The whole pull and backstab scheme

[BlackDove]

Ok, I took it upon myself to write this because I am extremly bored and I'm waiting for a movie to download, so this is basically just to kill my time, and possibly I get to find out something.

 

I see on this forum that every second or thrid thread is complaining about how backstabbers are lame, gay, idiots, and so on. While understanding that it is painful to lose to a person that owns you in one move and you get to be so stupid not to counter it, therefore voicing those insulting words, I still can't understand why you don't do something about it. I know that when I started out in 1.03, I was a total newbie, and there were some players that pulled and backstabbed all the time.

 

I still remember the first guy I met, who was doing the pull/backstab, it was in a CTF game, and I remember feeling completely stupid because I wasn't able to do anything about it. I was just amazed to see him dispose of everyone (including myself) so fast. Then of course later on most people started using it and so I started to train how to use it myself. I know I sucked at it heavily at first because I was one of those people walking backwards (however I did it with a med stance, which made it look so idiotic when the moves would reach it's 3 chainable move, and then you could walk about a mile backwards until the moves started to repeat). The point is that I never was complaining of whining or swearing at anyone who was better than me in using it.

 

Today, I'm one of the best backslashers out there (there are still many people better than me of course). I do the move constantly in CTF and TFFA games (not because I want to, but because I HAVE to since there isn't time for me to decide werther I will do it or not, and besides, 85% of the people on the servers that I go to do it, so really no complaints there), however I never use it in duels unless I am forced to do it (ie when I see people walking backwards with a blue stance, or when they use a script to try backstab me).

 

Today I was in a game with a certain "Padawan" nick, and he was a regular absorb+pull+medslash+(something new) he was using the spin script. So when he would try to pull me it didn't work of course because I had my absorb on, and then he tried to backslash me however he kept missing all the time, and gorilling like an idiot while going backwards. Of course due to the skills that I have learned (and I spent some time learning it, mind you ), I managed to kill him time after another, and time after time he would make a "MOHAHA CHEATER" message. I would just write "ROFL" after that while my teammates would tell him where to shove his insults.

 

I'm telling you, it's really fun playing against that kind of players because they start to think they are invincible when they know how to pull+backslash, and use absorb along with it.

 

So my question is simple. Why not take it upon yourself to learn how to do it and counters to it so you could beat people that do it? I did it, and I don't see how I can be so different or superior than everyone else. However learning sure beats the helpless crying on how you were unable to play against someone who was able to own you every single time. Also, if you learn how and when to use it, you get to have a lot of fun moments with other people who think they are 1337 because they killed a few people using the moves themselves. Is it really that hard to get over the complex that someone else knows something that you don't? Or is it just easier to say "lamer" and continue to be oblivious to different aspects of the game?

 

 

the moral of this message has been brought to you by residentjackass@learnthedamnmovesalreadyandstartowningpeoplethatthinktheyare1337withtheirbackstabbingabilities,andmoreimportantly,stopwhiningabouthowtheyownedyou,andstartowningthem.com

 

Also sorry for the long message

[<>Phant0m<>]

Wow i never thought kal could write so much

 

Very true all of it i must say.

 

It (backstabbing) will be around for a while i think and everyones gonna have 2 learn to counter it, the only problem that i can see which is more damaging to the game is the kinda scripts that can be combined with backstabbing.

 

For example -

 

I was fighting 1 guy in duel, a guy id fought b4 and enjoyed dueling (i wont name anyone, De'Atamos i think ) and now all of a sudden he was able to face me and when id strike he would instantly turn so his ass was in my face and start the backstab animation, well i was very disappointed in seeing a good player end nice long tactical saber fights with a 1 hit move, shame it twas.

 

Its the scripts that will do the damage in the long run peepz.

 

My personal view on backstabbing is this, I dont do it, i dont like it because it cuts a good fight short and its easily abused, but easily countered.

 

Dont flame me im sexy..

