Ugh! Birthers....

[Tommycat]

Okay it's not really their fault. Birthers haven't been in the news much lately. But the new Democrat Governor of Hawaii decided to take charge and go after the birthers. Unfortunately he has been unable to get the proof that he said he was. He said he was going to get the "Long Form Birth Certificate." And as of recently he stated that he couldn't find any records of it...

 

Does that mean anything? Nope. Well aside from Hawaii may be bad at keeping records.

 

If I were Obama, I would make sure that birth certificate stays hidden. Not because I believe that he was born elsewhere, but because it keeps people looking at the Right as crazy people who think Obama shouldn't be president. I would put money on him being born in the US. Why you ask? Simple Clinton would have used it during the primaries. If he was ineligible the Clinton campaign machine would have uncovered it.

 

But of course now there is a resurgence of the birthers...

 

What's you're opinion? Do you believe that he should produce his "long form" or just keep doing as he has? Do you believe that with the world getting smaller it shouldn't matter if he was born here, just that he is a US citizen?

[Totenkopf]

I understand this issue is on Issa's list of things to "investigate" (granted, not near the top). Until the rules change, his place of birth is relevant.....otherwise Prez. Ahnult would not be beyond the pale (or at least before he became Gov of CA). That said, the birther argument came out of the Clinton campaign, or at least from her supporters. I agree that if they are sitting on the birth certificate, it's to try to allow the birthers to look crazy to their fellow citizens. Still, like with his academic records iirc, it proves that transparency is far from a concern to this administration despite its claims. So, if the evidence were found and he turned out to have been born in Africa, he'd end up only being a 1 term president, but probably not till 2013.

[mimartin]

Yes he was born elsewhere and the birth announcement was planted because they knew one day that the black baby born in Africa would grow up to be President if only they put a fake announcement in the local paper.

 

All I know is I want to ask, whoever could predict a African American President was even possible in 1961, who will win the Super Bowl.

[Sabretooth]

Why can't they just let Obama play his turn in peace and then let Palin restore justice and power and properness?

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Why can't they just let Obama play his turn in peace and then let Palin restore justice and power and properness?

Aaaack.

 

 

 

Groan.

 

 

No.

 

Anyone but the pinup.

[Working Class Hero]

Meh, I don't really care if he was born elsewhere. It doesn't affect his governing ability.

 

What's you're opinion? Do you believe that he should produce his "long form" or just keep doing as he has?

Why not produce it? It certainly couldn't hurt.

[Tommycat]

Why not produce it? It certainly couldn't hurt.

 

It doesn't help. Most people with any kind of rational mind either like him or dislike him based on what he's done. The birthers make the right wing look like crazy people. So it's better to have something out there that makes the right look nuts, than a birth certificate that just says, "Yup, he's legally allowed to be there." That would shut up the birthers, but do nothing to add to his popularity. Most people who believe he is Kenyan dislike him already for any number of reasons. So he has a choice: 1) Show the birth certificate to shut up the birthers and do nothing for him politically, or 2) Not show it and have the birthers look like crazy people and turn people away from the right.

 

Politically it's a good move to leave it as is.

 

Actually it's about the same as the "Selected not elected" crowd was for Bush. Even after the vote counts were completed and the most liberal counts were used, Bush picked up more votes. It didn't stop them from bashing him for it.

[mimartin]

1) Show the birth certificate to shut up the birthers

You do not seriously believe that. Showing the short form birth certificate that is legally acceptable did not shut them up. Showing the birth announcement in the local paper did not shut them up.

 

Do like the attempt to make the lunatics the victims though.

[Working Class Hero]

Wouldn't it be better to prove that the birthers are crazy? If he released the full form, he could use that to point out how ridiculous they were.

 

As it stands now, there's still a little doubt whether he actually has the long form, which impairs his ability to make them look crazy.

[Totenkopf]

You do not seriously believe that. Showing the short form birth certificate that is legally acceptable did not shut them up. Showing the birth announcement in the local paper did not shut them up.

 

Doesn't really matter if it would have shut them up or not, it would have effectively spiked the issue had it been available for release early on. As it is, the refusal to do so then (assuming they actually had it) can only be for political reasons. I'd say that the "elected/selected" argument is an apt comparison. People will always believe whatever they want, often in spite of hard or compelling evidence to the contrary.

 

Meh, I don't really care if he was born elsewhere. It doesn't affect his governing ability.

 

....so the law doesn't matter as long as the person is deemed competent?

[mimartin]

As it stands now, there's still a little doubt whether he actually has the long form, which impairs his ability to make them look crazy.

So what? Why does anyone have to produce a long form when the short form certified copy is perfectly legal? Maybe he does not have the long form. Why would you ever need it if you already had a copy that was perfectly legal? Does the short form not show he was born? That is the only real question was he born, when was he born and where the birth took place; the “short form” provides that information. It is further confirmed by the birth announcement in two papers. So unless someone can show me where time travel today is possible I believe there is no doubt.

