hannibalscipio Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 I’ve now seen Episode II, and I have a few things to say about it. Pardon me if I wax a bit poetic or eloquent. I’ve been thinking about some of this for a while now, and I hope you can see where I’m coming from and get something out of what I write. First off, the overall picture I got from seeing Episode II: The first half was everything I had feared it would be, and the second half was everything, or most of everything, I hoped it would be. There were a few good things in the first half, and a few bad things in the second half, but it’s generally segregated according to the first and second halves. First I’ll talk about the bad, and then the good. The thing most everyone detested, and certainly every Star Wars fan hated, was the romance between Anakin and Amidala. It started out fairly innocent, with Anakin being nervous about seeing Amidala after being away for 10 years. Then it takes a turn for the worse. He begins blabbing about his dreams of her, his passion and great love for her. It eventually degenerates into the sad state of Anakin trying desperately to seduce Amidala, though Amidala doesn’t want anything to do with it. Now, let me stop and say something. I had seen a lot of posters & advertisements for Ep2 before it came out, and they all had one thing in common: Anakin and Amidala resting their heads against each other, gazing at each other, etc. When I talked to people about my concerns regarding this, they simply said things like: “No, I don’t think so. The action will quickly outweigh any mushy romance junk” or “Nah, Anakin will be fighting with the dark side so much, you won’t even really notice the stuff between him and Amidala.” Others have said that there was romance between Han and Leia in the Trilogy, and that didn’t hurt anything. I agree. So lets take a little look at the relationship Han and Leia had, compared to the relationship Anakin and Amidala have. Han was a scoundrel, and the Princess was royalty. They were total opposites. That’s what made their modest romance so good. Princess Leia loved Han because he was a scoundrel. She was too proud to admit that she loved him until the last bit of Episode 5. The kissing was not overdone and prolonged, and sarcasm and funny remarks permeated their relationship. They were mature adults. So what about Annie and Ami? Ami is a Senator, and Annie is a Jedi-in training. He’s been in love with her for ten years. They both look and act like teenagers. Anakin plays the role of the seducer, rather viciously trying to get Amidala to love and kiss him. You can see it in his face, that he’s not just an innocent little boy desperately in love with a girl, but a rather twisted person, trying to seduce. Or at least that’s how I see it. Their relationship was that of a couple of high school know-nothings. Need I remind you of their little roll-in-the-clover act? That kind of romance doesn’t belong in any movie. It was poorly done and crude. The love scenes were far too frequent and juvenile. I’m not even gonna talk about the “Floating Pear” episode. I might puke. Its hard to compare Anakin and Han, since they’re from such different backgrounds, but its quite a bit easier to compare Leia and Amidala. They’re both from similar backgrounds. However, the similarity pretty much ends there. The thing that made the relationship between Han and Leia, was spunk. They both were full of it. The Princess had battle skills like Amidala, but the difference is that Leia has a tough personality, and Amidala doesn’t. And even though Leia was in battles and wars constantly, and was forced to do some things she didn’t want to, she still seems to be a lady. It must be almost impossible to have a female warrior who’s lady-like, but Leia was just that. Amidala had battle skills, but she has the attitude of a hotshot high school cheerleader, not a mature woman. I think perhaps the biggest strength of the Trilogy was that though they flew strange starships, and used unfamiliar weapons, and used mysterious powers, it was all totally believable. There was almost nothing you could look at and say “Nah, that couldn’t happen.” That’s what made the storyline so great. It was as if you were simply viewing a factual history of an alternate galaxy far, far away. This has changed. Episode I had a little too much animation for my liking, but it didn’t hurt too bad. The aliens looked realistic, as much as they could. But in Ep2, it looks like someone let the animation specialists run wild. Now, don’t get me wrong. I liked some of the graphics. The aliens that created the clone army were very realistic, and deserved to be in there. All of the animation was extremely well done, and dazzling. But they were a little too dazzling for their own good. The scene where Obi-Wan and Anakin chase Zam Wessell was exciting, but not truly believable. It made you stop and think, and when any story forces you to do that, its not good. The romance was also pretty fake, but I’ve already mentioned that. Really, the only good parts in the movie