newsfeed: Jedi Neri Discusses New Classes

[TKA-001]

I didn't know you had a script, can I see your copy?

...do I need to be able to produce a better idea in order to identify a bad one?

[Hallucination]

I'm just saying we don't seem to know too much of the story, so it's hard to judge it very well.

[RogueJedi86]

All we know of the Trooper story is that they're part of the Elite Omega Squadron for the Republic. It's VERY hard to second guess the game's stories at this point. Could you have predicted KotOR's story before it came out? No? Then how can you predict TOR's stories?

[Tommycat]

I'm disappointed in their decision to add 2 force users per side. I mean I would rather they had something like Sith Engineer/Republic Slicer as the last 2. Someone who would fight by alternate means. Setting traps, overloading consoles, disabling weapons.

 

Disappointed, but I'll still give it a shot. Who knows maybe I'll really dig it.

[Nedak]

Because making an MMO with obvious Tank, DPS, Healing, and Ranged classes is really original.

I was just making the point that they were obviously going for the Tank, Rogue, and DPS type of classes... So why not a healer?

 

Really, I am very confused as to why everyone wants to see a WoW clone in every MMO just with another face. You know what sucks about WoW? Defined classes. You tank, you heal, or you dps. If you play a class that players have determined are only good for that and you can't do that, you might as well not play the game. There's no originality there, there's nothing new, it's just the same old junk repeated over and over.

I don't like WoW, but you know what else I don't like? ICONIC ICONIC ICONIC. I'm so sick of hearing that word; it's become such a cliche. I don't want to be limited to all of those non-force sensitive classes...I don't want to be limited to either Jedi or a bunch of 'less epic' classes. I want original classes, not one class that is duplicated with slight modifications.

 

You people who complain about TOR not thinking outside the box because it doesn't have the "standard" classes, need to stop and re-read what you just said. How can you be "outside the box" when you don't want a single new feature in the game?

Wow you know me so well.

 

Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE) was/is my favorite MMO of all time, if that isn't thinking outside the box I don't know what is. And comparing SWTOR to that...It is EXTREMELY unoriginal.

 

Now I know, it's not fair to compare SWG and SWTOR, but how can you not? They are both Star Wars MMOs.

 

I didn't mind if there was going to be generic WoW modeled classes ("not minding" is the key point), I just wanted some diversity, because I don't want to be Force Sensitive!

 

Lastly, what new features are you talking about? The story and voiced features? Nothing they have released so far supports that they're brining anything "new" to the MMO genre, besides a linear story and some voiced combat options (which we've seen in most all Bioware RPGs).

 

Just because I can't think of alternatives doesn't BioWare can't. I would've never imagined Imperial Agent, but here it is. Any random guy could think of adding 2 more Force classes. BioWare could've given us something more creative, like how they shook up the "gun guy" archetype with classes like the Smuggler and Agent.

Really? You didn't guess that there would be a Spy class to counterpart the Smuggler Republic class? Gee...

[Darth Avlectus]

I would have liked to have known I could play a sentient droid or cyborg if I wanted to. Then I could call myself General Beavis.

 

In all actuality I'm not judging this before it's finally out of the box, but I'd hoped it would have focused on other classes. All you are going to have are Jedi and lightsabers. Not that this is bad, but I actually did like some of the older titles where you played an ordinary person thrust into an extraordinary situation instead of always being a fantastical lightsaber wielding jedi/sith. Bounty hunter may not have been the greatest w.r.t. gameplay mechanics, but I think it did well to make an interesting story.

 

The reasons more than anything else to play, I think, is to socialize like we do here, co op, find out the storyline elements, and more or less make our own story/game. There are the hardcore explorers, status-ticians, etc. Then people just doing it casually, for fun. It looks bad, and it might just be a disappointment, but then again we could be wrong. It might not be what we're used to thinking it is. We won't know until it's here.

 

This coming fom some guy whose computer probably won't handle it nor could afford it anyway b/c he has most his family's property tied up in his name. And was neutral on this mmo to begin with.

[Tommycat]

I just hope there's enough diversity in the other classes that having 4 classes out of 8 be force users doesn't feel limiting.

[DAWUSS]

Now I know, it's not fair to compare SWG and SWTOR, but how can you not? They are both Star Wars MMOs.

 

 

Considering that (IIRC) many people who gave us the NGE are the same people working on this...

 

 

FWIS, this is basically the NGE from a blank slate.

[RogueJedi86]

I have heard rumors that TOR is basically NGE from the ground up, with the shooter gameplay and iconic classes. Maybe the NGE done right. And to be fair, TOR also has developers who worked on the original pre-CU/NGE SWG.

[Hallucination]

I have heard rumors that TOR is basically NGE from the ground up, with the shooter gameplay and iconic classes. Maybe the NGE done right. And to be fair, TOR also has developers who worked on the original pre-CU/NGE SWG.

