digl Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Originally posted by CaptainRAVE Well everyone else would see him move super quick. Thats not the difficult part, the difficult part is when a few people use it. It would create too much lag, but in time it will be possible Its not possible if the rest of the people see him move super quick, then they are moving at normal speed, and if they are moving at normal speed how will the speed user see them moving slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Originally posted by Sturmgewehr I hated JK's Force Speed. Saber Matches turned into Marathons. After you hit someone once, they'd force speed away to find health. So you'd have to Force Speed around chasing them, getting one chance to kill them when their Force Speed ran out and you caught up to them just before they hit Force Speed again. It was annoying (especially with 4 stars), in my experience anyways. I was hoping for just a quick burst of Speed, perhaps a seconds worth of increased speed instead of sustained transonic running. Sturmgewehr, Ill repost what I posted on the clan recruiting board when describing how force speed and force jump should be played in JK. None of this stuff about force speed being a marathon or whatever. you will find out that you're playing a incredibly fast paced game, where height and distance present no obstacle to reaching your destination. The shortcuts opened up by speed/jump* are amazing. Utilizing curves and bumps on the floors/walls of map, you are able to virtually fly using them as ramps. In the most popular sabers level, Battleground Jedi, there isn't a part that you cannot reach in a second, through speed-jump force use. You can dance around using the whole level as for cover, virtually leaping from behind one barrier to another across the map in mere seconds competely evading enemy fire. *=Speed/Jump... using Force Speed and Force Jump to basically do running jumps at mach 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I would prefer that Force Speed be identical in both SP and MP. Therefore, I would rather that SP Force Speed be the MP version. *sigh* It's times like this that I wish The Matrix or Max Payne had never been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Dont worry Vag, you could ask someone to do a mod for that, I dont think that would be too hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I really llike the idea of things slowing down around me in SP. It's more how a Jedi sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 What evidence do you have to support that statement? From the only visual evidence we have of Force Speed in The Phantom Menace, all it allowed Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan to do is to propel themselves away from the Destroyer Droids at an incredible rate. There is no evidence that it produced any temporal effect that would allow them to perform an increased number of actions per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 The evidence is the JK books ... it describes in detail how Kyle experienced Force Speed - and it is *exactly* like the way it is being done (at least being described) for SP. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 As you know, the Expanded Universe takes a back seat to George's interpretation of how his universe works. If what you suggest were true, then Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan could have easily defeated the Destroyer Droids by using Force Speed. But they didn't, which suggests that there is no temporal effect. The thing is that the familiar use of Force Speed was perfect, in my opinion, and this new bullet-time-ish Force Speed smells too much like a Matrix or Max Payne copy-cat. Plus, it's not consistent with MP, which I feel is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 books, blah! The movies are where it's at but i must admit i did lik ethe Thrawn Trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Originally posted by Vagabond As you know, the Expanded Universe takes a back seat to George's interpretation of how his universe works. If what you suggest were true, then Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan could have easily defeated the Destroyer Droids by using Force Speed. But they didn't, which suggests that there is no temporal effect. The thing is that the familiar use of Force Speed was perfect, in my opinion, and this new bullet-time-ish Force Speed smells too much like a Matrix or Max Payne copy-cat. Plus, it's not consistent with MP, which I feel is very important. read my post on 'unique things about jk' in reference to your reply tha concerns temporal effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbuckeye21 Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Just think about it Vag. If you're moving quickly, everything else would appear to be slow; it's all relative. The reasons the movies didn't show this is that they weren't taken from the Jedi's POV, methinks. I don't think it'll be exactly like Max Payne or the Matrix either. In MP, the only think that changed was that the world slowed, but somehow Max could move his aim amazing fast. With JO, everything will be the same for the character, but the reaction speed of the oponents will be slow, not you. I think it's the best way to go for both SP and MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 it is impossible for MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 hmm.. now just to give my opinion on this... if not rather late(altough I've noticed more people thinking the same about this in this thread).. I don't like that idea for Force Speed all that much in SP.. I mean the force power is named Force SPEED after all.. you're supposed to dash around like a rocket.. and NOT some Max Payne immitation where everything around you slows down while you're the only thing moving around decently. I want to get some sensation of increased speed.. not the opposite where everything but you is sluggish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Exactly, Pedro The Hutt. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that there is a temporal effect, and things do slow down during Force Speed, while to the Jedi time seems normal. Even if this were true, which is still debatable, consistency demands that Force Speed be implemented the same in both SP and MP. Having two completely different implementations of Force Speed is bizarre. Further, a valid argument can be made that having different Force Speeds will detract from MP because the Force Speed skill, or lack thereof, that has been learned in SP, will not transfer to MP. Let's face it - the Force Speed in SP is going to be easy compared to mastering Force Speed in MP. Like one of my favorite sayings goes: If you're gonna run with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbuckeye21 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by TUS_Tomcat it is impossible for MP I wouldn't say impossible. It could work like this: Someone enables force speed (SP version) and everyone else that didn't have force speed enabled would be trapped in molasses. (How the heck to do you spell that? ) If you ask me, that would fall under aggrivating rather than fun. You'd almost be force to enable force speed then. Thank you Raven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broode Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Consistency between SP and MP is NOT that important. Despite what you would like to believe, a good SP campaign is NOT just training for MP; its a completely different experience, like a good book or movie, with story and emotions and establishment of character. MP is like a game of football/soccer/whatever. The aim is to score as many points as you can, just to beat your opponent. Some people are still stuck back in DOOM times, trying to combine the genres. IT JUST DOESNT WORK. For the same reason, I see consitency between SP and MP as being not very important at all. For a very long time, I have wondered why developers didn't make things different in SP and MP, because some things only worked well in SP. Take the repeater in JK for example. Good in SP, almost completely usless in MP. It would make sence to alter the gun for MP, or even replace it entirely, but they didn't. Finally, someone is proposing to seperate SP and MP once and for all, and instantly you have these conservatists trying to combine them again. On a different note, it is possible to have slow mo Force Speed in MP, but it would cause a rip in the space-time continuum as time slows down for one person but not for anyone else that would ultimately destroy the universe. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I can give a rather funny example of this situation. Using the slowmo cheat in MotS and JK. If you turned it on in SP, and never turned it off, you'd experience that effect in MP as well. You would move in slow motion, and perceive your opponent as moving in slow motion, but your opponent would perceive you as moving at normal speed, and he would be moving at normal speed as well. My brain is too tired to work out how this happens, but I know that my opponent would "jump" around the map as if teleporting at times. I assume the reason he couldn't tell I was in slowmo was because it translated as mere lag for him. When I told him, what I was doing, he left, turned on slowmo and rejoined (upon which he stopped "lagging"). It was a pretty funny experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Broode, you are entitled to your opinion, and make no mistake - what you have expressed is only that - an opinion. While your personal feeling is that consistency is unimportant, you must accept that your sentiment is not universal. Whether it's SP or MP, I personally strive for consistency. As an example, if in the SP game the villain's hair is blonde, but in the MP his hair is black, then I would say that this subtle detail matters for consistency's sake. My thoughts on a consistent Force Speed in SP and MP is no different. I equally value both the SP and MP games - not merely the SP game, as appears to be the case with you; correct me if I'm wrong. And while I agree with you that an engrossing and rich SP game is extremely satisfying, so also would I argue that competing in that same, exciting universe in the MP game is just as enjoyable. On a side note, the repeater was incredibly effective in MP. A great way to kill a Jedi: pelt him with the secondary fire from the repeater...he can block one of the shots, but not all three. In any event, I'm going to issue you an Official Warning <sup>TM</sup>. We encourage heated debate in these forums, but at the same time expect everyone to show respect and courtesy to the other members of these forums - even the people you're debating with. This includes no name-calling, labeling or stereotyping people. Your statement "...you have these conservatists trying to...", comes dangerously close to violating these standards. What you label as "conservativist", is in reality merely someone who doesn't share your opinion, which can be offensive to the people you have labeled. A less offensive way to phrase your statement would be, "...you have people trying to..." Argue your points with logic and information, not veiled or overt insults. If you cannot follow these instructions, then you should discontinue posting in these forums. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps2maddenman Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 "As you know, the Expanded Universe takes a back seat to George's interpretation of how his universe works. If what you suggest were true, then Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan could have easily defeated the Destroyer Droids by using Force Speed. But they didn't, which suggests that there is no temporal effect. " Avery interesting point, but wouldn't it be prudent to not completely dismiss this idea, could there be other factors at work? If the temporal effect was true, then how could Qui Gon and Obi-Wan have disabled the Droidekas? Didn't they have Shield generators? Whether time was slowed or not they would still have this, which brings up this interesting question, since the SP game will feature this, will it matter against enemies/ships with shields (except for dodging thier fire of course)? The shield would still be there so why would it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan12R Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I do have to say, part of me wants a demo now because I want to be sure my computer can handle it. But since I'm sure, I'll be buying the game anyways, might as well get the full game out now so I don't have to waste my time downloading all 100 someMB of the demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 ps2maddenman, I'm not entirely certain about this, but I believe that I read somewhere that the destroyer droids only have shields on their front side. Again, this may be inaccurate and the shields may fully enclose them. However, if it is only on the front side, then a Jedi could use Force Speed to run around the back side and finish them off. If they are fully enclosed by shields, one would still think that a lightsaber, which is capable of turning a blast door into slag, could make fairly short work of the shields on a destroyer droid. The Force Speed using Jedi would still have to stay behind the destroyer droid to keep from harms way, but one would think this would be easily accomplished for the Force-enhanced reflexes of a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps2maddenman Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Vegabond, since we are using the movie as "canon" watch when Obi-wan and Qui Gon deflect the blaster bolts on the Destroyer Droids, the shields are a full circle around thier bodies, also if you read here at starwars.com, you can read "The destroyer droid can completely envelope itself in a globe of protective energy via its compact deflector shield generators. " so that answers both of us from an official source, that is why Obi-Wan and Qui Gon didn't mess with them (try to run around back/etc). I have never read of a lightsaber being able to penetrate a deflector shield. In fact I vaguely remember someone in one of the novels trying to kill an assasin droid but instead thier lightsaber shorted out because the droid had a deflector shield, I think it was the IG88 story in Tales of the Bounty Hunters, but I am non completely sure (but this is from the novels which are "non-canon", but then again, so is this game.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 ps2maddenman, we may never know the true answer to this question. But the movies do demonstrate that a lightsaber is capable of slashing through the armor of an AT-AT. No small feat. We also know that the relatively weak blasters on the Naboo starfighter were able to completely overwhelm the shields on a Destroyer Droid, making short work of these otherwise formidable machines. If one were to compare the armament on a Naboo starfighter against that of a Rebel Alliance Snowspeeder, most would agree that the Snowspeeder's blaster cannons are far more powerful. Thus, one could conclude that a Rebel Snowspeeder would have an easier time dispatching a Destroyer Droid than a Naboo starfighter. Here's where I'm going with all this: Lightsaber > AT-AT Armor AT-AT Armor > Rebel Snowspeeder Rebel Snowspeeder > Naboo Starfighter Naboo Starfighter > Destroyer Droid Using the logical rule of Implication, if the Lightsaber is stronger than the AT-AT Armor, and the AT-AT Armor is stronger than the Rebel Snowspeeder's weapons, and the Rebel Snowspeeder's weapons are stronger than the Naboo Starfighter's weapons, and the Naboo Starfighter's weapons are stronger than the Destroyer Droid's shields, then we have that: The Lightsaber is stronger than the Destroyer Droid's shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I'd say thats game set and match to the V man... wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 But then shields are different to armour ..and you also have to deal with the problem of getting the shields without the blasters getting you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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