were the parts of extreme action, like the Obi-Wan/Jango fights, the duels, and the Clone trooper/battle droid battle, though it wasn’t really balanced. And that’s a surprise to me, since I thought I would hate the action, since there would be too much of it. I guess its just because there was nothing but action in this movie. Two things ranked highest in destroying the credibility of this movie. Now, I loved it when 3PO started talking. For a brief moment, I thought the droids might salvage some of Ep2 on their own. But no, that didn’t happen. R2-D2 started flying around with jet boosters, which was terribly unrealistic. I mean, if he can has jet boosters, wouldn’t he surely have a rope to lower to Amidala while she was in the cauldron? How sad THAT was. C-3PO’s part wasn’t nearly as bad, though I thought when his head got stuck on the battle droid’s body, it was a bit too silly. The other thing, of course, was the shot of the holocam that was showing the droids playing football. That was just terrible. The whole bar scene was botched. It was too much like today, and too little like the Cantina, with every other person being a gorgeous humanoid, half(or less)-dressed. I mean, if I want to see that kind of junk, which I don’t, I’ll go hang out in some cheap, dirty nightclub. Its like what was said in a recent “Heart of the City” strip in our newpaper. You really, really are looking forward to getting a bike for Christmas. Then the day comes, and your parents get you a scooter. Now, a scooter is nice and all, but what you really wanted was a bike, see? Well, that’s what I think. Hope you found this interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 oops...too long for me to read j/k Nice...although still haven't seen it..yes you may cry for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 i agree for the most part, although i was strangely entertained by some of the things you mentioned as disturbing (the 3PO-parts, for example). I think we perceive those parts as too contrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 Nice review but I have a suggestion for you: PARAGRAPH BRAKES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Pal, that was meant to be a cheap, dirty nightclub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I'll admit that the romances were a bit off...Clover scene plus the Pear scene plus the "I deeply, truly love you," I mean that was a bit off and his reply? He kisses her long and hard until they are nearly half-way out into the arena. I thought that was just a bit forced. Maybe if he had said "I know" the way Han did in ESB it might have salvaged the remark...but oh well. That is my only greivance. All the connections were great. I loved all the action sequences, from Jango Fett vs. Obi to the chase to the epic Battle and to the Duels. [rant] This move is great...yet it gets CRAP from EVERY freacking critic! "B- movie (NO PLOT LINE), C movie (too much action),D movie (George just out for mor money), F movie (too much action, too disjointed, no plot)" These are just some of the reviews I've seen. Yet for some reason I don't see any A- or A or even A+...why? The audiences love it, but the critics hate it? Have the critics no brain? Maybe they are wanting to see a movie that has lots of dialog and lots of plot twists and a riviting romance...sorry but that isn't Star Wars' genre. This is a Sci-Fi Action movie to the core. Yes there was a romance scene in it! So what! Stop trying to be so judgemental of it and start looking at it, hear the words they say. Yes one or two scenes are acted badly, but every movie has their share of bad scenes. Nobody can help it. Maybe 10-15 years from now a special edition will be put out fixing some of the scenes...who knows. But for now this is a great movie handed to us and if you just take it on the surface and come wanting to critisize the romance scenes and action, then you most likely will. Give this movie a fair chance and you'll find that this movie could very possibly be better than the trilogy. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Yeah, I think Anakin should have had more of a Han-style attitude in AOTC. He reminded me too much of TPM ani... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 True that, ferg. Ever notice how critics give crap-ass grades to the movies that we love and give great grades to movies we've never even heard about? I've given up trusting critics and their stuck-up opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I'm officially a 'reviewer' and a critic.. you're welcome to try out my review for size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rommel Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Originally posted by Eets'chula Yeah, I think Anakin should have had more of a Han-style attitude in AOTC. He reminded me too much of TPM ani... the anakin that he's only 10 years removed from... ... the two ARE the same person, eets. it makes sense that they're alike! we don't need another han... anakin should be an original character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Yeah, but