But TOR doesn't have shooter gameplay, at least according to all the videos and the hotbar.

[RogueJedi86]

NGE has a hotbar too, still shooter.

[Jeff]

From the demo videos we've seen it's pretty clear that the game doesn't have any real shooter mechanics, it's more just auto-attack and abilities.

[Tommycat]

To be fair to the NGE, IF it hadn't replaced classic SWG I think it might have done well. If it was a second game rather than a wipe over the CU/pre-CU SWG, it would likely not have had such a bad rap. Lets face it most of the problems were because NGE was overlayed on a game that was not originally intended for that style of gameplay. Had the NGE been say SWGII and set post Episode VI I believe more people would have cheered it on. BUT since it essentially neutered SWG and was so horribly buggy at first that the game was darn near unplayable, it goes down as a massive blunder.

 

@Jeff: Well to be fair NGE now is less shooter than it was when they started it. TOR does kinda look like SWG-NGE done right. Which in my book is a big plus. Perhaps, SWG might move itself back a bit more to the CU/pre-CU type of game, with enough expertise options available to get the old 32 professions. I doubt they would actually roll it back though, just keep adding expertise until it's a lot closer to pre-CU.

[Ztalker]

But TOR doesn't have shooter gameplay, at least according to all the videos and the hotbar.

 

AHA! So you DO have a script. You confirmed that it doesn't contain shooter scenes! Wait...that's actually not good.

 

*flee*

[Nedak]

I really hope that BHs can hunt Player Jedi...

 

With half the classes being Jedi, more to go around

[Hallucination]

AHA! So you DO have a script.

I wish.

[RogueJedi86]

Why limit it to just hunting Jedi? There's more than just Jedi who commit crimes. Lots of guys who skip out on a court hearing who have to be brought in or whatever. Boba Fett was a famous bounty hunter, and he started hunting after the Jedi were wiped out.

[Nedak]

Why limit it to just hunting Jedi? There's more than just Jedi who commit crimes. Lots of guys who skip out on a court hearing who have to be brought in or whatever. Boba Fett was a famous bounty hunter, and he started hunting after the Jedi were wiped out.

 

Hunting others seems fine to me, but I would at least like to hunt Jedi

[Deft Aklin]

What everyone needs to take into account is this simple fact; No matter WHAT BioWare did, there was going to be a heavy HEAVY Jedi/Sith population. What they have accomplished with the final two class releases is ensure that the game has that plethora of Jedi/Sith assume different roles by class/spec selection. Therefore, we should see less of the grouping problems that hurt WoW.

 

I think people need to stop focusing on the amount of Jedi/Sith in the game. The time period was selected so they could get away with that. They planned for this from the beginning. Think SWG when they released the Combat Upgrade; just about everyone rushed off to try to do the Jedi quests. When they released the NGE; just about everyone that wasn't a Jedi, became one. Yes, it eventually leveled out. Yes it was terrible. But that game was set in an era when Jedi were supposed to be beyond rare. This one, the war between the Jedi and Sith has not yet decimated the population of force users. Palpatine and Vader have not gone on their galaxy wide Force user hunt. Force users are quite common in this time frame. So... what is the argument against them?

[Ztalker]

What everyone needs to take into account is this simple fact; No matter WHAT BioWare did, there was going to be a heavy HEAVY Jedi/Sith population. What they have accomplished with the final two class releases is ensure that the game has that plethora of Jedi/Sith assume different roles by class/spec selection. Therefore, we should see less of the grouping problems that hurt WoW.

 

I think people need to stop focusing on the amount of Jedi/Sith in the game. The time period was selected so they could get away with that. They planned for this from the beginning. Think SWG when they released the Combat Upgrade; just about everyone rushed off to try to do the Jedi quests. When they released the NGE; just about everyone that wasn't a Jedi, became one. Yes, it eventually leveled out. Yes it was terrible. But that game was set in an era when Jedi were supposed to be beyond rare. This one, the war between the Jedi and Sith has not yet decimated the population of force users. Palpatine and Vader have not gone on their galaxy wide Force user hunt. Force users are quite common in this time frame. So... what is the argument against them?

 

That the other 2 classes will be discriminated in terms of content and/or grouping. The class that is played the most is probably the class that people know the best, which have the most forum posts and guides written for them.

Look at the rogues from WoW. I see very few of them. Mainly because there are 'easier' ways of DPS-ing. And hacking stuff with a lightsaber is easier then shooting it from a crouched position miles away whilst using seventeen skills...which are useless against aformentioned saber.

[Deft Aklin]

That the other 2 classes will be discriminated in terms of content and/or grouping. The class that is played the most is probably the class that people know the best, which have the most forum posts and guides written for them.