 

Now if all you want to do is kick a duly elected official out of office because Hawaii keeps bad records, then we need to rewrite the Constitution to exclude the President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, President pro tempore of the Senate, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of Homeland Security from being from Hawaii. May need to include other states for not keeping records up to the birthers extrordinay standards before the age of computers. I can say right now, Texas needs to be on the list as it is impossible to get a copy of the original birth certificate for either my mother or step-father (County Court House Fires) and my birth certificate list my mother’s date of birth incorrectly. I’m pretty sure if we look close enough we can eliminate every state in the union..

 

Fact Check if you want to see what the short form and see if it is legal

 

The same people that are yelling to high heaven about the “long form” defended Bush for not releasing his Military Records even though he did release his discharge papers. So if the “short form” is good enough for Bush it is good enough for Obama.

[Totenkopf]

.....I can say right now, Texas needs to be on the list as it is impossible to get a copy of the original birth certificate for either my mother or step-father (County Court House Fires) and my birth certificate list my mother’s date of birth incorrectly. I’m pretty sure if we look close enough we can eliminate every state in the union..

 

 

that settles it.......I'm not voting for you if you run for president, pilgrim.

 

At this point, if we found out that the birthers' were somehow correct, I seriously doubt that the result would be anything other than invalidating a 2nd term run and a lot of political hot air and investigations into what did BO know and when did he know it. Such a revelation would likely only make him a lame duck 1 term president and remove any wind from his political sails. If you think political discourse is coarse now.....

[mimartin]

At this point, if we found out that the birthers' were somehow correct

How could they be proven correct when it has already been proven a fact that he was born in Hawaii? Giving them any benefit of the doubt is ridiculous. I love how people can make the most stupid comments with the facts of the case right before everyone eyes, yet people still want to give them some credibility. Oh, but they may be right this is all a evil conspiracy by the left who have been planning it since 1961. How did the know the baby would not grow up to be the next Ronald Reagan? Or is political party a genetic trait now that can be detected before birth?

 

The only way the birthers will ever prove anything is by hiring a better forger. If at first you don’t succeed try, try again.

[JediAthos]

I'm of the opinion that the surely the FBI, or Secret Service looked into this issue when it first came up if not before. I would be surprised to find out they had not....

 

As far as whether or not a "long form" needs to be produced...I've long thought that these "birthers" are simply clinging to this issue simply because their candidate didn't get elected and they need something to make themselves feel better.

[Tommycat]

You do not seriously believe that. Showing the short form birth certificate that is legally acceptable did not shut them up. Showing the birth announcement in the local paper did not shut them up.

 

Do like the attempt to make the lunatics the victims though.

 

Good point that nothing would satisfy the Birthers. If I somehow gave you the impression that I was trying to make the birthers look like the victims, I apologize. Honestly I feel that they hurt the image of the Right/Conservatives. They are an ugly part of the Right. It's more useful to point to them and say, "See how crazy the Right is, they refuse to accept that the birth certificate that we all use for any legal purpose is valid."

 

Again, at best it MAY shut them up. Or it may just make them switch to claiming it's forged.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

I want my own long-form Birth Certificate. The one I have doesn't satisfy me, as I do not really believe that I was born in Iowa, or that either of my parents had anything to do with my creation, or that I am really an earthling in the first place.

 

Never knew about long forms before all of this... Still don't care about them.

 

If the short form passed the legal burden, as mimartin has presented completely, end of story for the sane.

[mimartin]

Never knew about long forms before all of this... Still don't care about them.

Most states (at least the ones I have seen) do not have two forms of birth certificate. What I find even funnier is you cannot order the long form birth certificate in Hawaii. http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

If you order a birth certificate there is only one option and it will net you the short form.

 

Seriously everyone knows all you need to know is Name, Date of Birth, Place of Birth, Name of Mother and Name of Father. I don't know about any of you, but I have never been asked the name of the doctor that delivered me.

[Lord of Hunger]

As an independent leaning to the right, even I find the birther theory silly. That being said, Obama hasn't really certified his status as an American over the course of his campaign and the Presidency. His company is just simply too leftist and critical of the US for his own good, and some of the statements he's made doesn't help his image either.

 

We really need a President, irregardless of skin color, who is "American". This includes wearing the flagpin because quite frankly the President IS supposed to assert the national identity. Nationalism is important because national works and public prosperity sometimes isn't enough to make a country stand out.

[mimartin]

You are an American if you are born in America, born to an American parent or if you have become a naturalized American citizen. That is unless you renounce your American citizenship. Politics or religion HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CITIZENSHIP. You can be on the furthest edge of the left or the right and you would still be an American. You can also love your country and still be critical of it. It is my belief that the American idea is to always strive to make this country better. You can't get better without first seeing what is wrong.