they focused on Anakin turning to the dark side in this movie. Ya don't turn to the dark side as a whiny 8 year old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I didn't think he was whiny in TPM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Just a couple points to think about: You stated that Han and Leia's romance was more believable and that much of this stems from the fact that they were adults. I can see this in Han's case, though I don't know about Leia (she would have been about the same age in Empire as Amidala is in Clones). If nothing else, Han's playboy maturity probably had the greatest influence on their relationship, though the fact that Leia was a no-nonsence rebel stuck in the middle of a galactic revolt lended her maturity too. Of course, Amidala had some experience with this, but she tended to live in luxery while Leia froze her butt off in Hoth and had to stay low-key. Then, of course, there's Anakin, who fell in love with Amidala as a kid, hasn't seen her for 10 years, and probably hasn't ever been on a date in his life (since he was in love with her and very busy learning to be a jedi). So yeah, Amidala and Anakin are a bit immature, but that's how they are supposed to be--which makes them being overwhelmed by their emotions and not knowing how to act around each other a bit more believable. Granted, I think the romance could have been handled a bit better, but I'm not going to come down on it that hard given the circumstances surrounding the characters... Only other thing I make argue about is the bar scene, which you said was a bit too much like our society and not like the Cantina. Again, I'll point out that this is probably how it SHOULD be. The Cantina was in a desert planet beyond the reach of the federation in Mos Eisley, a town known for criminals and lowlifes. "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"--Obi-wan Kenobi. The bar in Clones is in the middle of a city. Of course, it's going to be more modern... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 The thing most everyone detested, and certainly every Star Wars fan hated, was the romance between Anakin and Amidala. ...I didn't hate it...I didn't like alot of it, but I didn't hate it... It started out fairly innocent, with Anakin being nervous about seeing Amidala after being away for 10 years. Then it takes a turn for the worse. He begins blabbing about his dreams of her, his passion and great love for her. It eventually degenerates into the sad state of Anakin trying desperately to seduce Amidala, though Amidala doesn’t want anything to do with it. ...So? The guy has exactly zero experience with girls, and he obviously has the wrong motives anyway...after all, he becomes Darth Vader! You didn't explain why it was bad, only why you personally didn't like it... This has changed. Episode I had a little too much animation for my liking, but it didn’t hurt too bad. The aliens looked realistic, as much as they could. But in Ep2, it looks like someone let the animation specialists run wild. Now, don’t get me wrong. I liked some of the graphics. The aliens that created the clone army were very realistic, and deserved to be in there. All of the animation was extremely well done, and dazzling. But they were a little too dazzling for their own good. The scene where Obi-Wan and Anakin chase Zam Wessell was exciting, but not truly believable. It made you stop and think, and when any story forces you to do that, its not good. Huh? They couldn't possibly have made that any better. I certainly didn't stop and think about it. Is the Death Star truly believeable to you then? Is anything in Star Wars truly believeable? R2-D2 started flying around with jet boosters, which was terribly unrealistic. I mean, if he can has jet boosters, wouldn’t he surely have a rope to lower to Amidala while she was in the cauldron? How sad THAT was. If he has jet boosters, don't you think they would be designed to carry him? The other thing, of course, was the shot of the holocam that was showing the droids playing football. That was just terrible. lmao...that wasn't a holocam...that was an imitation arcade game...no wonder you thought it was terrible The whole bar scene was botched. It was too much like today, and too little like the Cantina, with every other person being a gorgeous humanoid, half(or less)-dressed. I mean, if I want to see that kind of junk, which I don’t, I’ll go hang out in some cheap, dirty nightclub. It was a cheap, dirty nightclub...it's even described as a nightclub Should a bar be just like the ANH Cantina (on a planet described as being the fartherst possible from the bright center if the universe) if it's on Coruscant (which is the bright center of the universe )? Hehe...I'll be shutting up now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Right on, Redwing. Just a few quick things. 