Do you think getting rid of Guns will make you safe?

[Darth Slayne]

Locks on doors are only to keep honest people out. A determined thief will always find a way in. Likewise, strict gun laws are a godsend, but it won't in any way discourage the criminal element.

Owning a gun in itself is not a threat to society. People are a threat to society.

In my country (Australia) we too have some tough gun laws. As a result, we have less shootings than say the U.S. If you remove the gun, people will find other ways to kill. But it would be less frequent. It just seems that the true coward will always vavour the gun because he dosn't have to truly face his victim. He feels safe behind his gun. He can play god. Remove the gun and you will eliminate the majority of the cowardly crims. You'll remove the feeling of superioroty that he has.

 

...Eh, if you can make sense of that, then good luck. I know what I meant by it.

[Clem]

i hear ya slayne

 

similar to what i was saying earlier

[Darklighter]

'Guns don't kill people. People kill people'.....enough said.

[Clem]

thats true

 

but thats no reason to make it easier for them

[JandoFett1842]

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE THAT GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE!!! LITTLE SHINNY THINGS FLIYING AT HIGH SPEEDS DO!! DUH!!!

[icefox98]

A lot of mis-informed people here.

 

I know a lot of you people that live in the UK like to think that America is one huge gang war/school shooting zone, but, it's really not. All that you English people are doing, is sterotyping.

 

I can sterotype too, and say that England has nothing to offer, it's people have it really bad, because they can't buy a car bigger than a shoebox for a million dollars, so they all buy scooters, or the police in Britain carry large sticks instead of guns (good way to get those robbers), but I won't, because, that is just a sterotype.

 

Oh, and stop trying to make America sound like a cess-pool from hell. I guess people owning their own houses, cars, guns, etc is the price you have to pay for freedom. =/

 

There is always an occasional wacko, but, for the most part, its not as bad as you make it out to be. (Qui-Gon)

 

Have you guys even ever visited the US?

 

And, maybe our gun deaths are so high because we HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING HERE. If you want to give us statistics, give us percentages, and something to compare with (from other countries, I bet the gun/kill rate in Afghanistan is pretty high).

 

But, that said, I too, agree guns should be outlawed. It really isnt that huge of a problem, as some people who dont even live here try to make it out to be (infierority complex about their own country not being too great possibly?) But still, they aren't really needed. And don't give me that hunting bull#### and overpopulation. I'm sure there are a lot easier ways than to give a bunch of hicks guns to go out and shoot deer, Like trained Army people to clear out a bunch of them in a controlled area, or DNR, etc.

[OnlyOneCanoli]

I voted a very strong No on this subject. Chalk me uo as one of them damn Yankee Republicans, but when you look at this issue logically, I can't see it any other way. Here is a paper I wrote this year in English (to be read out loud). I think it's pretty good, although I left out a few other arguments. And the closing part with the Jesus quote is a bit iffy, as not everyone believes in him (I for one, don't, but I still used it, hehehe), but I might as well post it in its entirety.

 

Gun Control: Preying on the Uninformed

Dan Cushing

 

Americans are divided over so many issues in this country. Liberal or Conservative? Is our foreign policy oppressive or is it helping other nations? Pro-life or pro-choice? Those are but three popular debates going on in society right now, and I can assure you that that’s only the tip of the iceberg. However, everybody can agree on one thing: America should a safer place.

 

Many people believe that this goal of epic proportions can be achieved through eliminating firearms from society. These people have the right idea, but they are simply taking the wrong approach to solve this issue. While the concept of gun control may seem very valid at first glance, the fact of the matter is that when one actually analyzes what would happen if such legislation were passed, that person would see that banning guns is not a step that we as Americans should be willing to take. There are hoards of myths that people believe about citizens owning firearms. People believe that children are exposed to unnecessary risk, that the Second Amendment is no longer valid, and that an increase in guns means an increase in violent crimes.

 

One such misunderstanding is that guns pose an extreme threat to children. Many gun-ban activists claim that 4000 or more children are killed by firearms each year. However, these people consider anybody that is under the age of 21 to be a child. So, in actuality, a 20-year-old drug dealer who’s shot is considered one of these 4000 dead children. Statistics show that less than two kids under the age of 14 are killed each day from gunfire. In 1998, only 121 were killed—when compared to 2048 killed in car crashes, 940 killed in swimming pools, and 565 killed from burns, that number is negligible (Poe 31). In fact, more children are killed each year from bicycle accidents than from gun accidents (Lott 261). As far as I can see, people are not proposing to ban use of bicycles by children. Clearly, anti-gun activists can manipulate the uninformed people of America by linking deaths of children to owning firearms.