[BlackDove]

True, scripts suck because they cut the work of actually turning and backstabbing, however anything is beatable...and I have beaten scripters...however you have to know what to do to beat them

[Pedantic]

It seems to me that many people want to take the (forgive the cliche) quick and easy path. When it does not work, they complain rather than take time to practice and develop skills on their own.

[<>Phant0m<>]

I had another guy the other day cant remember his name, but he had the same script that i mentioned b4, and he spammed it constantly, so he was very predictable but dangerous to engage, so i had to slide in some heavy swings and a crafty (but very dangerous) DFA to kill him. Basically its not a fun fight with either combat scripts or constant backstabbing, maybe easy to counter but boring all the same.

[cLIpT0]

i dont mind the backstab/swing if it's used at SOME moments. but even if someone spams the move i would start doing the same to that person and fight the rest normally. backstab is not a bad thing (yet a bit TOO powerful), its another move u can add to your repertoire. but there are ppl whose repertoire consists of nothing but backstab.

and a lot of times, those ppl are using a script and thus i agree with what is said before: backstab is not as big a problem as the scripts that abuse it.

 

but on the other hand i can see that it's frustrating to constantly die the same way and even though i sometimes use the backstab i think it's power should be reduced. thats my 2c about the subject

[Mercen4ry]

I have to admit though, the levels that these people are stooping to are getting lower every day. There was one person that showed up in one of my favorite servers, and not only was he a constant absorb-pull-backstab llama, but he actually named himself "Back-stabber," like it was something he was proud about.

 

That said, I think I'll stick to a 1.03++ server until the time comes when / if this stupidity blows over. It sure beats the tedium of dealing with one-hit wonders time and again (I kill them anyway, but the tactic bores me...) and the subsequent flames when I kill them, ranging from "hey, nice cheat" to "STFU n00b, you have no skill." Thank you, but I prefer playing with folks who chose this: over these

 

Merc out.

[Derisor]

Perhaps I was only lucky but I played a duel and saw some guy spin back to me and immediately I force pushed him and knocked him on his face an nicely bisected him.

 

I wonder if this move is as devastating as is claimed. With a script it could be a problem i suppose, but without a script, I think the key is to remap your force keys CLOSE to your movement keys.

[BlackDove]

You also have the new "spin" move, which is a cheat and of course exploited by many already... I'm trying to find a way to use that to my advantage...

[Cal-Gon Gin]

Well put Kal.

[Nhoj]

Kal (and others),

The "problem" is not the move itself. I can defend against most players who use it. The problem is that there is more to this game than just fragging. It is a STAR WARS game; a sci-fi universe that's been public since 1977. There is a particular fighting style to Jedi/Dark Jedi, etc. They don't use one move constantly. They don't look silly by running around backwards to make an easy kill.

 

I don't understand why 1. people don't want to duel (as opposed to just going for a quick frag). The long duels are the best for me. They are the most fun. 2, why they don't understand the concepts of Star Wars. There are attributes to Jedi and the like as explained above. 3. why "players" want to rely on scripts rather than "DOING" the moves. Scripting, in mho, is not sportsmanship. It's not wrong/illegal, etc, but it's there's no sportsmanship in it, either.

 

There's more to the game than "owning" someone. If one thinks that frag count alone is the goal, then I would argue that they just don't get the idea and we (the anti-assfighters) will never agree with the assfighters and vice versa. I'd rather play the GAME and have some good duels myself.

[TheRock]

So, what you are really saying is, "If you can't beat them, join them?" Nice counter.

 

I know exactly why people use it, its an EASY kill. And as I've said a THOUSAND times, its not the pull/backstabs you see coming that are the main problem, it's the pull/backstabs that you don't see coming and therefore can't avoid.

 

How fun is it that learning ONE move out of hundreds, and spamming it endlessly, can get you ATLEAST 10 "Could be performed in my sleep" kills per game.