1. Astromech droids do have propulsion jets. They are used for Zero Grav manuvering. After all, they are mechanics, and some things must be fixed outside the ship. 2. As Ferg said, i hate how the critics rate everything. It seems like they only want dialogue, character developement, and romance. They also say that it has no plot, but i just think that they don't get it. I mean, did anyone here have problems following the plot? No, because we understand it as fans, most critics don't. 3. I hate it when people say that the humor ruins the movie. Sure, some of it is a little akward, but no one ever seems to mind that sort of thing in a James Bond movie. 4. Maybe the love scenes were a bit juvenile because Anikan is a juvenile. He's only 19, and as other stated, had no experience with girls. 5. I really liked how the Coruscant scene was done. I think somehow we get the impression that Coruscant in the upper levels, but i think the true Coruscant is what we saw. The only reason it looks a bit odd is that we've never seen that side of Coruscant before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibalscipio Posted June 3, 2002 Author Share Posted June 3, 2002 Its my opinion that the bar scene wasn't as realistic as it might have been. If you wanna portray a bar that's just like today's,, that's fine. But the aliens really didn't look like the ones that would be in a bar. Face it, every female was a humanoid model. Every one I saw, at least. I'm no pro critic, but from a pure movie standpoint I'd give AOTC an A- or a B+. However, from the standpoint of a SW fan, I would be forced to give it a B- or so. It just doesn't measure up to the rich legacy of the Trilogy. Redwing, if you want to make a constructive comment on my review, like Kryllith or TG, go right ahead. I welcome it. But it gets us nowhere when you simply go through and try to sarcastically make fun of everything I say. Plain and simple, that's acting like a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Redwing got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Originally posted by hannibalscipio Redwing, if you want to make a constructive comment on my review, like Kryllith or TG, go right ahead. I welcome it. But it gets us nowhere when you simply go through and try to sarcastically make fun of everything I say. Plain and simple, that's acting like a jerk. Quite frankly, I agree with him on the believableness of star wars I mean, when's the last time you saw a working blaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 ...or a walking carpet, for that matter ? Keep in mind that a critic usually makes his remarks to simply be perceived as an expert. Going along with hype almost never accomplishes that. One exception: Lord Of The Rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibalscipio Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Hey, I don't claim to be an expert on anything, Star Wars or otherwise. I'm just a guy with some opinions. But I'm getting sick and tired of people ridiculing other's comments without thinking about what they're saying. The believeableness of Star Wars doesn't rely on the it using real things that we see every day. Blaster's don't exist, and Wookiees aren't real. However, they looked and acted just as if they were in the older movies. It was just as if in this galaxy far, far away they had discovered some things we don't know about. Its just a movie, of course, but a very believable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithcloak Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Good review. The romance wasn't to good but I didn't make it out as bad as you did. And I thought the things done with the droids were ok, I did think that they went a little overbord with the switching of the heads and body, and the jet boosters, but it still was good. Good review nonetheless. Sithcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibalscipio Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 Hey, thanks. Maybe I just react more violently than some other people to bad romance:) . The droids weren't BAD, but they could have been a really good thing for the movie, and they weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Originally posted by hannibalscipio Its my opinion that the bar scene wasn't as realistic as it might have been. If you wanna portray a bar that's just like today's,, that's fine. But the aliens really didn't look like the ones that would be in a bar. Face it, every female was a humanoid model. Every one I saw, at least. It's Coruscant, mostly populated by humans. It's an upper-class bar, of course males are going to bring there nice looking dates along with them, the only ones who are going to be able to get in to an upper class bar on Coruscant at thios time are going to be rich snobby teenagers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Originally posted by Eets'chula Yeah, I think Anakin should have had more of a Han-style attitude in AOTC. He reminded me too much of TPM ani... Why would we need 2 Han Solos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I didn't say we needed two han solos, did I? I said he should have had MORE of a Han-Style attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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