adamqd Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I don't get this notion that the EU is some kind of Make a wish foundation for writers, like they should be thankful for being allowed to step foot in GL's world hehe, he makes a lot of money from them its not a charity. But yea I know all about how canon works Have done for many years, and I've heard the "GL>You" Many many times too how the EU bends to GL and never the other way round, I'm simply saying I dislike it, why cant people read that in my posts ? I must come across as a total Noob, some of the replies I get hehe. and for the Record I'm strictly talking about the CLONE WARS here, the films Rule, I'm Talking about Now, GL, TCW, etc. Please don't talk about the Films to make your point... I bow down to ESB, spit in the eye of TCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarsityPuppet Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Man, I read this whole thread here and there are way too many good points. My view on the Mandalorians has always flip-flopped. K1 - Thugs, tough to kill, murderers, etc k2 - Thugs yes, murderers still, but I guess I had sympathy for them. The thought of their code/honor/ways of life being lost forever made me feel sorry for them. If I was a Mando myself, I'd probably be doing the same thing: trying to rebuild. Same would go for the Jedi or the Sith, but probably not gungans But don't any of you try to pin the whole "Murderous barbarian" label on me. Just because I'm in favor of the "old mando ways", doesn't mean that it's because I like to kill women, babies and pacifists. No, it's simply from a storytelling perspective. If I adhered to the "code of honor" I would probably be pissed off by these pacifist losers. Conversely, If I was one of these pacifists, I would see nothing but folly in the minds of mindless brutes. So which am I? OH WAIT, NEITHER! I can imagine I'm anyone I want and hold whatever imaginary goals I want too because it doesn't matter. Breaking the 3rd wall aside, I have to agree that these Mandalorian pacifists is a good idea. It was only a matter of time before someone wanted to make a change for the better anyways. It works. I would still be rooting for the old Mandos, but hey, that's just me. Now what I don't like is this whole canon issue, specifically retconning, is that it's primarily wasting time. There's a limitless amount of planets, time periods, people, technology, so why go around trying to modify other people's work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Flat, infantile Stories and Characters. Very few episodes at the beggining, yes. But most episodes are not infantile stories. As for the characters, they are very solid. Overused era and Characters Not at all. Except for maybe Anakin and Obi-Wan, there's no such thing... Borrowed and Butchered Themes and events (ie; Vizla, Concord Dawn, Open Seasons, the Death Watch) That's called homage, not butchering. And it was only Vizsla and the Death Watch, not Open Season nor Concord Dawn. Anakin Has a Padawan The only thing I agree with you. But I guess we can only judge her when the show is finished. Gay Hutts Guess what, Hutts are hermaphrodites. George Lucas Yes, the same guy who gave us Star Wars. Why is this bad? Look, I respect your opinion if you don't like it, but that doesn't make it bad. Besides, it has been very well received by reviewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 That's called homage, not butchering. And it was only Vizsla and the Death Watch, not Open Season nor Concord Dawn. Concordia? the story in Open Seasons?... read it and you'll understand Guess what, Hutts are hermaphrodites. I know, and I wasn't talking Biology, the Hutt has male Personality Yes, the same guy who gave us Star Wars. Why is this bad? Look, I respect your opinion if you don't like it, but that doesn't make it bad. Besides, it has been very well received by reviewers. And I too respect your opinion, its a Forum hehe, its the nature of our presence, to discuss and argue and sometimes agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile007 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Ever since Episode II came out it seems as if George Lucas and his buddies have been focusing entirely on the Clone Wars, with the notable exception of The Force Unleashed. However, Lucas and his buddies do not realize (or care) that they've milked the Clone Wars far too much, and are now squeezing the poor cow for its last pennies/droplets of milk before casting it aside. I fail to see how the Clone Wars is even relevant to the Star Wars universe. The whole purpose of the prequel trilogy is to show how and why Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side. The trilogy shows us his transformation and gives us one reason as to why he turns to the dark side: love. He loves Padme and doesn't want to see her hurt. This love is corrupted by fear, which turns him to the dark side. So could someone please explain to me what the purpose of the Clone Wars is? Does Lucas want to be sure that we have heard ever last detail of the time between Episodes II and III? A pitiful decision. Maybe Lucas feels like everybody has a piece of his pie, so he wants a piece of everyone's piece (HINT: transformation of Mandos). Whatever, Lucasarts will only redeem themselves in my eyes by letting Obsidian do KotOR 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 So could someone please explain to me what the purpose of the Clone Wars is? To show Anakin's "Hero of the Republic" side, to develop characters that couldn't have to much screen time on the prequels, to show the clone wars to the general audience, and to create a new generation of Star Wars fans. A pitiful