 

The fact is EVERYTHING in the game currently revolves around blocking pull/backstabs. ANY contest revovles around blocking pull/backstabs, or assfighters. Heck, you can drop your saber and take a HEAVY SWING FULL ON, and survive, but if someone turns around in front of you, at full health/sheilds, saber drawn, Im a deadman. Makes sense to me.

 

JK2.lowgrav.org....where we KICK and BAN people like Kal-El (NO Offense, not that you care. 99% of your posts were flaming others...funny how that stopped when the moderators posted the rules about it). No pull/backstabs, no spinning backstabs....Actual FIGHTING ... Imagine that.

 

I love it!

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Nhoj

Kal (and others),

The "problem" is not the move itself. I can defend against most players who use it. The problem is that there is more to this game than just fragging. It is a STAR WARS game; a sci-fi universe that's been public since 1977. There is a particular fighting style to Jedi/Dark Jedi, etc. They don't use one move constantly. They don't look silly by running around backwards to make an easy kill.

 

I don't understand why 1. people don't want to duel (as opposed to just going for a quick frag). The long duels are the best for me. They are the most fun. 2, why they don't understand the concepts of Star Wars. There are attributes to Jedi and the like as explained above. 3. why "players" want to rely on scripts rather than "DOING" the moves. Scripting, in mho, is not sportsmanship. It's not wrong/illegal, etc, but it's there's no sportsmanship in it, either.

 

There's more to the game than "owning" someone. If one thinks that frag count alone is the goal, then I would argue that they just don't get the idea and we (the anti-assfighters) will never agree with the assfighters and vice versa. I'd rather play the GAME and have some good duels myself.

 

Yep, true, all of it, and I found out a couple of things about those facts. Frankly, the only long duels that you wish to make, will probably gonna have to be with your friends (well there will be probably someone, but that's rare now). I perfected my skills to a point into which I can probably drag out a fight for 5 minutes tops with the backstabbers better than me (of course not trying to run away like a fly without a head, or bunny hopping around). However then again you have to think how Raven intended it. All those people in the line (Let's say Pelliporti (sp?) a server that I visit) where there are for about 7-10 players at all times, it wouldn't be very good that all of the fights took 5 minutes... However on the other hand, if you land the backstab perfectly, the fight can be done in 10 seconds... It takes skillful player(s) to decide the time of the match. I'm not really there yet, but I can feel I'm coming close...

 

About the scripting, well the only ones losing on the game are the ones who take up the scripts against good players. Good players will defeat them with ease, so the scripters lose double. First thing is that they lost (naturally), and that even comes greater to them since they are using the scripts to "own" people all the time. They don't play for pleasure, they play to win. And the second thing is, that they will always know that they didn't fight as the game intended for them to fight... However, due to the fact that it takes a little skill to script something, and if it makes them happy, I say sure why not...although the chances are the game will get boring like that very soon because it comes down to just pushing a few buttons...

 

Originally posted by TheRock

So, what you are really saying is, "If you can't beat them, join them?" Nice counter.

 

I know exactly why people use it, its an EASY kill. And as I've said a THOUSAND times, its not the pull/backstabs you see coming that are the main problem, it's the pull/backstabs that you don't see coming and therefore can't avoid.

 

How fun is it that learning ONE move out of hundreds, and spamming it endlessly, can get you ATLEAST 10 "Could be performed in my sleep" kills per game.

 

The fact is EVERYTHING in the game currently revolves around blocking pull/backstabs. ANY contest revovles around blocking pull/backstabs, or assfighters. Heck, you can drop your saber and take a HEAVY SWING FULL ON, and survive, but if someone turns around in front of you, at full health/sheilds, saber drawn, Im a deadman. Makes sense to me.

 

JK2.lowgrav.org....where we KICK and BAN people like Kal-El (NO Offense, not that you care. 99% of your posts were flaming others...funny how that stopped when the moderators posted the rules about it). No pull/backstabs, no spinning backstabs....Actual FIGHTING ... Imagine that.

