US Health Care Reform

[mimartin]

Well, you're already paying for those without insurance through your state taxes.

True, but that is not the only place you are paying for the uninsured and the underinsured. Health care providers pad the bill of the insured to make up for the losses suffered by the uninsured and those that an insurance provider denies the full cost of a procedure. So you are paying for those without insurance or those without adequate insurance when you pay your health care premiums and even your auto premiums.

 

Those are really the most oblivious, truth be told you are paying for the uninsured every time you make a purchase. If any company in the distribution or manufacturing is American and provides health care insurance to their employees then they are passing that expense on to the consumer. Thus they are also passing along the expense handed to them by padded bills.

[Totenkopf]

If any company in the distribution or manufacturing is American and provides health care insurance to their employees then they are passing that expense on to the consumer. Thus they are also passing along the expense handed to them by padded bills.

 

All costs are ultimately born by the consumer, whether they be services or taxes. You can't trust initial cost analysis projections when it comes to the govt (probably the private sector too in cases). Any new entitlement assumed by the govt will ultimately prove much more expensive than its proponents claim. So, we may need to have the system refined, but throwing the baby out with the bath water ain't a solution. The plans currently being fashioned by the dems in Congress and the WH have already been labeld by the nonpartisan CBO as too expensive.

[mimartin]

But you can trust corporate CEOs. Yea, I never heard of any of them getting into any trouble.

[Totenkopf]

As if politicians were any more trustworthy.

[Tommycat]

But you can trust corporate CEOs. Yea, I never heard of any of them getting into any trouble.

 

I think I would trust a CEO more than a politician. CEO does something wrong, he can face jail time... Politician does something wrong, it's a new LAW

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWwyjwmYMEs hi i'm from the best state in the country how is it in the crap states

[Jae Onasi]

Here's a link to Obama's site on health care:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/index.php

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/

 

Here's what CNN money thinks of it:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/

 

Note that this article is commenting on what Congress has put on the table, not what Obama wants put on the table--the difference may not be much, but I think it's a distinction to note.

 

I did notice this article

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/20/news/economy/health_care_reform_middle_class.fortune/index.htm where it says I could pay over 4k/year for health insurance. Guess what? I already do pay a lot in insurance premiums every paycheck.

 

There's been talk about the rush to get health care passed. Then I heard a radio report where they talked about Sen. Kennedy sending a letter to the MA governor asking if the legislature would consider changing the law about how Senators are chosen should one be able to continue in office (from an election to having the governor choose one--not a wise choice in my opinion, but I understand why Sen. Kennedy wants that from a political standpoint). It occurred to me that the rush might be as simple as the Senate wanting to get it done in time for Sen. Kennedy to see the bill signed before he dies. I think that's not a good reason to rush, even if I understand the sentiment.

[mimartin]

As if politicians were any more trustworthy.

Some politicians are very trustworthy, some are not. Same goes for CEOs. Never said one was worse than the other. Saying they all are evil is disingenuous.

[Totenkopf]

No, you didn't actually SAY that. You implied, however, that somehow CEOs were less trustworthy than politicians/govt. Since I didn't actually claim that CEOs were morally superior or even that all politicians were evil, your comment seemed odd. I concur that saying all were evil across the board would be disingenuous, perhaps even paranoid. I don't believe, however, that giving the govt ever more authority over our lives is a smart thing. So, apparently, do most Americans judging by the current response to the healthscare process.

 

@Jae--I agree. Rushing a bill to make TK "happy" is not a good idea.

[mimartin]

You implied, however, that somehow CEOs were less trustworthy than politicians/govt.

No, I implied that CEOs were just as trustworthy/untrustworthy as politicians.

 

I believe it is the individual that is either trustworthy or untrustworthy and not the occupation. Labeling everyone within a given occupation and/or political party as corrupt is incorrect despite what O’Reilly or Rush say.

 

I’ve only meet 2 CEO within the insurance industry. I’d say I trust one and the other not so much. I know two politicians. One was thrown out of office for corruption and the other is still there. Despite my differences in political opinion and my questioning his intelligence in political matters, I do trust Ron Paul does what he believes is best interest of the American people. So, I guess politicians are 50/50 too.

[Samuel Dravis]

I knew someone who was on the state insurance board in another state. He related a story he'd heard from a VP of an insurance company (from a different state, or he would have had to report this company to the Attorney General for fraud). Insurance companies reject all claims with incomplete information, information in the wrong boxes, wrong codes, wrong diagnoses for the treatment codes, etc. Well, this insurance took all the claims that should have been paid ("clean claims") and just randomly didn't pay 50% of them to see how many people would resubmit the claim. Only 20% of people did. The company made a lot of money that day committing fraud. There definitely needs to be more accountability for insurance companies, and streamlined claims filing so that the companies can't abuse it creating so much paperwork it's almost not worth it to file the claim in the first place.

I read an article yesterday about this. It's somewhat long but pretty disturbing.

[Web Rider]

For starters we can all start eating better and exercising more, and shoving fewer pills down our throats....and work now, more to come later.

[Totenkopf]

.....So, I guess politicians are 50/50 too.

 

That sounds soooo grudging an admission.

[Jae Onasi]

I read an article yesterday about this. It's somewhat long but pretty disturbing.

 

Unfortunately, this doesn't surprise me.