decision. Hence the great ratings, the positive reviews and the huge sucess. Maybe Lucas feels like everybody has a piece of his pie, so he wants a piece of everyone's piece (HINT: transformation of Mandos). And where did he transformed the Mandos? Did you forget he created them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile007 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 To show Anakin's "Hero of the Republic" side, to develop characters that couldn't have to much screen time on the prequels, to show the clone wars to the general audience, and to create a new generation of Star Wars fans. General audience? New generation? I'm afraid I don't understand. Anakin's hero side was shown through numerous novels AND the beginning of Episode III. Hence the great ratings, the positive reviews, and the huge success. I don't think that I ever said that the Clone Wars is an abomination and needs to be destroyed. I'm sure that there are people who enjoy it and I respect that. However, I pointed out that Lucas is making a mistake in trying to fill in *every* detail between Episodes II and III. It really leaves nothing to the imagination of the viewers (that wasn't a pun >.<). Besides, the Clone Wars seems to be geared towards an extremely young audience. You refer to creating a new audience? Star Wars isn't going to last forever, despite some hope. So IMO, end it on a high note. Technically, one could explore the Star Wars universe until the Jedi and Sith became extinct and the rest of the people flew through the Unknown Regions, landed on Earth, and let the historians pick up from there; this is an example of an axe murder. And where did he transformed the Mandos? Did you forget he created them? Sorry, I was referring to the way that Mandos where shown in the KotOR series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 General audience? New generation? I'm afraid I don't understand. General audience, the ones who only follow the movies and such. New generation, as the ones whom TCW is their first contact with Star Wars. Anakin's hero side was shown through numerous novels AND the beginning of Episode III. Yet, that's not known for the general audience. Besides, the Clone Wars seems to be geared towards an extremely young audience. As were the movies. Most of the episodes plot is as serious as the movies. You refer to creating a new audience? Star Wars isn't going to last forever, despite some hope. If they keep this way, I seriously doubt that. So IMO, end it on a high note. Technically, one could explore the Star Wars universe until the Jedi and Sith became extinct and the rest of the people flew through the Unknown Regions, landed on Earth, and let the historians pick up from there; this is an example of an axe murder. I really don't see the problem. Everyone makes their own canon. Sorry, I was referring to the way that Mandos where shown in the KotOR series. And why should a culture be the same on both eras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile007 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Ok, clearly you believed me to be attacking your claims and belief. I wasn't, I was commenting on the threat title and giving my opinion. I don't want to be locked in an argument about who's right and wrong. We both have our opinions, different as they may be. I don't like confrontations! This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Ok, clearly you believed me to be attacking your claims and belief. Not at all, I'm just discussing. I was commenting on the threat title and giving my opinion. I don't want to be locked in an argument about who's right and wrong. We both have our opinions, different as they may be. And I respect your opinion. I was just discussing it. After all, that's why this thread is for, discussing opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Mandos... Did you forget he created them? Don't quote me on this, but the first instance of the name was from the Empire Strikes back novelization, penned by Donald Glut, not Lucas... But then again, Coruscant was an EU name, and no one is gonna take that from Lucas hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Don't quote me on this, but the first instance of the name was from the Empire Strikes back novelization, penned by Donald Glut, not Lucas... Indeed, but it was Lucas who created the small backstory of Boba on that novel. As it was Lucas who created Darth Bane and the Rule of Two on TPM novel, yet, the novel was written by Terry Brooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 . Obsidian learned this the hard way considering their story just got retconned out by Bioware. Eh? How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Indeed... I asked you not to Quote me on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I asked you not to Quote me on it But you were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneal Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've read several of the posts on this page and it really doesn't seem like any of you guys know who the mandos are. They didn't become a bloodthirsty band of thugs until Mandolore the Ultimate was influenced by the sith to weaken the republic. After the sith were no longer and influence on the Mandolore it was the Supercommando codex that brought out the Death Watch and caused the mando civil war because they wanted a return to the so called glory days of trying to conquer the galaxy. Mandoe'ade are mercenaries and bounty hunters by trade and warriors forever but they are nothing like the warmongers you believe them to be. If you read the Republic Commandos series of books you'll find out that the entire culture is based on family. In fact the greates title