Bioshock Infinite - Irrational Games Next Project

[Lynk Former]

It's a good game cause I had the most important thing happen to me while playing it... I had fun.

 

 

As for the story, figured it out when charlie darwin washed lizzies hands in the bird drinker washer thingymajigger. But does that mean that the game sucks because I figured it out at some point? No. The game wasn't broken, it was well made and I enjoyed myself.

 

That may not make it a GREAT game, but it is a good game.

[Achilles]

I think the point of the essay is that subjectivity is fine, so long as 1) everyone sees it for what it is (i.e. not objectivity) and 2) acts as a starting point for discussion (when warranted).

 

By my reading, the larger argument seemed to be that it's pretty sad when the industry gives the highest ratings to games that make the light flicker on the "I had fun" meter. 10/10 becomes pretty meaningless if they are handing out 9.7/10 for games that clearly think themselves mind-blowing, but end up just being good.

 

Game reviews that say, "Exciting gameplay coupled with some of the best writing seen this year" might be helpful for someone like Lynk, who categorizes "fun" as "the most important thing", but aren't helpful at all for someone whose "most important thing" is the story. The industry doesn't help itself or its audience when it collectively hypes certain aspects of a game undeservedly.

[Taak Farst]

It is a game I haven't played because I can kinda predict what'll happen; I will go in there with massive expectations because I have only good things about it and then it will disappoint.

 

That and I didn't like the first two BioShock games anyway...call me weird...

[Lynk Former]

@ Achilles: You are... wrong.

 

I haven't read a game review in a very long time because video game journalism and reviews in general are all... terrible. None of what is written is helpful for someone like me because none of them care about whether or not people will find a game fun to play.

 

I too agree that this industry has given way too much credit to BioShock Infinite, as well as other games for all the wrong reasons... but I still think it's a good game. I could pick it apart totally and inspect each individual component like I've done with Mass Effect 3 in relation to the other two games, but in the case of Infinite, I don't feel I need to do that because it managed to do what the developers set out to do in the first place.

 

Whether it is a masterpiece or not, I don't really care because unlike many, I don't care whether video games are seen as high art, I'm more concerned as to whether those games are enjoyable to play.

 

Video game journalism doesn't give me that and people who tout video games as a contender for high art doesn't give me what I'm looking for either. I don't think anyone in video game journalism really cares if a game is fun or not, just as long as their pockets are lined by publishers to advertise their games. And I don't think people who see video games as a contender for high art value the enjoyment of playing a video game as much as they value the enjoyment of discussing whatever complexities in story and structure it has.

 

And if a game like BioShock Infinite gets a 10/10, I really don't care because they're just arbitrary numbers given by some person over there somewhere that doesn't really matter.

[Lynk Former]

On a totally different note...

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

[Achilles]

@ Achilles: You are... wrong.

Wow, that sounds like a factual statement. Can't wait to see how you're gonna back that up.

 

I too agree that this industry has given way too much credit to BioShock Infinite, as well as other games for all the wrong reasons... but I still think it's a good game.

Couple of subjective statements here. One of which agrees with my position. The other one is pretty meaningless. You're allowed to think it's a good game. No one is contesting that.

 

I could pick it apart totally and inspect each individual component like I've done with Mass Effect 3 in relation to the other two games, but in the case of Infinite, I don't feel I need to do that because it managed to do what the developers set out to do in the first place.

More subjectivity. Some of which I disagree with. Some of which I find hypocritical.

 

Whether it is a masterpiece or not, I don't really care because unlike many, I don't care whether video games are seen as high art, I'm more concerned as to whether those games are enjoyable to play.

I'm sure I don't need to point out what this is. And again, no one is begrudging you your opinion.

 

Video game journalism doesn't give me that and people who tout video games as a contender for high art doesn't give me what I'm looking for either. I don't think anyone in video game journalism really cares if a game is fun or not, just as long as their pockets are lined by publishers to advertise their games. And I don't think people who see video games as a contender for high art value the enjoyment of playing a video game as much as they value the enjoyment of discussing whatever complexities in story and structure it has.

Ok, so you look at "vidya" differently. Congratulations. I'm not sure what that has to do with the point of the article (specifically, video game journalism makes itself useless/valueless by giving high ratings mediocre games...regardless of what standard you are using)

 

And if a game like BioShock Infinite gets a 10/10, I really don't care because they're just arbitrary numbers given by some person over there somewhere that doesn't really matter.

And maybe that's the whole point. Maybe someone who actually works in the industry tries to take it a little bit seriously (aka not "vidya"), who for some crazy reason thinks that game reviews shouldn't be arbitrary, decided to write an article about it. An article that someone posted here. And a few of us are trying to talk about. But apparently not you. So why are you replying to my posts again?

 

Oh yeah, to tell me that I'm wrong (not, "I disagree" or "My opinion is you're wrong because...", but "you are...wrong") and then proceed to post 5 chunks of opinion.

 

Hang on while I look for a golf clap smiley.

