Unique Units for SW:GB 2

[Darth Windu]

Thought id make a thread for ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2.

 

1. Confederacy - Geonosian Warrior, Destroyer Droid, Animal predators

2. Trade Federation - Destroyer Droid, Grapple Droid (Jedi Power Battles)

3. Empire - Probot, Super Star Destoryer (Super Air Cruiser), Dark Trooper

4. Rebels - Airspeeder, A-wing, Bothan Spy

5. Republic - Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Knight/Master (remove jedi normal unit), Gunship

6. Naboo - Royal Crusader

7. Gungans - Fambaa shield, Amphibious trooper

8. Wookies - Berserker, Forest scout

 

New Units-

1. Grapple droid - melee unit

2. Super star Destroyer - larger air cruiser with better range, hp etc

3. Bothan Spy - like spy in C&C: Red Alert, get it into opponents buildings and you can see what their building

4. Jedi Starfighter - faster fighter with jedi abilities such as cloaking

5. Gunship - well armoured assault troop transport, would come with mech transport with lower carriage abilities compared to other civs

6. Jedi Knight/Master - like in the game, except only research from knight to master (master gets turning, cloaking etc)

7. Amphibious trooper - normal trooper that can swim

8. Forest scout - infantry scout with mech scout abilities except slower, but can walk through forests

 

Thoughts?

[jcb231]

I don't like the idea of only republic having jedi.

[Kryllith]

I wasn't sure how to read that myself. Would this mean that Republic would be the only civ to get Jedi? Or perhaps they'd be the only civ to get Jedi Masters? Or would they have the ability to turn all their Knights into Masters via any upgrade, rather than having Knights and Masters being different units? The last option was the way I initially read it...

 

Kryllith

[Sithmaster_821]

OMFG, you've got to be kidding me. Gunship thread #5! Dont argue that there are other ideas. Just shut up about the gunship.

Also, I think i addressed this idea before, there will, and you can quote me, be no SWGB2. It was just Lucasarts testing the RTS waters. It was a small scale project to try and reinvent the Star Wars RTS before they make a mass market game of their own. And they will not use the AoK structure in the game, nor will they copy the units from SWGB. You have to think outside the box, windu, I know its hard for you. They will instead strive for a more Star Wars feel with unique unit sets per civ, not the AoK structure with generic units and one or two unique units.

 

Even if there is a sequel (when pigs fly), it wont:

1 Use some else's engine

2 Copy the units from SWGB

3 Stick to the game structure of AoK

[jcb231]

I disagree....SWGB sold very very well. LA would be dumb not to release a sequel...even if they don't actually call it SWGB2. And along those lines...why would LA go to the trouble of creating an engine from scratch when they could alter and update the existing engine further or find another game's engine for a sequel? Their work would be half done. Less work equals more profit, and tried and true game engines assure that the fans'll like it. And they already tested the RTS waters with Rebellion and Force Commander. Battlegrounds WAS their mass market game to appease the hordes of people who complained Force Commander should have been more like AoK. LA basically said "You want a game that's more like AoK? Well here ya go...look kids, its AoK with Star Wars units" and then wiped its collective brow in relief over not having to create a new game engine. I say that LA will release a second x-pack to the current game sometime within the next year, provided sales continue to be good...Graber said as much in one of his posts....if the interest is there there will be additional x-packs. I'd then expect the next Star Wars RTS game (whether it be a straight sequel or a different style) to appear shortly before ep III...maybe in time for xmas season of 2004, with an expansion pack to coincide with the new movie in summer of 2005, like they did this time around with the game release in the fall of 2001 and then ep II and the Clone Campaigns pack in summer 2002. I couldn't think of a better opportunity than that...LA would cash in on the new movie just like they did this time around with ep II.

[Sithmaster_821]

SWGB sold very very well

Try moderately well.

why would LA go to the trouble of creating an engine from scratch when they could alter and update the existing engine further or find another game's engine for a sequel?

Most people's (from critics to the average consumer) biggest problem with the game (and the main reason it wasnt mass marketed) was the fact that it used some one else's engine. Its not about profits, its about ethics and respectabiltity.