 

I love it!

 

Yep, that's what I'm saying. The "fair" doesn't stand a CHANCE against anything to the concept of a couple of backstabbers that run around (some of em backwards). Sure, a fair player might get one (mind it will take them time), and then he has to face the other 5 that are in line. Chances are not in his favor really. Before you get to defeat the 3rd, BAM timelimit hits and in any kind of form of the game, you are basically more or less screwed.

 

I cherish the "Send a backstabber to kill a backstabber". That's why I perfected my skills as a backstabber, to kill anyone who oposes me with that skill. However the important thing about that is where you draw the line. And usually once they understand they can't hurt me with that 1337 skill, they try and land normal hits...

 

The fact is EVERYTHING in the game currently revolves around blocking pull/backstabs. ANY contest revovles around blocking pull/backstabs, or assfighters. Heck, you can drop your saber and take a HEAVY SWING FULL ON, and survive, but if someone turns around in front of you, at full health/sheilds, saber drawn, Im a deadman. Makes sense to me.

 

Here's a tip. Try not to repeat that sentence again, just makes you look stupid. The fact that you are near your enemy when he turns in front of you is enough of a fact to prove that.

 

Also, your/that server...nice logic...I'm glad we are back at the Nazi regime, where people who don't know crap about all of the games moves (obviously, with that sentence above, it is clear you are not able to counter the backstab, let alone other moves you might not be telling us about) get to boss people around just because they have the bandwidth. Way to be strong man. What, you can't kill them with skills so you gotta use the rcon?

 

Also, thank you for commenting my behaviour. I'm so glad that people know about me in general...makes me feel special...

[Nhoj]

Ok, I misunderstood you at first, Kal. I got it. For me a long duel is about 1 minute. Five would get boring, I would think. Hope to meet you out there.

[NK_Zephorath]

The point is NOT that people get beat by it and hate it, it is the fact that it is a STUPID move, and people do not want to resort to using it. Face it, if sabering was like this when the game was first released, (1.02) how many of you would have quit?

 

If you hate backstabbing, you can play on

Rage and Honor (GSD) (65.113.116.20:28072)

Which is running JK2++ Beta 3.

No assfighting at all.

[technobot]

wow I agree with Kal.

 

To all the backstab haters, what's the alternative? Running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, spamming blue/yellow combos everywhere? Wow, that's really stylish, it looks just like the Dooku/Obi-Wan/Anakin fight at the end of Ep2 /sarcasm.

 

If you ask me, there's even LESS skill involved in those s@@ty combos because then you're truly "button-mashing" and you look like an idiot to boot. But there will be a segment of players on every server that think this is the way to go, and force your opinions on you.

 

I won't withold your right to hate the backsweep move, just don't tell other players they're "unskilled" when you yourself look like an idiot while spinning like a top (and no, you don't look like Yoda at the end of Ep 2, you look like a retard).

 

I've said this in another thread, watch two guys who have perfected the backsweeps (without scripts) go at it. One move and it's over, just like a real sword fight is like. In real life, if you run at someone swinging your sword wildly, I guarantee a master practicioner will cleanly slice off your head, or the arm that's foolishly whacking your sword, and present it to your next of kin as a token of their appreciation.

[Derisor]

Actually, what I fail to understand is why it is inblockable. If you are off balance or he catches you at the side, then sure, but in a true fight where he is in front of you you would just block the saber and slice his head off.

 

I think the move would be allot less cheap if:

 

A) It wasnt a one shot kill.

B) it could be blocked fron 120 degrees in front of you.

C) It exposed you to counter attack from a saber swipe at head level.

 

 

In the 2 new movies, qwi gon and obi wan amoung others quite CLEARLY block a backstab. Maul must have tried it 25 times and was bloced every time.