 

Wow what is the American President wearing?

 

Although I see no reason any one would have to wear a flag to prove their love for the country. Just find it funny that people pay more attention to blogs instead of looking at the President them-self and I wonder why people cannot believe their own eyes on the birth certificate. It is because they are reading other people opinion on blog instead of checking the facts for themselves.

[Working Class Hero]

As an independent leaning to the right, even I find the birther theory silly.

That being said, Obama hasn't really certified his status as an American over the course of his campaign and the Presidency.

Er...huh? I think mimartin just proved that he has in fact done that...

 

 

His company is just simply too leftist and critical of the US for his own good, and some of the statements he's made doesn't help his image either.

So if somebody's a patriot, he's not allowed to honestly assess what's wrong with his country? He's just supposed to blindly cheerlead?

 

Nationalism is important because national works and public prosperity sometimes isn't enough to make a country stand out.

Exactly, delude your citizens and persuade them not to observe reality.

 

This includes wearing the flagpin because quite frankly the President IS supposed to assert the national identity.

 

Have you been watching Glen Beck too much?

 

....so the law doesn't matter as long as the person is deemed competent?

Not when the law is as irrelevant as this. Da prez has proven that he was born here, but this law should no longer be a requirement for presidency.

[purifier]

Not when the law is as irrelevant as this. Da prez has proven that he was born here, but this law should no longer be a requirement for presidency.

 

 

Now that would be a serious mistake and would cause more problems for this country then you'd ever want in your lifetime. If you do away with the requirement of this law, then everyone would regret it for generations to come.

[Working Class Hero]

Why do you think that?

[mimartin]

Now that would be a serious mistake and would cause more problems for this country then you'd ever want in your lifetime. If you do away with the requirement of this law, then everyone would regret it for generations to come.

How do you figure?

 

1st it would take generations for someone that was not a born in American, but obtained American citizenship through immigration to even have a chance at being elected president. 2nd How is someone that actually had to study and work at becoming a citizen less of an American than someone that happened to be born here? 3rd If your one of your parents served in the military and you were born while they were stationed overseas then why should you not be allowed to be President? Personally I do not see where being born in the USA makes anyone superior to any other American citizen. Even more I do not see how we would possibly regret repealing a law that in antiquated. It made sense 100 years ago, but today with military bases all over the world, diplomatic stationed all over the world and with Americans involved in international business all over the world it makes no sense. Not all of our best and brightest are born on American soil.

 

God I wish George H Bush would have been stationed in China in 1946.

[Tommycat]

How do you figure?

 

1st it would take generations for someone that was not a born in American, but obtained American citizenship through immigration to even have a chance at being elected president. 2nd How is someone that actually had to study and work at becoming a citizen less of an American than someone that happened to be born here? 3rd If your one of your parents served in the military and you were born while they were stationed overseas then why should you not be allowed to be President? Personally I do not see where being born in the USA makes anyone superior to any other American citizen. Even more I do not see how we would possibly regret repealing a law that in antiquated. It made sense 100 years ago, but today with military bases all over the world, diplomatic stationed all over the world and with Americans involved in international business all over the world it makes no sense. Not all of our best and brightest are born on American soil.

 

God I wish George H Bush would have been stationed in China in 1946.

Um mimartin, I think you are mistaken about the American Soil part If you were born in a military base, you are born on American Soil. All military stations are, like embassies, American soil.

 

But that was the point of the question. Someone who has worked hard to become a citizen in many cases worked harder to become an American citizen and may even care more about the USA than a natural born citizen, in my opinion, deserves the shot at being the President.

[Totenkopf]

Have you been watching Glen Beck too much?

 

Thought that was more Hannity's bag pre-election.

 

Not when the law is as irrelevant as this. Da prez has proven that he was born here, but this law should no longer be a requirement for presidency.

 

 

Unfortunately, the law's relevant till it's overturned or amended. But I think the TC is quite correct in his observation that many naturalized immigrants often have a greater concern for their new found country than do the natives.

 

The only way the birthers will ever prove anything is by hiring a better forger. If at first you don’t succeed try, try again.

 

 

Maybe they should contact Dan Rather.

 

As to the the whole birther thing

...I've long thought that these "birthers" are simply clinging to this issue simply because their candidate didn't get elected and they need something to make themselves feel better.

This pretty much applies both to the hilary supporters and anyone else caught up in their dissaffection w/BO.

 

 

@mim--the "if..." statement is merely a hypothetical. I don't believe anything will ever come of it anyway. Was only positing what the likely outcome of their "fantasy" would look like if it were somehow proven real, not its validity or lack thereof. The "birthers" are a democrat creation that has cross-contaminated some on the other side.