Look at the rogues from WoW. I see very few of them. Mainly because there are 'easier' ways of DPS-ing. And hacking stuff with a lightsaber is easier then shooting it from a crouched position miles away whilst using seventeen skills...which are useless against aformentioned saber.

 

Where are you getting your information from though? We have to, on good faith, assume the devs are truthful in that classes will be balanced appropriately. We have no evidence that any class will overpower another.

 

The reason you don't see many Rogues is not because there are easier ways to DPS, but because all the people that did play rogues now play other classes because the Devs have nerfed them to no end. This balancing ebb and flow of classes happens in all games and you will see it in TOR as well. Best to prepare for the eventuality that you will be forced to adapt to either play against, or make the current FOTM. It's a GREAT way for the devs to give the PvPers more content without actually giving them anything.

 

In any event, I would honestly expect that the devs will actually give MORE to the non force user classes simply to help balance things out. This is actually a good part of what helps cause the FOTM mindset to begin with. Whatever class is currently weakest or least popular is the one you should be grinding in your spare time as the devs will soon change that. Personally, I have a feeling that Imperial Agents and Smugglers will be the OP classes to be beat. Simple reason; Fire on the run. I'm not even sure IAs will get it, but Smugglers have already had it announced, and quite frankly, that will hurt the FU classes. If you truly believe saber block will be invincible, you need to take into account that it is also going to be an activated ability, which means, it will not run indefinitely.

[Ztalker]

Where are you getting your information from though? We have to, on good faith, assume the devs are truthful in that classes will be balanced appropriately. We have no evidence that any class will overpower another.

 

The reason you don't see many Rogues is not because there are easier ways to DPS, but because all the people that did play rogues now play other classes because the Devs have nerfed them to no end. This balancing ebb and flow of classes happens in all games and you will see it in TOR as well. Best to prepare for the eventuality that you will be forced to adapt to either play against, or make the current FOTM. It's a GREAT way for the devs to give the PvPers more content without actually giving them anything.

 

In any event, I would honestly expect that the devs will actually give MORE to the non force user classes simply to help balance things out. This is actually a good part of what helps cause the FOTM mindset to begin with. Whatever class is currently weakest or least popular is the one you should be grinding in your spare time as the devs will soon change that. Personally, I have a feeling that Imperial Agents and Smugglers will be the OP classes to be beat. Simple reason; Fire on the run. I'm not even sure IAs will get it, but Smugglers have already had it announced, and quite frankly, that will hurt the FU classes. If you truly believe saber block will be invincible, you need to take into account that it is also going to be an activated ability, which means, it will not run indefinitely.

 

Ehm. My information is based on the first Star Wars movie that showed us that sabers PWN everything else that wields guns? Maybe the rogue reference wasn't good, but you can at least nerf rogues. You can't nerf Jedi. They're a living mix of God, Clint Eastwood, a Samurai and Obama. That's the problem here. SW's continuity explicitly says Jedi and Sith are the strongest and most important classes.

That's what I meant with discrimination. Because I think playing a Jedi will feel far more epic then playing a Sith spie.

 

I hope Bioware creates a good game though, I really do. But if there are 4 Force classes out of a total of 8 I doubt they can.

[Deft Aklin]

Ehm. My information is based on the first Star Wars movie that showed us that sabers PWN everything else that wields guns? Maybe the rogue reference wasn't good, but you can at least nerf rogues. You can't nerf Jedi. They're a living mix of God, Clint Eastwood, a Samurai and Obama. That's the problem here. SW's continuity explicitly says Jedi and Sith are the strongest and most important classes.

That's what I meant with discrimination. Because I think playing a Jedi will feel far more epic then playing a Sith spie.

 

I hope Bioware creates a good game though, I really do. But if there are 4 Force classes out of a total of 8 I doubt they can.

Take into account, that the Jedi you saw in the movies were the cream of the crop. Yes, Mace killed Jango, but Jango didn't have all of his equipment (See the book, he was trying to use his jetpack when he died). However; his flamethrower did singe Mace. You need to also take into account that there is a much larger Sith/Jedi population in this time period which justifies the classes, but also you can expect that people are more apt to understand necessary concepts to fight Jedi/Sith, like solid projectile weapons. A Jedi cannot stop a flamethrower, or a bullet.

 

In any event, being that it's a game, you should expect the devs to constantly be adjusting the balance.

 

As far as content though, I'm more concerned about Smugglers and Bounty Hunters having the cool missions available to them than I am about Jedi content. Smuggling runs and Player Bounties oh my...

[Ztalker]

^ Player bounties would be so cool. If 3 people sign a contract you can just put an advert in-hame asking to kill the d*mn Ninja-looter.

[RogueJedi86]

My evidence of non-Jedi beating Jedi is Order 66, when a bunch of Troopers killed 99% of the Jedi Order in one fell swoop.