Divine Spirit Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I dont want to sound like those whinging political correctness people but im just suggesting this as a theory! After watching the Matrix yesterday was thinking about the Lobby scene and i think its morally wrong what Neo and Trinity did. They shot dead many of those security guards who only had handguns and didnt look physically fit. Why did Neo and Trinity have to shoot them to peices when they didnt need need to? Instead they could have thrown sleeping gas canisters into the room or something, and then go in there and tie up the men! It doesnt matter if the alarm goes off becuase it went off in the original plan so its not as if theyve lost anything! Like many men, im sure these security guards had a wife and kids at home who will now remain widowed or fatherless thanks to the gun-ho attitudes of Neo and Trinity. Just think how much pain and suffering this caused the the family and friends of the security guards? Imagen how distraught you would be if your father was shot to peices just because he was a security guard! I think it would be ok for Neo and Trinity to kill the special guards because they were obviously better trained and had better armour and weapons. And in a different part of the Matrix story, the oracle told Neo he would be in a situation where he would have to decide between his life and morphius'. This event didnt happen in The matrix 1 because both Neo and Morphius survived so this means the event is likely to take place in one of the next Matrix films. Who do you think will die? Will it be Morphius, the more predictable person who we assume will be the one to die or will it be Neo, a big twist in the storyline and a far more unexpected person? Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I also thought that the first time I saw it , and the more I watched the movie, the more I thought about it. Its one of those "do the ends justify the means?" things. well, do they? yes I think the guards were doing their jobs trying earn money for their families, but working for the enemy without knowing it. They couldn't be reasoned with, so their deaths were an acceptable loss because trinity and neo had to save morpheus so that the three of them could save millions and millions more humans from the matrix. I would just consider them sacrafises for the main cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterminator234 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 its a movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reb Starblazer Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I'm not sure on the exact wording, but I remember the oracle saying "one of you will die, and you have to decide who it will be", or something along those lines. And then later of course, Neo gets shot by Agent Smith at the end of the movie. He flatlines, trinity kisses him, he comes back. But the main point is, he flatlined, which means he technically died, so the Oracle was right. Also, like Morpheus said, "she told you exactly what you needed to hear." By telling Neo he wasn't the one, he thought Morpeheus' life was more valuable then his. He went to save Morpheus, and all of the events which lead to Neo discovering who he was, fell into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 for ur information, neo DID die (the ending were he was shot at room 303 and had a flat line) so the oracle was right. neither morpheus or neo will die in the sequels. neo cant die cause hes the one and morpheus also stays alive cause hes the only person to know the access codes to zion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Nasty Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 yeah that kinda confused me cos they were sposed to help the humans but they kill hords of them who arent evil at one point trinity grabs the shotgun off a guard then shoots him while he is unarmed and about what the oracle said Reb Starblazer has it right i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 its a movie .... if they had walked in and reasoned with the guards over a cup of coffee ..... no1 wouldve watched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterminator234 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Clem its a movie .... if they had walked in and reasoned with the guards over a cup of coffee ..... no1 wouldve watched exactly what i meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 posted by exterminator its a movie yes, yes it is, thank you for your observation. NOW STFU IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING HELPFULL TO SAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 questioning if its morally right leeds to nothing. whats the point? besides, u could ask the same moral question about a lot of other movies, so stuff it. and it still stays a movie ppl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Nasty Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 i know its a movie and everything and i admit that scene is great to watch. but i just reckon it contradicts the characters a bit neo and trinity are sposed to be good people but it doesnt seem to bother them at all that they are killing innocent people it just makes them seem a bit nasty they could have used stun grenades or tranquilizer guns but they chose to kill them all anyway i better stop now cos i see that i annoy people when i say stuff like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." read this my friend. and an agent can "mutate" out off an innocent persons body. when these ppl r killed they arent any threat. and maybe its a good thing, its 1 person less giving his duracell powers to the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I already answered this in the original Matrix thread and I can't be bothered to say it all over again! http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Lexx, these guys do have a point - they didn't NEED to shoot them, but they did. The question is time. They simply didn't have enough time to tie up all those men or sedate them. Time was short, morpheus needed to be rescued VERY quickly - he was about to give the access codes to the agents. Otherwise, lexx's explanation counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Like msotp eople said, even tho they're innocent they part of the matrix and an agent can become one of them. Also they didn't have much time otherwise morpheus would have cracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 "There is no spoon" Morpheus said himself that they were the enemy, that they would defend the system by all means. So they weren't really innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by Padanime questioning if its morally right leeds to nothing. whats the point? besides, u could ask the same moral question about a lot of other movies, so stuff it. and it still stays a movie ppl This theory is meant to lead to an interesting debate...what do u expect? a petition to officially change the film? Originally posted by Padanime neither morpheus or neo will die in the sequels. neo cant die cause hes the one and morpheus also stays alive cause hes the only person to know the access codes to zion. And for your information, it mentions in the film that every captain of the ships like Nebuchaneza (sp?) knows the access codes so morpheus isnt needed to get into zion. and also, just because Neo is "the one" why does that make him invincible? the name "the one" suggests he has a destiny - and in this case it is to bring down the matrix. whos to say that Neo cant bring down the matrix and THEN die? Originally posted by Exterminator234 its a movie Thats an interesting theory, give your self a medal! My theory is just a talking point or a suggestion....im NOT SAYING neo and trinity shouldnt have done what they did, im just saying that it might have been a morally wrong thing to do! I suppose i didnt think of Neo dying for 1 minute as actually the event that the oracle mentioned....its kinda disappointing because i was hoping there would be some massive dilema about who will live and who will die it would be even better than the dilema at the end of minority report! I just had this wicked idea....well u know how in star wars yoda is the little old guy who's never in the action until we saw him kick arse in Ep2? i wonder if the oracle totally owns some agents in The Matrix 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 There is no spoon in the matrix there is here Oracle kicking ass in matrix 2 lol!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterminator234 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by Nebelwerfer_ yes, yes it is, thank you for your observation. NOW STFU IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING HELPFULL TO SAY! [/b] it is helpful, you need to remember that it is fiction and never really happened. if it never happened, what do you care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." Read this, disscussion over. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 neo died in The Matrix (part 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Rp's right...he did die...and he came back...problem solved! And I agree with you Divine about the morality involved in the lobby scene...it was simply wrong:(... ...but looked cool:) Triple kick!!:Dhehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 originally posted by padanime and it still stays a movie ppl really? I thought it was a pair of socks! no wonder I'm getting bunions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by teutonicknight Read this, disscussion over. Nuff said. im actually trying to have a discussion about the subject, not just end it with a quote Originally posted by Nebelwerfer_ really? I thought it was a pair of socks! no wonder I'm getting bunions. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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