digl Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 inspired by the discussion in the Jedi Knotes #3 ! thread, I decided to start this poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 I preferred the MotS version of Force power selection, because it a) affords you more choice and b) is more in keeping with official Star Wars canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 I'll second that motion, ed_silvergun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi Kwan Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Originally posted by ed_silvergun I preferred the MotS version of Force power selection, because it a) affords you more choice and b) is more in keeping with official Star Wars canon. Just curious; how is choosing both light and dark force powers keeping with Starwars Cannon? I cant think of too many "dark only" force powers from the movie aside from lightning and grip which i dont remember any jedi using....though i have only read a few SW expanded universe novels, so maybe that is what I am missing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 2, 2002 Author Share Posted January 2, 2002 Luke grips a gamorrean in RotJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 well, it may be grip, but i though it was always more like push, or maybe a combo, because when you grip someone, they dont get pushed back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Most common opinion is(and I agree, partially) that it doesn't make you either good or bad, what kind of powers you possess, but rather how you use them; RotJ didn't exactly show, did Luke grip those gamorreans(there were two of them) to death, but I doubt it. Still, lightning, for example, is something so powerful and painful, that I don't think Jedis train themselves to fry people to death; they usually use "neutral" powers to defense themselves. Besides, whole idea of lightning might have originally meant only for pure evil guys like Emperor, who are rotten to the end, and not as a casual power that every Force user can use with "little" training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 2, 2002 Author Share Posted January 2, 2002 Its pretty tight now But the defenders of the JK style are not posting who voted for that? post why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirth Vedar Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 I voted for JK style. I don't know, I think it adds a little more depth, a little more differentiation. I am not oppose to having like a major skill and minor skill, like partial cross over, So if you're light, you can use all the light skills, but can still use some of the dark skills moderately well. I think that'll add a nice balance. For MOTS, it was just a little dizzying to choice from whatever. It feels a little too unstructured, it's true that the force is not really good or evil, just how you use it, but still, I feel weird being master the most powerful forces of both sides without any real constraints other than limited number of stars... but that's just my opinion. I think it'll be nice if dark jedi can use heal, and light jedi use grip, but to have a dark jedi use force protect or those really high level skills... I don't know. More of a gut thing than actually logical argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA ellor Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 jedi knight:ion: jedi knight:holosid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Originally posted by Obi Kwan Just curious; how is choosing both light and dark force powers keeping with Starwars Cannon? I cant think of too many "dark only" force powers from the movie aside from lightning and grip which i dont remember any jedi using....though i have only read a few SW expanded universe novels, so maybe that is what I am missing... Exactly. There aren't any "dark only" powers per se. Without wishing to get into a philosophical discussion on how nothing is innately good or bad in itself, I think this point has been made by myself, Vagabond and a few others elsewhere on these forums. Force powers are divided up for the purposes of games such as Jedi Knight but in reality they fall into three broad categories: "control (the manipulation of one's internal Force strength), sense (detection of the Force in the external world), and alter (manipulation of matter with the Force)" - Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia. For example, Grip and Push aren't two different powers. They're simply different uses of the Jedi's ability to manipulate matter. In one case the Force is being used to exert pressure around a throat, in the other it is being used (rather more imprecisely) to exert pressure on someone's body to send them flying backwards. Jedi and Sith alike can control the Force strength, sense the Force and use it to manipulate matter. They simply use these abilities in different ways and to different ends. This choice is one for each individual and can often be altered (Anakin turns from the Light path to the Dark, for example, and Obi-Wan comes very close to letting his anger and sorrow over Qui-Gon's death consume him during his final battle with Maul). To my mind the MotS system of Force power selection reflected this more accurately than the JK one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 ^ ditto that. I think that explains what I was going to say. Cheers Ed... wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirth Vedar Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 I agree with the idea that some force powers are good or bad, and yes, grip really is just a variation of push, but still if what determines whether you're a light or dark jedi is by how you use your force powers right? Have you seen anyone other than the emporer use lightning to fry their opponent? Light jedi probably try not to shock their opponents to death because it's cruel and unusual punishment. So while I have no objection in saying any jedi should be allow to use any force, I do believe that your "alignment" determines how good you will be with those forces, since you don't get to practice with force powers which doesn't fit your alignment Afterall, practice makes perfect right? If a light jedi heals people all day with force heal, shouldn't he become a master of that skill? Vs. a dark jedi who may toast people for a living, I believe a dark jedi should also have the same kind of mastery of their set of skills. So that's why I still think a character should have an alignment that determines what proficiency they can achieve with which skill. So if you're a light jedi, you can use force protection to the max, while you may only attain moderate level with the grip. Maybe because you believe choking people to death is wrong, so you don't do it often enough to get the chance to master it... whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi Kwan Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Very well put, ed_silvergun. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Definitely prefer MOTS style. Pigeonholing you into 'good and evil' based on your powers was weird, and it also was silly that Dark Side couldn't Heal or Persuade and Light Sude couldn't throw. And Raven's explanation for splitting them makes very little sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 I like the MotS method but a few powers should be only for a side, like lightning or, maybe, absorb. So I don't really know what to vote. A middle choice? If there are for example 12 powers I'd want 2 light powers 2 dark powers and 8 neutral powers or 1+1+10, just to continue the cool conflict between the light and the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 7, 2002 Author Share Posted January 7, 2002 I also thaught about something in the middle, but I didnt include that option, to see the results based only on those two options based on the tie, I also think something in the middle would be the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Originally posted by ed_silvergun I preferred the MotS version of Force power selection, because it a) affords you more choice and b) is more in keeping with official Star Wars canon. Me also. Any light jedi can use force powers like lightning etc, as long as you use them for defence. They only become dark powers when you use them for evil. Like when you killed the civilians and got your force charge taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 For all of you who prefer Force powers to be separated, let me as you a question - if a Police Officer uses Handgun Type A, and a criminal uses Handgun Type B, does this make Handgun Type A Good or Light because a good guy uses it, while Handgun Type B is Bad or Dark because a bad guy uses it? What if both the Police Officer and the criminal used the same type of handgun? Then what? The Force is really nothing more than a tool, no different than a handgun. Police Officers have handguns, but they use them for good, while criminals also have handguns, but they use them for evil. However, any model of handgun, like any Force power, is neither good nor bad - it doesn't do anything on its own - it must be used by an individual(s) toward a certain end, which may be of good or evil intent. For those of you familiar with SAT questions: A Handgun is to a Police Officer or Criminal, what the Force is to a Jedi or Sith Lord. I mean heck, I could use a stuffed bunny to commit evil if I really wanted to, but that wouldn't make the stuffed bunny evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 so eloquent vag, i think you just force persuaded me. wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Originally posted by wardz so eloquent vag, i think you just force persuaded me. Me too Now I wish I'd voted for MotS-like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 I didnt need to be persuaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 I (like many) had a hard time choosing ... in many ways I preferred the MotS style, but feel that there needs to be some 'fundamental' powers, then neutrals (higher level), and then some more specifically light and dark. In JK/MotS, grip is a killing force ... sometimes it is fun in the Bespin level to kill civilians with grip. However, to make it more neutral, I'd like to see it apply only as long as you held a key - you could weaken someone up, but not kill them - perhaps it would have some impact on 'morale' ... I tend to be a 'light' Jedi (as opposed to a lightweight Jedi ;-), so I would never see myself using lightning - never used destruction. Absorb is a good light power. All that said ... the story of Kyle is one of walking that fine line ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 It is still possible that there will be a certain amount of power seperation even in the films. As I have mentioned before, it is possible that Lightning is an Emperor only power. Someone pointed out in the Knotes 3 thread that I was wroing because of the recent trailer, in which Anakin appears to be hit by Force Lightning- I'd be hesistant about being TOO certain about that right now. But we will see. But even if Dooku DOEDS use Lightning in the new film, it would still make it a Dark Side only power, in the same way that the Ghost Trick- no matter what the secret behind that turns out to be (and beleive me, it is debated enough)- is something that is only for good guys. But in general, I agree with the 'Force is a tool' thing. Absolutely. It is morally neutral, especially when you are just messing around with telekinesis. Lightning may be something a little different. Though I would imagine that the sort of destructive emotions that power the Dark Side would make a Dark Jedi BETTER at using the Force to kill, while the more passive good guys, with their calm and peaceful minds, would be better at the more passive powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 As I said before, I'm inclined to go with the idea of all force powers being available to everyone...and it's how you use them that determines light or dark side. However, the inherent problem with games like JK, and it's sequel, is that you are rarely given the opportunity not to kill your opponents, in either SP or more especially MP. It doesn't matter if you use Push, Grip, Lightning, Pull or any other force power...because the game mechanics demand that ultimately your opponent winds up dead. After all, that is the entire point of Deathmatch. Dead is dead, no matter how you get there, and the very act of killing should be the ultimate last resort for light-siders, IMHO. So, to enable a more marked differentiation between the use of Force powers for light or dark purposes, you would have to include the ability for light-siders to simply render their opponents unconscious, or incapacitate them in some other way that does not lead to death. You should receive points in an MP match every time you accomplish this...so instead of racking up frags, you increase the number of times you rendered your opponent powerless. For a lightsider, actually killing your opponent could go against you. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter what powers you have available to you, or whether you view yourself as light or dark side...because ultimately you are just killing all of your opponents. The only way it might make better sense is during teamplay, where a light side team goes up against a dark side team..so light siders are not killing other light siders, only dark siders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.