 

As more and more Americans are persuaded by these manipulations each day, keeping our right to allow firearms in America is an uphill battle. One of the few reasons we still have this right is because of the Second Amendment to the Constitution. The amendments states, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Gun prohibitionists will argue that this amendment provides that only those in the militia may bear arms. However, the amendment clearly states that “the people” have a right to bear arms. “The people,” in this case, are the same people from the First, Fourth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments—each and every free person living in the United States. There’s no reason why the Second Amendment should be treated any differently than the other are.

 

The Second Amendment is under more fire than just the militia issue. Many anti-gun advocates believe that the Second Amendment is obsolete and can no longer apply to today’s society. When the Constitution was written, our founding fathers implemented this law for two reasons: One, to protect settlers from threats such as wild animals, criminals, and Native Americans, and two, to protect the people from some future government that would strip the people of their weapons. Admittedly, I cannot account for the second one, as that situation has not occurred and it doesn’t seem too likely to happen in the near future. As for the first reason, guns helped settlers moving west stay alive. Today, violent threats in America have risen exponentially. If guns were allowed to protect people in the 1700s against so few threats, then why should they be banned in today’s society, where more violent threats exist? It doesn’t make sense.

 

Criminals, however, don’t care about the Second Amendment. They don’t care if it is lawful or if it’s unlawful to own a firearm. Laws are followed by ordinary citizens, and laws are broken by criminals. If guns were banned in the United States, criminals would still be able to acquire weapons illegally. And when criminals have weapons, and law-abiding citizens have nothing to defend themselves with, more innocent people are hurt. This is not right.

 

The final and most significant of the misunderstandings about firearms is that people believe that an increase in guns means an increase in violent crimes. Experts have found just the opposite to be true. It makes sense—if a would-be criminal knows the person he or she intends to hurt may be packing heat, then the criminal would be less willing to attack them. If gun laws are stricter, then the criminals are confident that the people they intend to hurt are defenseless, and as a result they become bolder and more violent. It’s logical.

 

In 1996, the Australian government imposed stricter gun control laws in their country after a lunatic murdered 35 people. The results of stripping over a half million law-abiding citizens of their defense weapons were disastrous. Armed robberies increased 73%, unarmed robberies went up 28%, kidnapping rose 38%, assaults went up 17%, and manslaughter increased by 29% (Poe 30). Is this really what we want for America?

 

The horrific increase in crime in Australia was not an isolated event. England also learned things the hard way. After a 1996 massacre of children in Scotland, the British Government cracked down on guns. A dramatic increase in crime ensued, as muggings in England passed the rate in the U.S. by 40%, and assault and burglary rates were nearly 100% higher than those in the U.S. (Kopel 27). Additionally, Australia and England are the first and second worst countries in the industrial world as far as violent crime is concerned, according to the February 2001 International Crime Victims Survey, while the United States is not even in the top ten worst (Poe 31).

 

But look no further than our home state of Florida for a ray of hope. In the ten years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, there were 478,248 people who received permits to carry firearms. FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 39% during that 10-year period. The Florida homicide rate is now far below the national average. In fact, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by conceal carry holders by a 146 to 88 margin (Kleck 23). The facts clearly state that because of allowing concealed firearms in Florida, gun users have been able to defend themselves and have been able to not harm others with their weapons.

 

It’s really quite obvious that when you look at the facts, gun control is detrimental to society, while allowing law-abiding citizens to lawfully own and use firearms is an extremely effective measure against crime. Jesus Christ said, "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace." If Jesus Christ believed in one’s right to defend himself in his home, then why shouldn’t we?

[Darth Groovy]

I wrote this poem several years ago and had it published in a local magazine.

 

 

Hand Me The Gat?

 

18

Legal for me

To Own a gun

to protect myself

from someone

who is

18

Legal for him

To Own a gun

To protect himself

from someone.....

who has so many guns

and all of this protection

why should anyone die

from a gunshot wound?

[ToppDog]

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

 

But the best is to not have one & not need it.

 

Yes, on this I agree with you. In a perfect world this would be the case. Unfortunately our world is not perfect.

