Just trying to make things a little easier with a visual aid.

[Shem]

Was tired of all the compatability issues. So I remade it to install with the TSLPatcher and have it make neccessary modifications to the .2da files and copy others. Permission publicly given by shem.

First you say this...

 

UPDATE 2: Mod release postponed till permission issues are resolved.

Then you say that.

 

I have a problem with lying. You said I gave you permission which I didn't. That ticks me off. Then you ask me for permission. That's a problem. You should have asked me first. Besides, I can do the TSL Patcher myself if I choose to do so. But back then I hadn't learned it when I released the mod.

 

Whether or not I decide to do it is irrelevant. You went too far and that was totally disrespectful. To boldly claim I gave you permission. Did you really think that was going to work? You have to think ahead and you failed to do so. It was like you wanted to upload my mod under your name with a slight update and the glory would be yours. That's not cool.

[ZimmMaster]

First you say this...

 

Then you say that.

 

I have a problem with lying. You said I gave you permission which I didn't. That ticks me off. Then you ask me for permission. That's a problem. You should have asked me first. Besides, I can do the TSL Patcher myself if I choose to do so. But back then I hadn't learned it when I released the mod.

 

Whether or not I decide to do it is irrelevant. You went too far and that was totally disrespectful. To boldly claim I gave you permission. Did you really think that was going to work? You have to think ahead and you failed to do so. It was like you wanted to upload my mod under your name with a slight update and the glory would be yours. That's not cool.

 

That was a simple misunderstanding. I did not know doing this would require permission even though the readme says it may be used in another mod as long as credit is given, which I did till a few days later. I quote your readme.

 

Terms of Use: If you want to use the work I have done in a future mod, just please give me credit for what you used.

 

Also, I did not say you gave me permission. I said "permission publicly given". Which I was indicating by the readme file section of the mod page on KotOR Files. Plus, I meant no disrespect and I do NOT make mods for "all the glory". I make them for the community's benefit and enjoyment. Just having my mod accepted is enough for me. All the compliments and popularity of the mod is just a bonus. Also, in my visitor message asking for permission, I said;

NOTE: This will not contain files from your sound mod unless you say it is okay. It will include the patcher, your readme for the sound mod in a folder called Origional Readme, my readme for the patcher, tslpatchdata folder, and inside the folder will be the changes.ini files, info.rtf files, and un-modded copies of the 2da's used in the mod.

The rest of the message stated what would be included. All the files, with the exception of the TSLPatcher itself, were made by me.

 

As to my posting "Mod release postponed will permission issues are resolved", I thought I had permission as was stated in your readme when I first submitted the mod. But then after I made the WIP thread a couple days after the submission, DarthInsidious made a rule which he posted here that I still need to ask permission for mods like this regardless of the readme saying I can modify it or not this morning. Is this sufficient clarification?

 

I can't believe all this trouble over a simple missunderstanding. If you don't want me releasing Shem's mod all over again, I can just release the patcher without Shem's mod inside.

[jonathan7]

I can't believe all this trouble over a simple missunderstanding. If you don't want me releasing Shem's mod all over again, I can just release the patcher without Shem's mod inside.

 

How about you don't release anything that relates at all to Shem's work. She is more than capable of deciding if he releases the USM with TSL patcher or not. However lets see if I can completely eliminate the misunderstanding.

 

Shem's readme;

 

If you want to use the work I have done in a future mod, just please give me credit for what you used.

 

What this explicitly means is that you use his mod in your own mod... For example lets say SilverEdge9 wanted to include it in BoS then he could. Putting Shems USM mod in TSLpatcher is not making a mod, it is not doing any work of your own what so ever - it would of taken me less than a minute to put Shems USM in TSLpatcher. Indeed I'm happy to do that, email it to Shem, and let him upload that to KotOR Files under his own name to end this furore.

 

Putting someone elses mod in TSL patcher does not count as a modification, you haven't done anything yourself to change the game, it goes completely against the spirit of which Shem had said the above in his readme. Indeed your behaviour is why I explicitly state that my own work has to have my permission given, otherwise if I gave it in a readme, that trust could be abused; which is exactly what you have done by doing what you have done. I cannot within the realms of forum rules say anything else with regards this matter.

 

My primary job here is to enforce the rules, and keep the peace. As such my behaviour has to set the example with regards obedience to the Forum rules, and setting the level of decorum appropriate for the forum. Do rest assured I am not in any way either amused by your conduct or very enamoured by your behaviour; I think you have acted in a wholly ungraceful manner which is the antipathy of which mod makers would like to relate to one another, Good day sir.

[T7nowhere]

There are some good points brought up in this thread an I don't want to distract from someones work.

 

I personally don't have a problem with someone making an installer for one of my mods that probably does need one with all the mods that have come out since.

 

As I have said in my Emails Zimmerman I want to see the end result and test the installer myself, but I also mentioned that i need to contact the other members of the team.

 

However seeing as what your releasing will not contain any actual content from USM I don't see that there would be a problem.

 

The whole point is to allow people to enjoy the mods without their games being messed up.

 

If there is something else I'm missing I would appreciate being PM'd personally.