Battlegrounds WAS their mass market game to appease the hordes of people who complained Force Commander should have been more like AoK

Its clear that most of your info is secondhand. SWGB was an under the radar game that used a tried and true engine to reinvent and improve the Star Wars RTS after the mass market flops of Rebellion and Force Commander. It was merely a faith building and learning experience for Lucasarts.

if the interest is there

You are aware that we have a online community of 600 people. Thats the same amount the old AoE has right now.

 

I hate being the cynical one, but its the truth no matter how hard it is to swallow.

[Darth Windu]

Sithmaster - this thread is about my ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2. It is logical that i would include the Gunship as a Republic unique unit idea.

 

As for the Jedi thing. The idea would be that the Republic is the one civ to get Jedi, with the Master an upgrade of the Knight (like the Jedi Starfighter / Adv Jedi Starfighter) Main reason being that if you look at the different civs, the Republic is the only one who should get jedi. Why? Look at the number of jedi for each civ-

 

Naboo = 0

Wookies = 0

Gungans = 0

Confederacy = 1 (Dath Tryannus/Count Dooku)

Trade Federation = 1 (Darth Maul)

Empire = 2 (Dath Vader, Darth Sidious)

Rebels = 1 (Luke Skywalker)

Republic = 10,000 (according to the booklet of 'Jedi Power Battles')

 

The other civs would get jedi, but only the hero's (ie the empire would be able to use vader and sidious)

[jcb231]

Sithmaster....

 

-What exactly do you consider "Mass Market" then?

Everywhere I turn is selling SWGB and CC.....EB, Toys R Us, Wal Mart, Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, Office Depot, K-Mart, catalogs, online sites, etc, etc, etc....anymore mass market and they'd be selling it at gas stations, roadside stands, and McDonalds.

I saw GB at far more stores and advertised way more than Force Commander OR Rebellion. It also got more attention in most gaming and computer magazines I saw than either of those games.

 

-It still sold pretty darn well. Compare it to many other games out there and its one of the more popular ones to have come out in the last few months. It certainly sold well enough to warrant the expansion, and I say it warrants a second expansion....if they released a second expansion "under the radar" as you say, they would most assuredly make a tidy profit still, even if the mass market isn't ready for a second one yet.

 

-The game still got very good reviews overall....the recycled engine complaint was small in virtually every review I read.

The logic here is if its a good engine, its a good engine. I'd far rather play with an established game engine than a new, untested, crappy engine like the Force Commander one. And its not abour "ethics and responsibility" its about making a fun, good game that yes, does turn a tidy profit. Therefore an established engine is the smart way to go....people already like it and will therefore buy it.

 

-600 people online? Who cares? Online alone does not define a game, and the last time I checked the were more than 600 anyway. And besides, that's still good for a game that came out in November, especially since Civ III and Warcraft III have come out in the meantime. Yeah, it's not "The Sims" good, but what is?

[Sithmaster_821]

Jcb: You misunderstood me. SWGB is by far a better game than most people give it credit and I play it almost exclusively (also play AoC). This is what happened. Force Commander, which was heavily publisized(SP?) was panned and flopped sale-wise. The higher-ups in Lucasarts decided to rethink and refurbish their RTS games using a proven engine and a low press game which was really passed on by word of mouth. SWGB did better than expected, so Lucasarts decided to see how far they could milk the game and thus mass market CC through ads and making it the only Episode 2 game to go on to the computer. SWGB is a very good game but the major RTS is still to come. A respectable game producer like Lucasarts wouldnt dare hurt its integrity and use someone else's work in their big game. Also the money you save in work done is lost in royalties.

 

Windu: Ive long since given up on your intelligence level. You do realize that when Lucasarts uses its own engine it wont fit the unit stucture of AoK. So your ideas are just pointless blabbing.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Those are good ideas, but the Naboo should get 2 more UUs and Super Battle Droids should remain the Confid's troopers.

[jcb231]

I see some of your points, but it still seems to me like there was an awful lot of press attention and advertisements for GB, the original. It hardly seems under the radar or not mass market.