 

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

 

If you have one it is more likely that you will need it (wich is not a good thing)

 

On this one though I differ with you. You seem to be implying that gun owners are somehow looking for trouble, when that is far from the case.

 

I was in the Army & very familiar with firearms, yet upon getting out I never felt the need or desire to own a gun of my own. Only after I got married & was responsible for the life & wellbeing of another did I choose to finally get a firearm for our protection & defense.

 

I do not go out looking for trouble at all. But if trouble finds its way to me, I will do my best to protect the innocent people around me from harm.

 

Yes, it's true that there are too many guns in the US, but banning them only enables the criminals to do more crime as citizens are not able to defend themselves against those that would do them harm.

 

The ignorance lies in the fact that people simply think that passing a law makes the crime automatically go away. If you don't enforce those laws, all they amount to are worthless words on a piece of worthless paper.

 

Criminals don't obey the law. That's why they are called CRIMINALS. You can't legislate a person's behavior.

 

There is also the supply & demand problem. As long as there is a demand for guns from criminals, there will be a supplier willing to sell them, no matter how illegal it may be.

 

The problem in the US is not that there are too many guns, it's that the justice system is not punishing criminals enough to deter crime. Our prisoners get cable TV & conjugal visits from girlfriends they've picked up on the internet until they've served 1/3 of their sentences & are let go due to not having enough room. The saddest thing of all is that the things that actually are a deterent to going to jail are themselves crimes such as getting raped in the shower or getting shanked in the exercise yard. Pathetic!

 

Unfortunately, a lot of our leaders & politicians have the same views as you, & in their opinion the criminals are the helpless victims while the law abiding citizen who protects himself or his family from harm or death is himself labeled as the criminal for not standing idly by & watching as the criminal did as he pleased.

 

Do you know how many more Columbine shootings we didn't have because law abiding citizens used their legally owned firearms to prevent them? Do you know how many fathers got to go home to their wives & children because they were able to defend themselves while their businesses were being robbed at gunpoint? Do you know how many mothers & daughters were not raped or murdered by some sick psycho because the moms carry guns in their purses?

[razorace]

I think while JM Qui-Gon Jinn has a good point, he's missing the main reason why we have guns, in the US, in the first place. The Founding Fathers didn't have to mess with violence crimes and school shooting. They had to deal with governmental powers taking away their liberties. Guns are dangerous weapons and that's why citizens must have them. If you don't have the tools to defend yourself and your family against governmental oppression, what can you do when your government or enemies comes to you? You die, you and your family are sent to death camps, etc. Do you think there'd been massive genocide in WWII or in Africa if common citizens had had the inferstucture to own guns?

 

And please don't try to feed me some bull about governments having "changed" and no longer having to fear oppression by the government. Most of the world's population lives under oppressive governments now and governments can fall suddenly and without warning. As long as people govern people, there will always be the possibility of oppression. Heck, we Americas have lost many rights in the last year in the name of Fighting Terrorism.

 

In closing, if you're worried about having a firearm, don't buy one. But you'll have to pry my K-Mart Special from my cold dead hands before I give mine up.

[munik]

After reading all this, I see at the end a few posts saying what I wanted to say. The 2nd ammendment pertains to citizens protecting themselves from the government. Does no one see the irony in suggesting that the government take away the peoples means of protecting themselves from the government? That's a ludicrous idea.

 

While I agree that the US has much higher shooting deaths then anywhere else is in direct relation to the fact that guns are legal, I don't believe banning guns is the answer. I for one am willing to accept the price of people killing each other over silly things if that means I can have the right to protect myself and my way of life. And to those who keep bringing up school shootings, ya'll need to unplug yourselves from the T.V. and wake up to reality. Maybe 40 kids got killed from shootings in school. I believe I'm guessing high with that number as well. That's only 40. While tragic, it is by no means an epidemic or anything like that. In New York City, on average, 100 people per month are murdered with firearms. 100 per month vs. 40ish ever.

 

 

I'd say a majority of the types of firearms are illegal in the US. Most assualt weapons, and automatic weapons, and most high calliber guns or weapons of war are illegal. That leaves you with pistols, shotguns, and hunting rifles. Hardly the tools of a murderer looking to make a high body count. Yes, they can and are used in murders, but if you are looking to own a weapon in which to commit a crime, you would be a fool to shop at Wal-Mart for it. The right tool for the right job. You would get an illegal weapon. In case you haven't been following the train of thought here, these illegal weapons are illegal because it's been decided(with much debate and dissention) that their sole purpose is to kill people, and kill them quickly. The superstore weapons are most likely used in crimes of passion, because they are the easiest and quickest tools available. A knife or a 2x4 or a chair would work as well, but a decisive person will do it the quickest and easiest. A fool would do it otherwise.

