Dirth Vedar Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 3.08 Gameplay Will Jedi Outcast have an auto-map feature like the original Jedi Knight? Jedi Outcast will not have an auto-map feature. The dynamic nature of auto-mapping is not intrinsically a feature of the game engine and the design of the game is such that the need for an auto-map feature was determined to be minimal. ------------ hmm... the design of the game is such that the need for auto-map is minimal, does that mean the SP player levels will be largely linear. Sounds like you won't be able to stray too much. Or maybe there's big exit signs, and go this way signs all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 er no............ i think they just mean it isn't part of the engine and they can't be bothered putting it in. just because there's no map doesn't mean it's linear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowbieOne Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I never even bothered with the map. What fun is a game, if you know where you are going? Glad to hear we will be completing the game the old-fashoined way, by looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by SlowbieOne I never even bothered with the map. What fun is a game, if you know where you are going? Glad to hear we will be completing the game the old-fashoined way, by looking. i was about to say that...We must move forwards not backwards or forward but sidewards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I would have prefered having the automap feature specially for mp I guess well have to get used to play without it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Not having an automap is not necessarily a bad thing...unless they put nothing in it's place. Take Force Seeing, for example...it hasn't even been mentioned as one of the returning Force powers. Is it now likely that power will not feature in the game at all? If that is the case, it is going to have a major effect on how MP is played, if nothing else. I understand a lot of hardcore players use Seeing in tandem with automap not only to discover the proximity of opponents, but also the locations of their team-mates, etc. If these features are simply absent from the game, then some of the things that made JK different in terms of gameplay could potentially be lost...and it runs the risk of becoming simply a standard FPS. Although it's still early days, it does sound as if JKII's MP mode is going to conform much more to Q3's, and that is not necessarily a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I think you hit the nail right on the head, StormHammer. Although I expect JKII to look beautiful, some of the things I've been discovering is making the game seem to be the successor to JK only in name. It's almost as if the developers have not actually played the original Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith add-on, otherwise many of these issues would be self-apparent. One can not write a sequel to a book, without first having read the original. Hopefully our concernes will prove to be unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirth Vedar Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 though I don't mind not having automap, it's the following statement which troubles me: "the design of the game is such that the need for an auto-map feature was determined to be minimal." What does that mean? the design of the game is such so that automap is not needed?? Does that mean there'll be no way for a player to get lost in a level? If so, how are they going to pull this off? Making the level linear, you go from point A to point B, or what? How complex can the levels be (not how long, but how complex), if automapping is not needed to figure out where you are? I may be reading a little too much into what the FAQ is saying, but it still troubles me. I am hoping that the levels will be a little more open with different areas to explore. Even if it means getting lost without the automap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus4873 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I hated automap. I also hated getting lost in the levels so I had to use the damn thing. I am not saying that the levels should be very linear, but a bit more linear than the JK ones. If I want to play a game where I have to find my way out of the level then I will buy myself a maze game. I want to enjoy gameplay, interaction with characters/enemies and goals - not endlesly search for a hidden door in a huge level. My 2 cents Morph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Most FPS games get on fine without automaps these days, don;t they? I shouldn't read TOO much into their statement (Raven rarely give it straight, but that doesn't mean it's ALWAYS bad news). I think they just meant that the game plays fine without the map, so they have designed it without people using a map in mind- so why bother putting it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanpilou Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 i don't really mind for a minimap.........on half-life there is no mini-map and the levels aren't at all linear and it was more realistic like that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Morpheus or sanpilou have you played JK multiplayer? that was when the automap was useful I agree with StormHammer I dont want a JK clone with good graphics, but I prefer that to a completly different games, that plays just like any FPS but you can throw lightning and grip people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 automap was used in ff games to see a ton of things. Where yer opponents were, what they were shooting, how fast the projectile was moving at you, when items respawned, what items yer opponent had gotten, where yer teammates were, what they were doing etc. You could watch an entired ff game with seeing, sitting in the corner looking at a wall but totally aware of what was going on. Seeing was the closest thing to "the force" that was in JK, gonna be ridiculous if they don't have it. They'd better have somthin better. Biggest part of the force was a greater awareness of what was going on around you, not the goofy lightning and choking. They'd better have a damn good replacement for that element of the force or im going to cry. Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 So we created sets of light side, dark side and neutral powers, which included adding some brand new powers over the single player game as well as resurrecting some classic ones Thats from Knotes 3 What a nice read, more powers besides the few already annouced One of those new powers could be seeing, maybe implemented in a completly different way that it was in JK, because of the lack of the automap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Well, I agree with the sentiment that Force See in combination with the so-called automap was one of the primary differences that set Jedi Knight: MotS apart from a typical first-person-shooter. When used together, one could view all beings in the map. I do not exagerate when I say that I used this power over 90% of the time, and not having this ability in JKII will be a huge disappointment for veteran players. Having said that, I imagine that it could still be possible for Raven to have implemented Force See without an automap, but I don't know how. Kyle already had this ability in previous games, so it won't make sense for him to have lost this very basic and useful power inn JKII. Again, I hope this deep concern proves to be unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolo_JCS Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 wolf2 didn't have automap, neither does quake III i think? might have something to do with the engine maybe? talk about linear, the entire idea of an automap is linear... its a blueprint of the map... The maps in wolf2 have distinct features in each area, ie. colored lighting, sounds, dead bodies, skulls, so you can recognize where you're going and where've you been. Obviously this will be a techniqe added into jk2 therefore no more autmapping. 3 cheers for no automap! Hip hip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Thats exactly what it says in the FAQ Bartolo The dynamic nature of auto-mapping is not intrinsically a feature of the game engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolo_JCS Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I just thought i'd say that cuz i know people that are bummed out about that, I don't understand why.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Originally posted by Bartolo_JCS I just thought i'd say that cuz i know people that are bummed out about that, I don't understand why.. sorry but I dont know what the hell that means maybe I didnt understand you other post nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolo_JCS Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 estan tristes por no tener automap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 ok gracias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However, I am not pleased with the apparent omission of the automap in JKII. No, not because I want the normal, traditional automap from the days of Doom. Hardly. As I've reiterated several times previously, I only want the automap for the sole purpose of using Force See as experienced so masterfully in Jedi Knight: MotS. The distinction should be clear to anyone who has played JK/MotS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Four star Force sight plus automap in JK/MotS made you the master of your surroundings. You could see everything; item locations, enemies, even projectiles...it's pretty awesome. I hope JKII will be able to make up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 It is confirmed in the FAQ there will be no overhead map. ... Reminds of the good old days gone by... many first person shooters had an automap feature. JK/MotS, the doom series, Outlaws, Heretic, etc. The overhead map will be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 huh?you replied to me Vag? I said that I wanted automap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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