[ViNYL_VeNGeaNCe]

Some good points. Overall I think the game should be based on style and and skill more than frag counts. The best duels have been the ones with true jedi knights who dont rely on one or two cheap one hit wonder moves to win. Or use the same freakin moves over and over again like a damn Bot.

 

Fight with style, Not like you play quake 3 or counterstike.

[TheRock]

Kal, please stop by the server sometime (with over 1000 posts, I can only assume you don't have much game time...then again, subtract the flames from your total, and you probably have 5 posts.)

 

We are not a nazi server, we are a SKILL server. You cant assfight and win. The people there will OWN ANY backstabber that comes in without reading the rules. We do it OFTEN. Even you so called ELITE BACKSTABBERS get owned when someone with skills not based on backstabbing takes you on.

 

 

And yes, go into ANY game and you will see that backstabbers will A) Be at the top of the frag list and B) Determine the outcome of the game.

 

Don't call me stupid either, as you KNOW I am speaking the truth.

 

And FYI, Backstabbing or not, I'll give you a run for your money. I just CHOOSE not to look stupid. Some people don't care how they look, it's all about the FRAGS.

[RpTheHotrod]

Spamming pull and backslash is jsut plain lame..because you have to get absorb to use it, so you can't have fun. You have to spend your points into something you'd never use without a spammer.

 

However, I know how to fix the "Run around backwards swinging" guys and the pull spammers.

 

Go to

 

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64667

[Homosexual Ewok]

As a full Force dueler, trust me when I say I see the flames every time I play.

I never use the backstab as my "primary" attack. Not because I feel it is "lame", it's just stupid, predictable and risky to run around backwards.

I use it as a "look what, you just made a dumb mistake, here is your reward" type of counter move when my opponents screw up.

 

Seriously, if you come hopping at me slashing wildly, not paying attention to the fact you are draining your Force power with all these jumps, attempted pulls, inaccurate saber throws and having absorb on constantly, why then do you complain when I see the opportunity to attack you after easily avoiding all of your predictable and not well thought out attacks?

 

Last night I was playing against a couple of clan guys who always started out the duel with a roll and then tried a pull/backstab.

I knew it was coming, because quite frankly, 95% of all inexperienced duel players do this constantly.

 

He did the standard "walk in, walk out, roll in, try and pull" I have seen far too many times to fall for. I simply turned on absorb and let him "bump into" me. A flip kick and a backstab later and he was dead.

Now one would think his clan buddies would of learned not to try that on me. Nope, first move of the duel was an attempt to repeat what the first guy tried. Same ending for this one.

 

Later on the "smart one" of the group tried a "I am going to start a red stance swing from 20 feet away and go into a DFA in hopes you will be a total moron and run up into my blade" tactic.

Every time he did it, I kicked him. Five failed attempts, five kicks. Dead player.

 

Now here is the ironic part. I get flamed with "Is that all you can do?" every time I countered one of their idiotic attempts.

What the Hell am I supposed to do? Let you pull me? Run into an attack I saw coming from a mile away?

Counter with some weak low-damage saber swing that will probably get blocked due to the wonderfully increased auto blocking?

 

Kal, my advice would be, give up.

You are never going to be able to teach these people anything other than new ways of typing "ghEy".

Simply beat the Hell out of them and hope someone who is willing to learn (and in turn get better) comes along for a challenge.

[kaibigan]

I remember in the first Jedi Knight we had a technique called the "Lag Kill". It was fairly easy to pull if you could add and subtract. Unless you were on a cable modem. Then you couldnt do it very effective. But dial ups could. The lower your ping the less your chances.

Well as it turns out this became a hot arguement. The LPBs were all complaining and whining and acting like big children because the HPBs had a way to take them out. Now its starts again with backstabbing.