 

 

And while I agree that most statistics are made up, 40,000 doesn't sound too bad at all. It's vague though. How many were self inflicted (suicide)? How many were accidental (accidental discharge while cleaning, etc)? How many were outright murders(pre-meditated, passion)? How many were the shooting of an attacker(killing someone before they kill you)?

That's like saying 40,000 people are killed a year by automobiles, and all are intentional vehicular manslaughter. It's just not true, a simple number pulled out of your ass and twisted to help justify your argument.

 

 

 

Munik

[BlackDove]

We invent some kind of a virus that hurts guns and makes the die (enhanced rust O.o;;;;; ) and we all get back to the sword age.....

[Breton]

My point is that guns will not protect you, bullets can't deflect bullets. Therefore, having a gun makes it more dangerous for you (mugger points at you with gun, you point at mugger with gun, mugger gets panicced and shoots), and we can all agree that having a gun cannot protect you.

 

The point that US is the most likely place to be shot and killed in peace time, 40 000 does get killed every year, this is not something I have made up. So we can also agree that legalisation of guns make US a quite dangerous place.

 

And we should all share a thought to little 3-year old Bill who found a gun in his father closet and accidentely pulled the trigger while pointing at himself.

 

So the thing about legal guns cannot protect you or anything, it only does that you are more likely to be shot.

[Jah Warrior]

This is ridiculous, anyone that thinks owning a weapon to kill anyone must be a barbarian.

 

As somebody else in a prevoius post mentioned there are no guns for sale in the UK, I don't think anyone would want one if it were legal, the reason being, we see what guns are doing to the US on TV and the news etc, and well, It is so obvious that the free availability of guns in the US has turned it into a DANGEROUS place.

 

I'll give an example,

 

I know about half a dozen people that have been to the US on holiday recently. One of them got threatened at gun point in a miami night club for talking to some guys woman. he was potentially in a life or death situation, for talking to somebody. That is soooooo sensible.

 

Now say guns werent available in the US, they would have settled it with a damn good punch up like we do over here. OK a broken nose or a couple of busted knuckles may be inflicted but they will heal. the likelihood of killing anyone in a punch up is slim, don't get me wrong I certainly do not condone this action, I have been on the receiving end myself.

 

My point is, that if guns were available here I'm pretty sure i would be dead now as the guy i got a beating from was a local gangster type dude. I'm glad I'm here to tell the tale even if my nose is a bit crooked now.

[Clem]

to canoli .... statistics can be made to say what u want them to

 

statistics are flawed in this way

 

so dont use them .... theyre useless ... made up or not ... if they ignore a crucial variable oreven if u only use certain stats .... they tell a misleading story

 

@ every1 guns cannot defend u .... they can merely kill the person thats attacking u .... in a gunfight ...most likely both people get killed... if u want to defend urselves .... body armour would be an idea

[TKMaim]

I do believe in registration of firearms. It only makes sense to attempt to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.

On the other hand I don't condone banning weapons (save for fully automatic models) becuase I support hunting in my state.

 

For those of you who don't think hunting is necessary please read the following:

In WI where I'm from last year our estimated deer population was at approx 1.4 million deer in August 2001. Our hunting season took 280,000 deer give or take a thousand. This year our estimated deer population is 1.6 million. We have an overpopulation explosion happening. Due to this some deer in our state have contracted a disease known as CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease). It resembles Mad Cow Disease but is not trasmitable to humans. This epidemic combined with dear-vehicle collisions, and crop damage has cost my state billions.

 

Please don't tell me that hunting doesn't help, becuase it does....just not enough.

 

Someone suggested earlier to bring in the National Gaurd/Army to cull the herd. Unfortunately that's not an option due to cost.

Our hunters pay a license fee each year to deer hunt. It's not alot but it does help. Now if we take away that right we lose millions in licensing fees as well as the additional cost of bringing in some from of deer control, whether it be Poisoning/Baiting/or wholesale slaughter by an outside group(Army/NG).