that any mando can hold is father or mother. I hate to tell you this but the clone wars version of both mandolore and the mandolorians is waaaay off but so is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaan Sadow Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 You resurrected an ancient thread that no one has thought about since Feb of 2010, I applaude you. However you also need to realize that the Mandos at the time of KotOR were a dying species... they had to train normal races ie human, rodian ect in their ways otherwise they would have been lost... and we all know that things have a tendancy to spiral out of control through the passing of information over time. So it's very possible that at the time the Clone Wars happened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneal Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Actually the mandos were made up of multi species already at the time of TOR before Revan and Malek were led to the dark side by the sith emporer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaan Sadow Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Actually the mandos were made up of multi species already at the time of TOR before Revan and Malek were led to the dark side by the sith emporer. Yes, but there were a few of the actually is a few I believe from Canderous' war stories... though I may have misinterpretted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneal Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 You may have me there, I've never even heard of the Canderous' war stories. As far as "resurecting an ancient thread" I didn't pay attention to the dates. I saw my favorite part of the SWU (particularly the Republic Commandos version) being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canderis Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Actually the mandos were made up of multi species already at the time of TOR before Revan and Malek were led to the dark side by the sith emporer. TOR happened AFTER kotor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneal Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 My mistake, I'm more familiar with the novels than the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr1ffing_Br1lliant Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't understand the logic behind claiming that The Clone Wars has strong characters and yet wanting the mandalorians to remain as a living stereotype of thugs and murderers. I really don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with the jedi always looking like the "heroes" and relegating the mandalorians to a confused and "evil" status. Karen Traviss wrote her stories from the perspectives of her characters. She is not a "hack" writer if she is biased. She took on what everyone but the jedi saw the jedi as: the negative stereotypes of clueless, but well-meaning protectors. Karen Traviss wasn't the first person to see the jedi from a negative light. Just look at the "Republic" series of comics that show the clone wars in detail. The populace on Jabiim were so moved by their distaste for jedi that they fought them piecemeal. The whole reason that the move by lucasfilm to rewrite canon from the EU is such a literal slap in the face to the community is that the parts being rewritten are read from an adult perspective that sees characters from all sides. It doesn't label anyone as "good" or "evil" by the army they fight for. It shows the motivation for their joining either side; and unfortunately this favor of making everything more one dimensionally puts the entire license of Star Wars in jeopardy to the older audiences. I for one can't stand watching well developed characters and societies "cleansed" so that everyone can understand them. I don't care if George Lucas himself decided to retcon everything that isn't compatible to other series. He needs to understand that the Expanded Universe was designed to be palpable to a multitude of audiences and if he doesn't support any more than one opinion, the entire Star Wars license is going to completely dissolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 If you read the Republic Commandos series of books you'll find out that the entire culture is based on family. In fact the greates title that any mando can hold is father or mother. I hate to tell you this but the clone wars version of both mandolore and the mandolorians is waaaay off but so is yours. Those books were written by a person who was entirely ignorant of both Star Wars and it's universe, a fact they readily admit. It's best to take any of Karen Traviss' interpretations of anything Star Wars related with a truck load of salt. Not to mention the fact those books are filled with an awful attempt at creating a 'language'. Yeah, folks, I'm ragging on Traviss and the Mandos again. Sue me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr1ffing_Br1lliant Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 TOR happened AFTER kotor... The Mandalorians were multi-species in the KOTOR comics and in the Exar Kun story arc. Those were well before the first KOTOR game. Those books were written by a person who was entirely ignorant of both Star Wars and it's universe, a fact they readily admit. It's best to take any of Karen Traviss' interpretations of anything Star Wars related with a truck load of salt. Not to mention the fact those books are filled with an awful attempt at creating a 'language'. Yeah, folks, I'm ragging on Traviss and the Mandos again. Sue me! Why do you not want Karen Traviss's Mandos to be canon? Is it because of what she says or how she says it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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