Convince me (spoiler) . . .

[Sir Vougalot]

Vader specifically says that he's been trying to remove the leftover memories thing, which means that he didn't deliberately put them in. This is why I think it's related to Force sensitivity.

 

Yeah, you could well be right, especially with Midi-chlorians and all that other nonsense that came along with the prequel baggage.

 

Hey, if anyone here is a fan of the Thrawn trilogy, I'm trying to remember: Did Joruus C'baoth possess his template's memories? Did Luuke Skywalker? If so, then the Force sensitivity theory may well be correct.

[TKA-001]

Hey, if anyone here is a fan of the Thrawn trilogy, I'm trying to remember: Did Joruus C'baoth possess his template's memories? Did Luuke Skywalker? If so, then the Force sensitivity theory may well be correct.

Joruus C'baoth did indeed think that he was the actual C'baoth, who in reality died when the Outbound Flight project was destroyed. As for the clone of Luke, all we see him do is fight and get killed without a single word of dialogue, suggesting that he doesn't have much mental capacity beyond an attack dog.

[HockeyGoalie35]

I don't think that Vader would go to the trouble of cloning Juno either if he weren't dealing with the original Starkiller.

 

 

well, he would need Juno's body for that right?

[Klw]

well, he would need Juno's body for that right?

 

Juno was technically Vader's employee for a long time.

[bliznez]

Flame and f-bomb removed--again. --Jae

 

on the ACtUAL BOX- it says, Betrayed by Vader for the last time (!!!!!!) , Starkiller (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Has eScaped.

Not ClOne. Not Starkiller Cousin. NoT even Starkiller' s Evil TWin. STARKILLER. HIMSELF. ESCAPES.

AlSO- hOw many times haS an Average Clone Been betrayed by vader? Thats rIght -0 times. Only Real starkiller Was betrayed By DV and Now oly He can be betrrayed for the last (Not first) time.

iF u r nOt convInced- tHink, Why wuld vader Chase some sIlly crapy Clone aCross Galaxy, If he had like a 1000000 more of those On kAmino? Hes real, Ppl, Get used to it.

 

Oh, btW -tHose of ya asking stuff like oH, How Did he survive? hE's surely dead! ? He's a sIth, not a jedi, so itS only impossible toclon Jedi, not sith?- i sAy- StarKiller Is special. Get on with it.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

^^^ Interesting points, not sure that the crazy capitalization helped you, or the insulting tone.

 

I am still unconvinced on either side, only intuition says "not a clone".

[Sir Vougalot]

Starkiller is neither a Jedi nor a Sith.

[bliznez]

eEerm......

... omG- he Is a jEdi! 0_o

WelL, maybe a Grey- so cAlled- Jedi, neiter In lIght nor dark Side- But still..

oH, and reason why i Capitalise- Its like a bad habbit, dood. I just tought its more sTylish, And then it became habbit (((

[gallandro]

I think it's Starkiller. If they had successfully managed to clone Jedi, with the Empire's resources, I think the Rebels would have been fighting an army of Vaders, not Stormtroopers.

 

Just my opinion.

[gallandro]

I mean, why would they go through all that trouble to perfect the cloning process of a powerful force user that could just as easily be their enemy as their ally, when they have two completely devoted Sith to test infinitely.

 

I think they were probably using Starkiller to experiment with cloning, but he unexpectedly woke up, and Vader just had to improvise.

[Sir Vougalot]

He's not a Jedi because the Jedi are an organization, of which he was never inducted into. The same goes for the Sith. He's just a lightsaber-wielding Force user not affiliated with any Force-using organization.

[gallandro]

Not sure how saying the Jedi is an organization really addresses the point. The word Jedi has nothing to do with the cloning process.

 

When they say they can't clone Jedi, they don't mean it's because of a political organization. It's because of the force, which was very strong in Starkiller.

[Sir Vougalot]

I was talking to Bliznez. "32w-9he's a j3di!!1111211!"

[SmootheOperator]

the really confusing part for me, or i guess the part that makes me believe he is a clone, is if you choose the Dark Side ending,

when you are about to strike down Vader, another clone of Starkiller ends up killing you. Vader gets up saying that the cloning process has been perfected in the clone that had just stabbed you, and you were just a pawn to get the Rebels to come to Kamino, where he could eliminate them all

 

 

Personally my choice of ending, the light side ending was to "happy go lucky" for me, Starkiller is a tortured soul, there will be no happy endings for him.

[gallandro]

I was talking to Bliznez. "32w-9he's a j3di!!1111211!"

 

Oh, My apologies there, Zerimar.

[JediOrinDavari]

Then why didn't they just come out and say it? To me it seems like they must have had Kota express his doubts for a reason. There are also some other suspicious clues:

1. Vader is constantly lying and deceiving. In the first game he changed his story every time they met.

2. Memory is not stored in DNA.

3. The "distant thunder body" from the challenges is not wearing the robes that Marek died in.

4. The novelization for the first game may have been written before the second game was planned. Star Wars has been known to contradict itself in its sequels.

 

But that is a pretty good reason to argue that he is a clone. Thank you.