[Lynk Former]

Wow, that sounds like a factual statement. Can't wait to see how you're gonna back that up.

You made a statement about me and I told you that your statement about me is wrong and elaborated with what my opinions on the matter actually are.

 

If you didn't like that, then next time you probably shouldn't assume things about me to begin with.

[Achilles]

You made a statement about me and I told you that your statement about me is wrong and elaborated with what my opinions on the matter actually are.

 

If you didn't like that, then next time you probably shouldn't assume things about me to begin with.

The only possible post you could be referring to is this one.

 

In that post the only thing that even references you is this line:

Game reviews that say, "Exciting gameplay coupled with some of the best writing seen this year" might be helpful for someone like Lynk, who categorizes "fun" as "the most important thing", but aren't helpful at all for someone whose "most important thing" is the story.

(Emphasis added).

 

Those quotation marks aren't there by accident, Lynk.

 

It's a good game cause I had the most important thing happen to me while playing it... I had fun.

Emphasis added.

 

Pretty please show me how I misrepresented you.

 

I quoted you saying words. I didn't even do it in a derogatory way or with derogatory intent. No one is suggesting that "fun" cannot be, or shouldn't be, your "most important thing". I did say (and I'll say again) giving a game a high rating for being fun is fine, but isn't helpful to those whose "most important thing" is something else (like the story). Which a lot of people did, Lynk.

[Lynk Former]

My apologies, you're right, I should have quoted the exact part of the post in my reply to begin with, but you're still wrong about me... and I wasn't saying "you're a bad person for thinking that way" just that... you are wrong about me, nothing more.

 

Unless you're RIGHT about me, in which case, you know me better than I do and should probably ask you which game I should buy next

[Achilles]

Fair enough. Might I recommend The Witcher 3?

[mimartin]

Two of my favorite people in a fight...

 

I bought it, but haven't played it, so my opinion means nothing.

[Achilles]

FWIW, I think she immediately alienated a large segment of her potential audience by using the game that she did for her jumping off point. I think her criticism of the game is spot-on, but the larger point being made was echoed perfectly by Lynk:

 

"...because they're just arbitrary numbers given by some person over there somewhere that doesn't really matter."

 

Classic supply and demand: when supply is high, demand is low (e.g. the product has diminished value). When the product is near-perfect game scores, the result is that game reviews don't tell you anything meaningful. People stop paying attention because the numbers become arbitrary when they don't have to be. There's an entire industry that could be serving a purpose, but has no value for it's intended audience. If I'm someone in that industry, working hard to provide some value, that has to be pretty frustrating for me.

 

EDIT: And, for the record, I agree with Lynk: it is a fun game. But if you bought it because you heard it has amazing writing, well...your results may vary.

[Sabretooth]

Wait is this the Kavar's I thought I walked into Outlander which way is okay now I'm confused

 

On a more serious note, this game turned out rather awkwardly. For all the excellent work put into creating the world of Columbia by the level and art design departments, there is awfully little to do or interact with in the world. It's a railroaded rollercoastered conveyor where you're constantly whisked from one clockwork machinery to the next. It's so awkward that in a world mired with complexity, the only possible way to interact is to fire weapons and loot items.

 

I wouldn't even call it a particularly fun game beyond the opening 2-3 hours as it drags on in repetitive fight sequence after fight sequence. Want the next bit of story? Jack off with a bunch of a guns for ten minutes.

 

The game is a masterful example of how this generation's AAA games used bombastic production design and game design tricks to keep your carrot-and-stick'ed through to the end for a ride that made absolutely no sense. And to think this core team was responsible for System Shock 2.

 

I'd go on, but pretty much everything I want to say was said better by Tevis Thompson.

[mimartin]

EDIT: And, for the record, I agree with Lynk: it is a fun game. But if you bought it because you heard it has amazing writing, well...your results may vary.

Yeah I didn't keep up with it, I bought it because I love bioshock. Not a must play right away because I also bought and played some of bioshock 2. I also bought GTA V too and haven't been able to get into it. Hell I still haven't finished Skyrim.

[Lynk Former]

It's better than Kavar's cause we're actually talking about something important... video games

 

 

I do agree that the game is one repetitive shootout after another... but in a strange way, it kept me going... mostly because I was already figuring out what was going on and was wondering if I was on the money or if I'd be surprised.

 

I wasn't surprised, but by the time I got to the end of the game I thought, "Hey neat, it did turn out like I expected with some added bit of fan service."

 

Now they need to make BioShock Astra... where you're in space and only Big Mama's can hear you scream.

 

XD

 

 

 

 

 

...at least you play the game though and not have qte after qte like in Heavy Rain. Because, according to David Cage, the best video games are the ones you don't actually play.

[Darth Avlectus]

I've already seen some hentai of Elizabeth.

[Lynk Former]

Of course you have, it's one of the most important rules of the Internet.

[HED]

Turns out Infinite is also Irrational's last project.

 

A Message From Ken Levine

 

When Jon Chey, Rob Fermier and I founded Irrational Games seventeen years ago, our mission was to make visually unique worlds and populate them with singular characters.

