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Mission: Bring LF Back to Life


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It's certainly fascinating to look back on that, plus see all the people that contributed to that thread that have been banned since then lol


Wow. I really have been gone a long time. I thought I'd get banned long before any of them would get the chop.


This is a really weird kind of nostalgia.


On a side note, there's definitely an ebb and flow with any forum. I remember what brought me here was trying to figure out a modding error with Kotor, then that quickly got out of control and I stayed (then disappeared).


I'm sure once the next major SW-related milestone is released, the forum will have life and vitality breathed back into it. Right now, it looks just like we have a skeleton-crew keeping the forums alive, but there is still a community.


Even if that community is using urluckyday's third arm, which has far more evolutionary advantages than just using two arms.


Or one arm and a hook.


Or two arms and a third arm with a hook.

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Wall of text comment on whatever caught my eye, as Lynk asked for feedback elsewhere.


@ The Doctor: I'm curious... where are these other forums that have complete transparency when it comes to moderation where the moderators activities are public for the entire world to see? I would actually like to have links posted to these forums because you make it sound as if this is a common thing even when I have never in my life have seen any web community run in this manner.


The SCP Foundation ( http://scp-wiki.net/ -- too lazy to remember how to do URL coding properly for now) is one such web community. The admin site is linked. Although even in this case, we have a secret IRC chat attached. But yes, every decision and disciplinary action are publicly viewable. As is a large portion of the discussion.


Granted, though, this is a much smaller community; it's Internet Popular but the actual size of the community is small, much smaller than these forums in their heyday; and those who even pay enough attention to know about the admin site comprise a smaller group. And while non-staff users can SEE everything, they can't comment (except to send staff private messages). Plus we have a tradition of being really harsh (the site doubles as a writing workshop), so it's less of a leap. But it might be of interest regardless.


(er, edit for clarity: I am an admin there.)




I can't speak to how this forum was run, but I can speak to the moderation fights you mentioned, since I was part of them. (Sometimes the subject of them.) And while most of those tiny communities are dead, well... many still lurk, and you might encounter some unnecessary drama out of nowhere if you enact a sweeping change, enact new moderation policies & moderators to tiny sub-communities and/or erase those sub-communities entirely [in non-archived form at least]... without first talking to whoever's left, and not just in the TOR forums where these discussions are being had.


That aside, it's obviously time for change, and reform, regardless. Most of the people who firmly resisted before are either gone, or are probably willing to see that LF has been dead for so long that even iffy changes are better than none at all -- and if they don't, the onus is on them to prove otherwise. Whereas before, the onus was on you.




Also, another side note: If y'all want a political discussion section, it should at least be one sitewide forum to defuse the drama. a little bit, not attached to a particular community but with everyone else piling in from elsewhere.


That said, as much as I prefer having places to discuss these topics, I do also recall that the highest drama bull**** always originated from the debate arenas. The Senate Chambers and... well, you know. Whereas while other communities had their drama, it almost never reached the same level -- and if it did, it didn't last as long. I honestly think Lynk's cancer metaphor was a good one...


The alternative would be to figure out a better way of running them. And that's no easy question. Hell, the same rules may no longer apply any longer! Just look at the gaming community overall; last decade hot topics wouldn't even come up unless someone deliberately pushed for them, such as religion or politics. But now you have people freaking the hell out about gender or sexuality or race topics which used to be stuffed under a rug -- and now are openly discussed and relevant. Mark my words, those will be discussed unless you forbid the topics entirely -- but you don't want to go the way of, say, the Bioware forums, described as "toxic" by game writers themselves! And then you'll get the "hate spiral" that last decade could at least be partially contained to debate forums, except this time, not so much... You get the point.


But on the other other other hand, it still wouldn't be as bad as full-blown debate forums.


Also, I think some of us are conflating "debate forums" with "place for serious topics". You can have topics with personal advice on serious issues and such and still ban political/religious debate. Yes, that's limiting, but it's a possible compromise.




Consolidation is ... fairly mandatory, but it would really have to be done cautiously. Archival could go a long way, but it won't go all the way. I mean... just take the XWA and RSN forums. Two separate communities. I'd say at minimum that would mean you'd need one sub-forum for each, under "Classic Gaming" or whatnot. Except... wait, the RP communities of those forums (what's left of them) are a separate, distinct sub-community using two boards! (Granted, it's still mostly dead, but I'm using it as an example.)