"Its too easy a kill"

"Its being used all the time"

"There is no skill involved"

"Mommy tell him to stop touching me"

"Mine Mine Mine Mine"

And I am tired of it. Fact is people arent mad of that. They are just trying to find a reason to complain so they dont have to practice or admit they got suckered. Its that simple. I have been nailed by the backstabber. Big deal. Just come back and keep fighting. If it works and its part of the game then leave it alone and move on. Stop whining because you got owned. All your doing is admitting your a sore loser. That is it.

Next people will get mad at campers. Or the AUG. LOL

 

Kaito Fett

[icefox98]

omg wtf is all ur problems anywayz backstab isnt a problem jeez its so easy to counter. lets talk about the rl problm in jk2.

 

SABER DEFENSE, yah u all know what im talkin about. i know for a fact im not alone on sayin this, that that is the CHEAPEST,GAYEST, NEWBEST, force power evr i mean COME ON i shot at this d00d at million time with the repeater and yup u guessed it every shot blocked i was just like OMFG BS NEWB STFU UR GAY i mean he just stood there and blocked them all and I KNEW WHY, cuz he was usin that damned defense. nother thing like this happend to me i was on this duel server and i was like BOW BITCH SHOW ME SOME ************* RESPECT and he was like, no. so i said fine im gonna ******* pwn u. i came up with my UBER light stance swung like a mofo at this n00b and yup u guessed it ALL BLOCKED i was like OMFG STFU NEWB UR GAY BS and he just laffed at me and sed i used defense MUAHAHAHAHA and i was like dude your so friggin cheap u know that i know that and the amerikan ppl no that bitch and then HE PWNED THE SERVER INSTED OF ME I WAS LIKE OMFG.

 

we need this problm stopped, plz raven patch it soon, or jk=dead=gay=bs

 

[Edit = Stormy - swearing. ]

[<>Phant0m<>]

Originally posted by technobot

wow I agree with Kal.

 

To all the backstab haters, what's the alternative? Running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, spamming blue/yellow combos everywhere? Wow, that's really stylish, it looks just like the Dooku/Obi-Wan/Anakin fight at the end of Ep2 /sarcasm.

 

If you ask me, there's even LESS skill involved in those s@@ty combos because then you're truly "button-mashing" and you look like an idiot to boot. But there will be a segment of players on every server that think this is the way to go, and force your opinions on you.

 

I won't withold your right to hate the backsweep move, just don't tell other players they're "unskilled" when you yourself look like an idiot while spinning like a top (and no, you don't look like Yoda at the end of Ep 2, you look like a retard).

 

I've said this in another thread, watch two guys who have perfected the backsweeps (without scripts) go at it. One move and it's over, just like a real sword fight is like. In real life, if you run at someone swinging your sword wildly, I guarantee a master practicioner will cleanly slice off your head, or the arm that's foolishly whacking your sword, and present it to your next of kin as a token of their appreciation.

 

I dont think ive ever looked stupid or like a retard in a fight. I use all the stances and just choose the right stance for the right moment.

Maybe a real fight you would lose your head with 1 strike, but this aint real life, this is the starwars universe, u dont get 1 hit kills when fighting another jedi, both (hopefully) are well trained saber duelists and would have an epic fight to decide who is greater in thier art.

Hopefully i see you on a server sometime, then we will see if i look like a retard or look stupid

 

In the 2 new movies, qwi gon and obi wan amoung others quite CLEARLY block a backstab. Maul must have tried it 25 times and was bloced every time.

 

Thinking about how TPM, didnt Jin die from a backstab??

Im sure he did, something like he got a slap in the face from a saber hilt and received a backstab?

 

Kal, my advice would be, give up.

You are never going to be able to teach these people anything other than new ways of typing "ghEy".

Simply beat the Hell out of them and hope someone who is willing to learn (and in turn get better) comes along for a challenge.

 

 

This is a discussion not an argument, im respecting everyones views and putting my own down.

 

Dont flame meh im all oily and neked....

[Pedantic]

Originally posted by <>Phant0m<>

Dont flame meh im all oily and neked....

 

That's kinda nasty...