 

Personally I don't hunt, but I DO respect the rights of others to do so.

 

If there came a time when the herd was culled down enough to limit hunting I would wholeheartedly agree with limits on firearm ownership, but until that time we need all the help we can get....

[CenturiOn]

ROFL

 

i voted NO because i thought he was talking about the guns in JO

 

HAHAHA LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Mafia_Jabba]

U.S. a dangerous place to live...LMAO thats gotta be the biggest load of #### i ever heard in my god damn life....omg well it all depends on where you ARE in the US brother. If you are in downtown urban area, sure it'll be dangerous. If you are in a high society sub urban area it'll be quite less dangerous all because of the PEOPLE that are there.

 

GUNS are not the problem u smart guys. Education is the problem. Standard of living is the problem. A poor guy shoots a rich guy for money, its not because he had a gun is it? A thug shoots you in the street. Its not because he had a gun is it? Its because they dont know any better. Ok.

 

The US kicks ass and is not dangerous btw, I've never been threatened in my life and I live possibly the poorest area in the nation. LMAO and thats 17 years not a HOLIDAY.

 

Thanks

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Sidewinder05

ROFL

 

i voted NO because i thought he was talking about the guns in JO

 

HAHAHA LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

:rofl::lol::rofl:

[Darth_Lando]

Um. Getting rid of guns will not make me safe.

 

However, getting rid of guns may reduce my chances of being killed by a gun though that is not for certain.

 

Take for instance MURDER.

 

Murder is illegal, does that stop people from murdering? No. They don't obey the law they are criminals

 

Now in an effort to stop murder you now make guns illegal.

 

So, if you think someone who wants to murder someone will not get a gun because they are illegal? Come on murder is illegal! Sheeesh. Criminals don't obey the laws that is why they are criminals. Making more laws isn't going to magically make criminals the sweetest people on earth. They don't care.

[razorace]

My point is that guns will not protect you, bullets can't deflect bullets. Therefore, having a gun makes it more dangerous for you (mugger points at you with gun, you point at mugger with gun, mugger gets panicced and shoots), and we can all agree that having a gun cannot protect you.

 

That's very true, but you could just a easily kill the mugger. Guns give you a more equal the chance for survival. Plus, like nukes, they are deterent against invasion, oppression, etc. Fighting against a nation with armed citizens vs. a nation without is much harder especially in urban / close range enviroments. Why do you think the US / UN forces in Afgan are taking so many casulties? Our forces are having to fight in confined, close spaces against heavy armed people.

 

The point that US is the most likely place to be shot and killed in peace time, 40 000 does get killed every year, this is not something I have made up. So we can also agree that legalisation of guns make US a quite dangerous place.

 

You gotta source for that 40,000 number? That still sounds too high. That's about the same as car accident fatalities and car accidents are less preventable than gun accidents. Does that mean we should ban cars?

 

And is that "highest" numberwise or per capita? Per capitawise, I'd imagine Isreal has a higher per capita rate than we do.

 

And we should all share a thought to little 3-year old Bill who found a gun in his father closet and accidentely pulled the trigger while pointing at himself.[/qoute]

 

While the death of children is always horrible, is it MY fault that that father was stupid to not teach his child gun safety AND not keep the gun where the child couldn't get to it? Should I lose the right to buy gasoline because some idiot blew himself up with it? Laws are for protecting us from unreasonable hurt, not a idiot protector.

 

This is ridiculous, anyone that thinks owning a weapon to kill anyone must be a barbarian.

 

I have no desire to kill. I have a gun so that it is there when I may need it. We live in a barbaric world filled with people who desire to be your master. What do you do to prevent that?

[Clem]

THATS NO REASON TO MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM!

[Mafia_Jabba]

i'd rather someone kill someone with a gun than a knife, much more easier to capture i think, its not easier dude, i mean if they are going to kill they are going to kill. If a murderer will not carry a gun he will carry a knife from wal mart. thats not making it harder, thats just making the death more painful.

[razorace]

It will always be "easy" for criminals to find guns in a "free" society. Blackmarkets exist in every society.

[Qui-GONE Jinn]

Why would you want to kill the mugger? and live with another's life on your conscience the rest of your life? Okay, he tried to take your money, but this isn't black and white! the mugger isn't the incarnation of evil! every case has two sides.

 

And if a guy comes at you with a knife, run! if he comes with a gun, give him your money then call the police! no lives lost!