[sarpedon2]

Umm can an offer an foreigners opinion on the US health care reforms? Universal Health Care is an important option for your country to have along with Private Health Care. As a British citizen, i was fuming every time I saw ignorant or easily led people ranting on tv how bad the NHS is and how socialism is evil. Now the NHS has saved my life or improved it on a number occasions. Firstly when i was born, my family was nearly poor. Thatchers government had nearly crippled every working class worker. We had money, but not much. When I born, I was born with one lung not properly inflated. 2 days old and I developed pneumonia. I would have died without the care of the NHS, which was built by people who cared for people, not money. Had my family been on private health care, we would have been driven into poverty by health care bills. Also throughout my life, I have been constantly in need of inhalers for my chest infections and asthma. It only costs £6.25 prescription charge. You can have hundreds of pills bought here at the same time, and it would be the same price. How much is it to buy stuff like that over on your side?

 

Now what annoys most about the people who are on TV mocking universal health care, is that they are people who can afford the health care over there. There is an estimated 50 million people in America uninsured. They can't afford the current health care and with a economic recession on, people will be in even worse poverty. So should nearly 1/4 of the population should be left to die? I don't understand America's health care that well, but this is do know. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), America is currently 37th in the world with their health care, we are 18th. France; one of the largest socialist countries in the western world, is 1st.

 

Some of you probably won't agree with my view, hopefully some will. But if you have sympathy for your fellow citizens who are is far worse state of health than you might be, then accept that Universal Health Care might be a more better and more humane approach to treating them then forcing them to have health care they can't afford.

[Totenkopf]

One of the biggest problems people in this country have re the helathcare debate is wrapping their heads around the actual number of people who can't get coverage. The ~50 million figure has been proven false (much like claims about the number homeless and the prevelance of AIDS, etc..). When you strip away all the people who don't buy insurance they could afford, as well as the number of illegals, the number drops to <1/4 of the 50+/- that gets bandied about. That's why reinventing the wheel makes no sense. Fix the system, not replace it with a whole new one that has its own set of problems.

[mimartin]

Well let’s see about adding some of those back.

 

How many American’s have health insurance, but are what can be described as underinsured? What I mean is they pay for major medical coverage, but has nothing for Vision or Dental? How many have a huge deducible and co-pay in order to afford the coverage?

 

I have no clue, but I will answer that I meet the criteria on all counts. So does a few people in L.A. as I posted in another thread.

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

[Totenkopf]

Well let’s see about adding some of those back.

 

Which ones? The interesting thing about discussions like these is that it shows the divide between dems/reps/indep and lib/con is usually not over the existence of a problem but the solutions. I find it interesting that people who accuse the govt of wasteful spending on the military and other things seems to think this same group of people are going to manage something as massive as healthcare in a fair and efficient manner. The current state of SS as well as Medicare/caid programs demonstrate that govt pretty much sucks at running things. The private sector has it's share of thieves and incompetents, to be sure, but I'd rather deal with knaves that can be corralled by govt than a govt that condescends to think we work for it.

[mimartin]

I just know it is not being managed efficiently and it certainly isn’t being managed fairly now. I don’t know if the government could do it better, but I have enough pride in my country to think if Europe, Australia and Canada can do it, so can we.

 

My suggestion is if they want to keep health care private, then they should standardize coverage and claims forms through regulation. That way doctors do not have to call the insurance company to know if something is covered or not. By standardize claims forms and requirements it would save doctors time and money in having to fill out different forms and have different requirements for each company. Really regulate health insurance, the companies will of course balk at this, but it is time for the doctors to focus on the patience’s health and not the insurance companies. The Property and Causality companies pretty much have to deal with these types of regulations now.

[Totenkopf]

My suggestion is if they want to keep health care private, then they should standardize coverage and claims forms through regulation. That way doctors do not have to call the insurance company to know if something is covered or not. By standardize claims forms and requirements it would save doctors time and money in having to fill out different forms and have different requirements for each company. Really regulate health insurance, the companies will of course balk at this, but it is time for the doctors to focus on the patience’s health and not the insurance companies. The Property and Causality companies pretty much have to deal with these types of regulations now.

 

Greater streamlining of insurance practices would likely lead to better efficiencies due to the lack of an office needing several employees just to process med claims, as well as hopefully less confusion.

 

Well, we seem to agree on at least this much.

[mimartin]

Well, we seem to agree on at least this much.

Problem is the insurance companies would never agree to what I suggested. Most likely if implement they would voluntarily leave the market. Even having uniformed claims forms is a major stumbling block as it limits deniability.

 

and these are the people that claim they have the American peoples best interest at heart.

[Q]

^Um, don't you work for an insurance company?

 

Let's hope that none of your superiors sees this thread.

[mimartin]

I am an insurance agent, who is licensed to sell health insurance. I however will not sell anything I do not trust or that I would not buy myself. So I have not sold any health insurance for 3 or 4 years. I trust some of the companies to pay their claim and I trust some not to non-renew at the first sign of health problems. I do not trust any of them to do both.

[Q]

I hope that you didn't take that as an insult. I was complementing your honesty while acknowledging the irony.

[Totenkopf]

Problem is the insurance companies would never agree to what I suggested. Most likely if implement they would voluntarily leave the market. Even having uniformed claims forms is a major stumbling block as it limits deniability.

 

Well, streamlining of forms shouldn't be any big deal on an industry-wide basis. Merely a matter of everyone having to use the same types of coding for the same kinds of procedures. If by regulation you mean making the insurance companies cover everything (not sure how draconian your level of regulation would be), some probably would fall by the wayside, though I doubt the biggest players would disappear. Too much money to just walk away.

 

and these are the people that claim they have the American peoples best interest at heart.

 

Well, that makes them have something in common with the politicians that want to take their place.