 

Also, from what I've read, the royalites for this game were not exorbitantly high. Microsoft seemed pretty willing to let LA use its engine for a decent price and the attention it brings to the Zone.

 

Also, didn't they use the Quake III engine, or some other similar existing first person shooter engine, for Jedi Knight II? I don't think that using an established engine makes you less respectable...that's like saying that programming in an established code or using an established OS makes you not respectable. I think the goal of a game manufacturer is to make games that are fun to play (and turn a profit). If the game is fun, who cares if the engine has been used before? I say its respectable to make fun games like GB, and not respectable to make a crappy untested engine and hock it to the unsuspecting public, a la Force Commander.

[Darth Windu]

sithmaster - you dont know that. As the game was based on AoK with mainly generic units and a few unique units, my idea's will be based on that.

 

crazyus - yes they should, i just couldnt think of any for them

[Sithmaster_821]

you dont know that

I dont know what?

 

Jcb, i read all the info i posted in some interview a long time ago. Thats Lucasarts reasons behind SWGB, it came from the horses mouth (i think). Also, although i maybe wrong, wasnt JKII merely outsourced to Raven?

[Darth Windu]

sithmaster - my 'you dont know that' comment was refering to you saying that with a sequel, the units wouldnt fit the AoK unit structure. At the moment two of the newsest games out there, AoM and RoN both fit that structure.

[Sithmaster_821]

It has become evident how little you truly know about either game. AoM uses a unique unit set per culture, and the three major gods per culture share that set and the different playstyle of the culture. Major gods are like civs and have 3-4 bonuses, one of which being pretty major and game changing. Each age you chose between two minor gods that offer their own myth unit, godpower and three myth techs.

 

RoN uses a widespread unit structure that spans all of time. It concentrates on city building and all that other tbs junk ( simwiz). Its units strengthes are based on the resources you have.

 

If all you know about a game is stuff gleaned off screenies, then dont open your big mouth because you are most likely wrong.

[Darth Windu]

sithmaster - as i said, as there is no indication that lucasarts is going to go to a radically different engine, the only thing to do is base new ideas on the assumption that the engine will be very similar to the current engine.

[Sithmaster_821]

radically different engine

those are the two closest engines. As i said before, lucasarts will not copy an engine for obvious reasons.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

It has become evident how little you truly know about either game. AoM uses a unique unit set per culture, and the three major gods per culture share that set and the different playstyle of the culture. Major gods are like civs and have 3-4 bonuses, one of which being pretty major and game changing. Each age you chose between two minor gods that offer their own myth unit, godpower and three myth techs.

 

RoN uses a widespread unit structure that spans all of time. It concentrates on city building and all that other tbs junk ( simwiz). Its units strengthes are based on the resources you have.

 

I'm all for flaming Windu for his stupid ideas here, especially only the republic getting jedi and his 5th gunship lamentation. But as for RoN, you are using information gleaned off biased AoM forums that is not at all accurate. It would be like me basing my opinion of RTS in general off of stuff found in a civ3 forum. Using that I would call all RTS "clickfests", shallow, boring, pointless war-games lacking anything more than destroy-or-be-destroyed mentality. If you checked the RoN websites rather than believing the WC3/AoM types (who likely hate TBS and all TBS concepts) you would realize that RoN is more than city building, it is actually making a country while possibly fighting wars and using real diplomacy (not some lame checkbox for ally, nuetral, enemy). This makes for a much more interesting game, with the object being to use war AND/OR diplomacy to obtain a superior nation, rather than the traditional RTS pointless war of "destroy his base before he destroys mine".

 

And btw, AoM is just Ensemble's attempt to please both the Age and WC groups by merging the two,with heroes, god powers, etc.

[Sithmaster_821]

you are using information gleaned off biased AoM forums that is not at all accurate

Actually i used info gleaned off you. And at AoM forums, we dont talk about other games. We actually have some decency. Maybe that shows whose game is better.

war AND/OR diplomacy

Yeah! 5 hour games where everyone plays SimCity and builds ice cream shops to keep their people happy. Earth to simwiz-people play strategy games to do war and kill things. No one wants to make pretty buildings or expand their borders or find horses.