Is this taken into consideration, or not? I could see cases for both. And even in dead communities there may be unexpected life, and you want to harness that life by luring the lurkers into becoming members again... "seed" members in a new generation... not alienating them by surprise and ensuring that they will never come back.


Although I guess an easy-ish solution would be to just talk to remaining staff & remaining members and see what they think. Unless I'm misunderstanding the restructure proposal, of course.




Haha if you think that some of your posts are a reflection on a lack of maturity, imagine what it feels like for this 23-year-old to look back at some of the posts he made when he was 13. /facepalm lol


Tell me about it. Jesus. I was 15 when I joined in 2001, and I'm 28 now. >_< (And this was my first ever forum -- well, Rogue Squadron was.)

Edited by Redwing
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To be fair, I think one of those bans was voluntary and another was a long time coming.


Some observations...


For any part I may have played in any injustice anyone feels they have suffered at my hands, I am very sorry, I have always sought to be fair and just, but when I have failed you do have my apologies.


Personally I'd be happy to post why an individual member has been banned, in fact I think it in hindsight it would of been a good idea to have a banned member list and why and how long the ban was to clarify what had happened.


Often how a member posts in forum can be very different to private correspondence, I've never banned anyone for how they have spoken to me in PM's but have had a number of very nasty messages sent. Usually those members would eventually do something nasty in forum to another member.


With regards Kavars, people forget why it was formed which is mainly we kept getting serious topics started here in Ahto, and so to keep Ahto light we created Kavars for the more serious discussion, so it was something at least a section of the SWK community wanted for they were the ones who started political and philosophical threads.


As for Drama, my favourite thread ever! - http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=174418

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I don't see the post I made last night. It wasn't TL;DR and I'm pretty sure it didn't violate the rules. Why did the staff nerf it? :wonder:


Oh, probably because I am a yay vote for giving certain subforum sections the iron sleeping pill.


Well don't worry, I'm sure plenty of members disagree with me. :devsmoke:


To reiterate my thoughts regarding KC and the Senate...

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I honestly think it should be relegated at the least. I know some people won't like that. I can think of at least one staff member who'd hate it, in fact.


I have no problem with serious discussion. It honestly should be about either technical, personal, or REAL problem solving.


One idea could be it's put into its own place.


Maybe give it free-for-all with a mandatory disclaimer that pops up every time you enter like /b of 4chan. Only the most heinous of stuff is deleted. The staff otherwise don't get involved.


Or maybe just keep as-is and outright ban all political discussion as well as threads where it's half as much about a problem as it is about fingerpointing and blame-gaming a political side or other. Even if it's data driven, that doesn't make the subject not a pedantic finger pointing/blame gaming thread. Validated or not, it's what makes people hate each other.


Or simply let it burn in hell and get rid of it.


With all my snark, why I'd be fine with any of that.


Now onto the fun stuff.


I am interested in making a LF guide to professions/crew skills in SWTOR. It would need a bit of input from other members, though, as I play infrequently.


After viewing the numerous helpful contributions Darth Parametric made in his posts, and the guide Mav is working on for jedi shadow/sith assassin tanking, I'm impressed and honestly think LF members still have perspective and something unique to contribute that would get us recognition on the net for this game.



I guess I would not mind making a server hardware/financial contribution to LF if it was within my range to do so.



I know you mostly all are aware of the Vader's 501st legion...so am I the only guy here who likes cosplay?


I know others like swordsmanship here--Am I one of only two people here who like IRL crafting custom lightsabers and other electronic/costume props? How 'bout people who do electronics expertise for this sort of thing?


Is there any interest in video production?



We have plenty of compuer hardware experts here. I definitely think this is something we should cotinue, though maybe put in a forum jump from the general tech to other subforums where technical issues arise and vice versa to the general tech for issues non game specific.


Just some ideas.

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I don't see the post I made last night. It wasn't TL;DR and I'm pretty sure it didn't violate the rules. Why did the staff nerf it? :wonder:


Oh, probably because I am a yay vote for giving certain subforum sections the iron sleeping pill.


Because there are two threads, and you actually posted in the other one; it's still there but with the politics subforum discussion snipped (by Lynk).

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