Triumvirate Lords Of The Third Dimension

[Sithspecter]

Hmmm... I got pinched by a crab really bad yesterday.

[TriggerGod]

I had to sit around with a bunch of kindergardeners yesterday for my sis. I felt like I was being pinched by crabs.

[Quanon]

Crabs?

 

Nice......

[Sithspecter]

Crabs are no fun, I got four deep cuts on one thumb. Kinda hurts a lot.

 

@Dis: Try hex editing the model. You can change the names, and even the textures without disturbing the whole model.

[Quanon]

Sounds nasty SS.

 

There's a beach in Texas ?

[Sithspecter]

Well, there are beaches in Texas, but I'm in Alabama. And it was very, very nasty. But at least there is a 3G network here.

[Quanon]

Alabama, did you move, without me knowing

[magnusll]

Hello, and thanks for the invitation.

 

So, I guess you're looking for some additional functions for Kaurora

Write me a line on what would you like to have, and I'll see what can be done.

[TheProphet]

Oh Magnusll, Having you back is such a wonderful thing. I think the main thing that I myself would like to see from KAurora is the ability to work with real lights, rather than just the basic AuroraDLights, which only a maximum of 3 may be active at one time , I noticed that a lot of the lights in Kotor have the ability to strobe, as well as have other effects, so I know they use something other than the AuroraDLights. Also, camera collision maps would be wondrous as well. Not that I take the current tool fro granted or anything, it works like a charm .

 

Glad to see you back.

 

-Doc

[Quanon]

Hey, Magnus!

 

Great to see you again

 

Not sure how demanding this is... but it would be great if Kaurora could handle the other models aswell. I mean the weapons, guns and placeables.

 

Ofcourse Doc put up some good pointers

[disbeliever]

animations

[glovemaster]

Write me a line on what would you like to have, and I'll see what can be done.

Ah, you'll regret saying that...

 

Second lighting ^ Q's always complaining

[magnusll]

As far as I know, light processing in Kotor is based on Auroralights and lightmaps. There is no other "secret" node type as I can easily see all the types used in all of the original game areas and I can't remember seeing a nodetype value which I couldn't identify.

 

Also, Auroralights have a rather complex structure; the one I'm using in KAurora is the following one:

 

           private float _FlareRadius;
           private UInt32[]_Unknown1 = new UInt32[3];  // = 0?
           private UInt32 _OffsetsToFlareSizes;
           private UInt32 _FlareSizesCount;
           private UInt32 _DuplicateFlareSizesCount;
           private UInt32 _OffsetsToFlarePositions;
           private UInt32 _FlarePositionsCount;
           private UInt32 _DuplicateFlarePositionsCount;
           private UInt32 _OffsetsToFlareColorShifts;
           private UInt32 _FlareColorShiftsCounts;
           private UInt32 _DuplicateFlareColorShiftsCounts;
           private UInt32 _OffsetsToFlareTextureNamesOffsets;
           private UInt32 _FlareTexturesNamesOffsetsCount;
           private UInt32 _DuplicateFlareTexturesNamesOffsetsCount;
           private UInt32 _LightPriority;
           private UInt32 _AmbientOnly;
           private UInt32 _DynamicType;
           private UInt32 _AffectDynamic;
           private UInt32 _Shadow;
           private UInt32 _GenerateFlare;
           private UInt32 _FadingLight;

 

The strobe effect, as far as I can see and given the lack of "secret" light types, is either generated by some particular flare or some special kind of animated emitter put in the same place as the light.

The "max 3 light for model" limitations ought to be at least partially avoidable by the use of the LightPriority parameter.

 

Other node types: at the time, I had collected the info needed to handle all types of nodes used in Kotor (except lightsaber's ones which still have too many unknown fields to be really implemented). Currently I've forgot lot of things , but I do know how to find all the needed info again. But it does require a lot of time to code everything.

[TheProphet]

The "max 3 light for model" limitations ought to be at least partially avoidable by the use of the LightPriority parameter.

 

Thats interesting, I would like to know how I might bypass the limitations with this field, as I have tried every method I could with it. It seemed to me that the Light Priority field set which lights held the priority over others of being lit, not really setting how many lights can be on at one time in an area. So if there are 4 lights in an area, the 3 lights with the highest priority would be on, while the lower lights would be off.

 

Though I know you know much more about this than me . This is just what I have found to be a problem

 

Also, how might we affect these flare parameters? I know that there are a few flare parameters in max, but they don't quite work, it asks you to select a texture, and if you dont, then none of the numbers you put in stay there when you select something else. I think the flare effect is for a "Lens Flare" effect, the kind you see when you look at the sun, not so much a light emitting effect that would generate the strobe i had mentioned earlier. This is all very confusing

[Sithspecter]

I'd like an emitter properties file, where I can load and save emitter properties, so I don't have to do the same one over and over.

[magnusll]

Thats interesting, I would like to know how I might bypass the limitations with this field, as I have tried every method I could with it. It seemed to me that the Light Priority field set which lights held the priority over others of being lit, not really setting how many lights can be on at one time in an area. So if there are 4 lights in an area, the 3 lights with the highest priority would be on, while the lower lights would be off.