And btw, AoM is just Ensemble's attempt to please both the Age and WC groups by merging the two,with heroes, god powers, etc.

Umm...no. And fyi, RoN is just a merger of the Age series and the civ series.

 

I wasnt flaming RoN, just windu.

[DemonKing]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

Jcb: The higher-ups in Lucasarts decided to rethink and refurbish their RTS games using a proven engine and a low press game which was really passed on by word of mouth.

 

blabbing.

 

I think after a number of flops and sub-par games LucasArts realised that they didn't have the in-house talent to produce AAA titles anymore, and decided to farm out more projects to top developers and/or use established engines, hence:

 

1. SW:GB using AOK engine.

2. Jedi Knight II by Raven, using Quake III engine

3. SW:KOTOR by Bioware

4. SW: Galaxies by Sony

 

Regards,

[Darth Windu]

simwiz - exactly h0ow is the Republic only having Jedi stupid? Exactly which civ, not including the 'hero' units, has jedi? Only the Republic has them, and so the other civs would get melee units, just not as good (ie wookie berserker, federation grapple droid)

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

Thought id make a thread for ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2.

 

3. Empire - ...Super Star Destoryer (Super Air Cruiser)...

5. Republic - Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Knight/Master (remove jedi normal unit), Gunship

 

New Units-

11. Super star Destroyer - larger air cruiser with better range, hp etc

12. Bothan Spy - like spy in C&C: Red Alert, get it into opponents buildings and you can see what their building

14. Gunship - well armoured assault troop transport, would come with mech transport with lower carriage abilities compared to other civs

15. Jedi Knight/Master - like in the game, except only research from knight to master (master gets turning, cloaking etc)

16. Amphibious trooper - normal trooper that can swim

17. Bongo - frigate that can carry 2 infantry units

18. Forest scout - infantry scout with mech scout abilities except slower, but can walk through forests

 

Thoughts?

 

3 - Is this supposed to be another incarnation of your later "AT-AT of the skies" Gunship with rediculous overpowered stats? Give it a rest.

 

5 - Republic are the only civ to get Jedi? This is outlandish. Many people who buy the game will not know what a gunship is, what a starfighter is, how many jedi each civ had. Many people want the star wars experience, which most definately includes jedi. If this were limited to one civ it would likely result in many less-dedicated star wars fans putting the game on the shelf. And shut up about the damn gunship already. Just look on one of your 4 other Gunship threads for reasons why it will not work.

 

11 - OMG, you have got to be kidding me. Better RANGE?? Are you aware that the current air cruiser already has enough range to make it one of the most destructive units in the game, it has one of the highest ground attack range of any unit that is not burdened by a deploy/undeploy requirement. They have rather high HP's already, and more armor would make them almost indestructible. You want an overpowered unit to beat the AI with on easiest. Just admit it.

 

12 - Not sure how this works but I believe it would be a micromanaging hell. During the battles one does not have time to go around placing spies manually about his opponents empire. However, I think the Bothan Spies tech should be changed so that you can see their buildings LoS, not their units.

 

14 - You just don't know when to shut up about something.

 

15 - Wasn't aware that these were new units.

 

16 - And some more of the map-specific civs that was already discussed and argued about. So let's see, you balance Gungans on water maps, then they are useless on say a flats map. You balance them on land maps and they will be overpowered on a rivers map.

 

17 - OMG, its the useless Gunship of the water. Windu, you just can't give up on the Gunship for some reason, even though it has been proven faulty many times.

 

18 - Well it's not as bad as your amphibious trooper idea but it would need to be carefully balanced. Also the wookiee player might just roach the unit in the forests, and only air units could get at it, making for a long, boring endgame even after the game is ovbiously won.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

(1) Actually i used info gleaned off you. And at AoM forums, we dont talk about other games. We actually have some decency. Maybe that shows whose game is better.