We built Rapture and Columbia, the Von Braun and The Rickenbacker, the Freedom Fortress and some of the nastiest basements a SWAT team ever set foot into. We created Booker and Elizabeth, the Big Daddy and the Little Sister, MidWives and ManBot. In that time, Irrational has grown larger and more successful than we could have conceived when we began our three-person studio in a living room in Cambridge, MA. It’s been the defining project of my professional life.

 

Now Irrational Games is about to roll out the last DLC for BioShock Infinite and people are understandably asking: What’s next?

 

Seventeen years is a long time to do any job, even the best one. And working with the incredible team at Irrational Games is indeed the best job I’ve ever had. While I’m deeply proud of what we’ve accomplished together, my passion has turned to making a different kind of game than we’ve done before. To meet the challenge ahead, I need to refocus my energy on a smaller team with a flatter structure and a more direct relationship with gamers. In many ways, it will be a return to how we started: a small team making games for the core gaming audience.

 

I am winding down Irrational Games as you know it. I’ll be starting a smaller, more entrepreneurial endeavor at Take-Two. That is going to mean parting ways with all but about fifteen members of the Irrational team. There’s no great way to lay people off, and our first concern is to make sure that the people who are leaving have as much support as we can give them during this transition.

 

Besides financial support, the staff will have access to the studio for a period of time to say their goodbyes and put together their portfolios. Other Take-Two studios will be on hand to discuss opportunities within the company, and we’ll be hosting a recruiting day where we’ll be giving 3rd party studios and publishers a chance to hold interviews with departing Irrational staff.*

 

What’s next?

 

In time we will announce a new endeavor with a new goal: To make narrative-driven games for the core gamer that are highly replayable. To foster the most direct relationship with our fans possible, we will focus exclusively on content delivered digitally.

 

When I first contemplated what I wanted to do, it became very clear to me that we were going to need a long period of design. Initially, I thought the only way to build this venture was with a classical startup model, a risk I was prepared to take. But when I talked to Take-Two about the idea, they convinced me that there was no better place to pursue this new chapter than within their walls. After all, they’re the ones who believed in and supported BioShock in the first place.

 

Thanks to Irrational and 2K’s passion in developing the games, and the fans who believe in it, BioShock has generated retail revenues of over a half billion dollars and secured an iconic place in gaming. I’m handing the reins of our creation, the BioShock universe, to 2K so our new venture can focus entirely on replayable narrative. If we’re lucky, we’ll build something half as memorable as BioShock.

 

-Ken Levine

[urluckyday]

"We just made half a billion dollars in revenue with the help of Bioshock - a series that just screams money-maker - so we've decided to lay-off the majority of our staff so that I can go work on something else."

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand what he was trying to say...

[HED]

"We just made half a billion dollars in revenue with the help of Bioshock - a series that just screams money-maker - so we've decided to lay-off the majority of our staff so that I can go work on something else."

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand what he was trying to say...

 

I get the impression that all the praise Levine has gotten has gone to his head. Given that he just decided to have the majority of his staff layed-off because he doesn't want to make games like that anymore (instead of, say, just leaving to start a new studio with Irrational left intact), I'm getting the impression that he's rather self-centered.

[Obi-Wan Bologna]

I get the feeling maybe he is Irrational..... punny

[mimartin]

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

 

If he were to continue with Irrational Games we would say he was only after money, milking the franchise long after its prime. He quits to form a new leaner company to make the new game he envisions, and we criticize him for that too. Just find it all too funny, carry on.

[urluckyday]

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

 

If he were to continue with Irrational Games we would say he was only after money, milking the franchise long after its prime. He quits to form a new leaner company to make the new game he envisions, and we criticize him for that too. Just find it all too funny, carry on.

 

So...he can't just leave Irrational to someone else while he goes to pursue other interests? He has to essentially shut down the entire studio?

[Lynk Former]

I've always seen developers from one game always end up moving from studio to studio, whether they're well known and in the spotlight types or not. If people within Irrational feel that it's time to move on, then that's fine. If the brand is shut down, then that's fine too.

 

Otherwise you get a situation where it just becomes a zombie-developer like Rare owned by Microsoft. It has the brand attached to it but it's a studio that does nothing, has a bunch of no-name people and all of the people who made Rare what it was back in its glory days are all gone.

 

Also, I wrote this post without my contact lenses in so I have no idea what I just wrote.

[mimartin]

So...he can't just leave Irrational to someone else while he goes to pursue other interests? He has to essentially shut down the entire studio?

 

You every own a business? Personally I am not turning over a company I built over to someone unless I trust them with my life. So yeah, I would shut the thing down if I did not have that person in my life or if that person was not able or willing to take it over.

 

Read what he wrote, he says he is taking care of the employees, he did not just kick them to the street with only a moments notice. He is both giving them time and support.

 

Most likely he could of sold his soul to a bigger studio and made decent coin and we would have be criticizing him for that too.