 

Well yes, that's the basic idea. I'm not sure if there's a specific value there which forces the rendering engine to compute the lights anyway, even if there are more than 3. But I thought it could be made dynamic? I.e. you can only make 3 lights reach any specific spot in the model at any given time, but you can use as many lights as you want and they will all be rendered in different part of the area. If that's not the case, then Bioware-made areas must use some other technique. OR, maybe the "max # of lights rendered" is one of those sneaky fields I've not yet decoded. Interesting thought...

 

Strobes: no clue honestly, as I said the first two ideas which came to mind were either some special flare effect or some kind of animated emitter "blocking" the light at fast intervals to achieve the stroboscopic effect. Can you point me at a bioware-made area model using the effect? The more of them in the model the better, as I could look for repeating patterns in the data structure.

 

I'd like an emitter properties file, where I can load and save emitter properties, so I don't have to do the same one over and over.

 

Can be done

[TheProphet]

Can you point me at a bioware-made area model using the effect?

 

Tatooine landing platform, there is a red light next to the ebon hawk that strobes, i noticed it a while ago while playing silveredge's mod. I'm not sure if this helps, but I remember that in editing modules in Neverwinter Knights, which uses the aurora engine, lights weren't part of the model itself but were added in the same manner as placeables. The lights in there had properties that you could set to make it strobe, and it just seems to me like the lights in kotor follow the same guidelines : /.

 

The way I have it right now is I set all the lights to priority 1, they dont all render at once, but when the player moves close to the others, they turn on, while the others behind the player turn off. It works for now, but I would like to be able to use more than 3 lights per room. I too was thinking that there must be some kind of field where they set how many AuroraDLights can be on at one time. I dont think that kind of thing would be hard coded.

 

Edit: I take it back, a much better module to be looking at is 001EBO, the first module of KOTOR2, there's at least a dozen flashing lights in there, everywhere there is a computer console there is a flashing light of some color, that would be the best place to check it out.

[Quanon]

The lowercity of Taris has a couple of sections with flickering lights.

 

What I discovered is that the lights also get a sort of priority depending on their radius.

 

It doesn't matter in what model part it is, an example is one of my latests models:

 

I cutted up in about 10 parts going from modelname_01a to _01m or something.

Each roompart has its own walkmesh, got it succesfully cut

 

So I thought, from earlier experiments, that the Max 3 lights was on the walkmesh.

So 3 lights max per walkmesh part.

 

That doesn't hold up really.... The larger lights ( radius) in my skybox model overrule all other smaller lights I've put in.

 

Most annoying is can setup my 3ds Max to render lightmaps, I know how to setup my meshes to get them. But NWmax can't/ doesn't export out any indication of a second texture channel on the meshes....

 

Channels are set by the UVW-map modifiers in Max. So each mesh needs 2 sets of UVWs. Though a problem still remains, the lightmap of each mesh is still seperate.

 

That would mean you would need Photoshop to make them into one file, then edit the second UVW to match the composite of all the lightmaps.

[magnusll]

Most annoying is can setup my 3ds Max to render lightmaps, I know how to setup my meshes to get them. But NWmax can't/ doesn't export out any indication of a second texture channel on the meshes....

 

Could you provide me with a copy of the scene you're using to create the lightmap, and the procedure to recreate it?

 

I know how lightmaps work (at least for Kotor I, still have to check some things for II) and it would in fact be pretty easy to add the code to import them. But as you said, it's impossible to export them because NWmax only exports the main texture channel and the lightmap is being stored in a different one. I could write an add-on procedure for 3dsMax exporting the needed info, but I need to find out where and how Max is storing it and to do that I need to trace the process while it's running (hence the need to recreate it for myself instead of just getting the scene with the prerendered lightmap).

[Quanon]

Okay, I'll setup a scéne for you and I'll write a file with the steps.

 

There is one annoying aspect, my older Max 09 version can't show two channels at the same time. So often you can't really view the effects.

 

Newer versions have better material options to support these kind of things, they work a bit like photoshop layers. But I don't have Max 2008 or 2009, nor I'm to sure if NWmax support these versions.

 

Anyway I'll setup that scéne for you.

 

 

Check your PM box MAg!

[TriggerGod]

believe me Q, 2009 supports nwmax, so I'm guessing both 2008 and 2010 both do as well.

Anyways, would moving walkmeshes be capable by the greatness of a new KAurora?

[magnusll]

Anyways, would moving walkmeshes be capable by the greatness of a new KAurora?

 

Ehr... what's a moving walkmesh?

[TheProphet]

I think he means for like elevators, or moving platforms. Seems like it would be more of a futuristic goal than a now one though, Id like to get the basics knuckled down first before moving onto things that are more complex. Namely, being able to walk through one of my modules without the camera flying through the walls .

[Quanon]

I don't think thats possible TG.

 

The game would otherwise have this in some of its modules. I think Mass Effect is actually the first of Bioware games to show elavators.

[TriggerGod]

thats a good point Q, but sometimes modders can think of and possibly do achievements that the original developers didn't do. Like, in JA, Hapslash was able to animate all 20000+ frames to make a good robe/cape model for his Count Dooku and other Episode 3 models, while Ravensoft didn't do any robe/capes in JA or JO (that I can remember. Maybe Marka Ragnos had one, but I can't remember)