 

(2) Yeah! 5 hour games where everyone plays SimCity and builds ice cream shops to keep their people happy. Earth to simwiz-people play strategy games to do war and kill things. No one wants to make pretty buildings or expand their borders or find horses.

 

1 - How did you glean info off of me? I rarely post about RoN on these forums. And I never said that the RoN forumers talk excessively about AoM, just the Civ3 forumers do, which shows that civ3 sucks, i agree with that. Btw, AoM forums DO have posts about RoN.

 

2 - What??? Simcity? Umm...no. AND THERE ARE NO ICE CREAM SHOPS!!!!! Find horses? AoM has horses!! And their main target is "history in a lunch hour", not 5 hours.

 

Everything you have said about RoN is the almost exact copy of what I have seen on an AoM forum. Were I to take what came up in a RoN forum comparison post "What game is going to do the best" I would be saying that AoM was just a dumb childish fantasy game, and that Age was becoming more like WC. Now I know none of that is accurate (except the WC one ), just as nothing you have said about RoN is accurate.

 

RoN is trying to merge two different types of games, and if successful it will be a unique and fun game. AoM is just trying to make a bit more money by appealing to both Age and WC fans.

 

If the Age series' past record is considered, AoM will be a mess of overpowered units (Paladins), worthless units and super-civ (Huns) and n00b civs (Koreans), and uncounterable strategies (teurton TC rush, which should have never made it past beta testing). Only it will be much worse because now there are heroes, god powers (*cough, warcraft's spells) that all need balancing. And as their record for game balance is poor, it will be a complete mess.

[Sithmaster_821]

AoM forums DO have posts about RoN

Will, you never go to AoM forums, and i told you everything you know about AoM.

AoM has horses

Yeah, but their horses arent resoures

n00b civs (Koreans)

What was that mr. my-koreans-own-you

If the Age series' past record is considered, AoM will be a mess of overpowered units (Paladins), worthless units and super-civ (Huns) and n00b civs (Koreans), and uncounterable strategies (teurton TC rush, which should have never made it past beta testing). Only it will be much worse because now there are heroes, god powers (*cough, warcraft's spells) that all need balancing. And as their record for game balance is poor, it will be a complete mess.

Ensemble has the best balancing after this game (which they gave balancing suggestions to).

How did you glean info off of me

a little invention i call the telephone.

 

You and i both know that youre gonna buy AoM, and dont really believe in what you say.

 

On to Windu. Do you realize that it is still possible to become a respectable forumer, even with your track record? People will eventually forgive and forget all of your stupid posts (there have been lots) if you would only try to sound intelligent and reasonable. I thought maybe you had learned your lesson when posted that rep/reb tech switch, but no, you have to blow it with this thread and two others that contain as much intellect as a jar of mayonaise. Not to mention you have a better chance of getting change from a vending machine than you do with those ideas. Before posting, think: is this a good idea? Does this idea make me look like i have a negative IQ? Should i reveal this crazed thing to the public? Also, become more knowledgeable. There is more than enough info about AoM at this site. I dont know about RoN, ask simwiz. Read up on how to be a better player like not grouping all of your units in one group. I think theres a QandA forum here for newbies like yourself. You'll notice the faint swelling in your skull from your brain growing after following these suggestions and you'll come back a normal human being. Until then, my peanut-brained amigo, please try hard not to sound as dumb as you really are.

[Darth Windu]

simwiz - i disagree, making the jedi a republic unique unit is the best thing lucasarts could do. As i said, the Republic is the only civ with jedi (apart from hero's) and also, the other civs would be compensated with melee UU's.

 

Also, with the map-specific units, it really doesnt matter, civs like the TF and gungans are disadvantaged on non-water maps, so having map-specific units wouldnt make much different. Also, the wookie forest scout would be able to be attacked by any unit, its ability would be being able to move through forests.

 

With the spy, there is a bit of micromanagement, but it works really well, ask anyone who has played Command & Conquer: Red Alert and most would say that the spy is one of the most useful units because by seeing what your enemy is building, you can build a force to stop the army of your enemy before it is complete.