 

To me, cloning is just a gimmick to resurrect an old storyline. Clone or not, the plot for this game was pretty weak. What with all of the flashbacks strewn everywhere it seems more like the sentimental reunion episode of a sitcom than the sequel of a motion picture. When Kota said that the fate of the entire rebellion rested on the battle of Kamino I was really disinclined to believe him. The storyline went from being great to "remembering the good old days" in the blink of an eye. That's why I hate clones.

 

I agree. I think perhaps vader lyed about him being a clone just so he can make him more obedient.

[Klw]

It would be epic if the Dark Apprentice were the real Starkiller (That would mean that we were playing with a clone this whole time, but the campaign was bad enough anyway).

 

After all, he did say, "I wonder if he is here."

 

If Vader is using the cloning story as a way to make the real Marek obedient, the Dark Apprentice would be just as likely a target as Starkiller.

 

There really is no evidence for this, but that's what makes it so intriguing.

 

Maybe the Dark Apprentice was the only subject strong enough to resist his feelings because he isn't a clone.

 

Maybe the "birth" scene depicts the real Marek waking up from a regenerative coma.

 

Maybe I've left the galaxy on this one.

[Sir Vougalot]

I think that would kind of cheapen his redemption in the previous game, though. Darth Vader's secret apprentice, raised from childhood as a sort of twisted adoptive son to do his father's sick bidding, who overcomes all of that and helps usher in new hope for an oppressed galaxy and finds love in the process . . . only to be brought right back where he started, this time with virtually no will of his own whatsoever and ready and willing to murder his true love without a second thought?

 

That doesn't exactly strike me as epic. That strikes me as a ruined character.

[Klw]

I think that would kind of cheapen his redemption in the previous game

 

I think that ship sailed a long time ago when they decided to make a second game.

[Sir Vougalot]

Good point.

[Necroden]

I think that would kind of cheapen his redemption in the previous game, though. Darth Vader's secret apprentice, raised from childhood as a sort of twisted adoptive son to do his father's sick bidding, who overcomes all of that and helps usher in new hope for an oppressed galaxy and finds love in the process . . . only to be brought right back where he started, this time with virtually no will of his own whatsoever and ready and willing to murder his true love without a second thought?

 

That doesn't exactly strike me as epic. That strikes me as a ruined character.

 

Actually, it might be usable for a decent plot in TFU 3

 

I have an idea that it might be interesting if the player switched between the dark Apprentice and Starkiller every mission in TFU III. Through interactions with Juno, Kota and more importantly Starkiller, the Dark Apprentice might start to have doubts about the dark side and Vader's lies. In the climax, he would kill his clone at Vader's behest but in doing so he realizes that the clone is what he is supposed to be, that he is Galen Marek. Then he would make a last act against Vader and make a Heroic Sacrifice that saves the alliance and dies in the process.

[Klw]

I was just thinking about this and was wondering if anyone had any more thoughts. So I would like to develop my thoughts a little more:

 

The fact is that Vader really wants to recover the Starkiller we play with, and alive (he doesn't just want to see where he goes and he doesn't just want to kill him).

 

Given the fact that Vader already has a "perfect clone," the Dark Apprentice, I think it's safe to say that he doesn't want Starkiller because he's just a really good clone that could still be useful. It isn't worth all of Vader's trouble.

 

So that could mean two things:

 

1. He's not a clone and Vader is trying to capture the real Starkiller alive.

 

2. He is a clone, but . . .

a. The Dark Apprentice really isn't a better clone than him.

b. He was created and set free on purpose so that the Dark Apprentice could hunt him down and by destroying a good version of himself, become truly evil. This in turn could mean that the Dark Apprentice is the real Starkiller or that Vader just really cares about the Dark Apprentice that much.

c. Vader just wanted to lure the rebel fleet to Kamino and fully expected to destroy it.

 

Here's what I think of each possibility:

1: Still possible, but assuming that the dark side ending would have happened, why would Vader let the Dark Apprentice kill the real Starkiller?

2a: Again, why would Vader allow for the dark side ending to be a possibility if he cares so much about this particular clone?

2b: This seems logical to me.

2c: If this is what Vader wanted, he sure messed up badly, didn't he? Based on his instructions to the Dark Apprentice, it's almost as if he thought he might lose the battle. He also didn't just kill Starkiller once he returned with the rebel fleet. Instead, he was willing to let him go back out and hunt down Kota and after that, the rest of the rebel leaders. This could mean that Vader's just trying to salvage something from his failed plan, but that again seems unlikely given the fact that he knew he might lose the battle.

[Darca Lar]

I was happy with the first game and would have been content if there were no sequel since there were little holes left to fill in the saga compared to now. Now I need closure. Is he a clone? I don't know, but it would be cool to see him fight the dark apprentice, or you know.. Boba Fett like I expected the first time. From a romantic happy ending side, it would be interesting to see how they explain how Starkiller is the original, but the more I read into it, the logistic side is saying he is a perfect clone of the original, and I don't mean perfect in Vader's terms.

[Kurgan]

I'm curious why anyone would think we can't fully enjoy a Star Wars game unless it is considered "canon."

 

Don't Star Wars products marked "Infinities" sell? Or is "canon" a magical way to make more money? Star Wars is fake, none of it is real, and it's constantly changing, and there's too much of it for any one person to keep straight.

 

That said, I'm withholding my personal opinion until I actually finish this game (beat TFU:USE but only partway into TFU2).