Reason why JK2 Community is dying..

[Dunpeel]

Simple. Raven doesn't know how to patch games. After every patch, a big chunk of the players left because the game was altered waaay too much.

 

All they did was respond to the newbies who die too fast. It's all because of the success of counterstrike which is very newbie friendly and attracted a large number of people. It's the only FPS game that u can not move and spam and skill kill people. It's purely made for morons that have no gaming experience and just plain suck at games.

 

Course everyone who complained about all these moves that were patched were all newbies that did not know how to dodge or counter anything. Hell, i'm willing to bet some of these whiners are keyboard cowboys.

 

Raven only cares about profit and they see that profit is targetting mass market, which means they want even the dumbest of people be able to play the game. So any whining about anything that makes them die to fast will be patched.

[ShockV1.89]

Raven only cares about profit and they see that profit is targetting mass market,

 

What'd you expect, a charity?

[Mr Tim]

Counterstrike may once have been newbie friendly, but because there's so many people playing now who have been playing for so long, it would be very hard for a 'newbie' since they would have not a clue compared to the others.

 

Anyway, the JK2 patches changed a few things, but not all that much. The core gameplay is still the same - it's really only 'practically uncounterable' moves (note: I didn't say completely uncounterable) like a DFA that changes direction in mid-air and the pull-backstab combo thing that have been toned down.

 

Obviously it's not perfect, but I don't think you can simply attribute it to be Raven being newbie-friendly. Enough people complained from all sides of the JK2 Community about things that needed to be included in patches, and I think Raven has tried to accomodate as many people as possible.

 

And enough with the JK2 is dying thing. It's still selling. People are still playing. Obviously it's not the behemoth that Counterstrike is, but get over it.

[Nibb]

a newbie can kill a better player more easier with a backstab then with his saber skill. so what is more newbie friendly?

 

hope my english isnt to bad:D

[Darth Kaan]

You can play 1.02, 1.03 or 1.04, or 1.04 with promod (no problem finding servers running promod). You have at least three choices, actually more with the plethora of mods that are available.

 

Stop whining about Raven's patches.

[ShockV1.89]

Originally posted by Nibb

a newbie can kill a better player more easier with a backstab then with his saber skill. so what is more newbie friendly?

 

hope my english isnt to bad:D

 

What version are you playing? In 1.03, this is so, but not in 1.04....

 

Your english is fine.

[Jedi Maz]

well i think jk2 right now is pretty good to be honest, at first there was a big degree of random sabre movement where it was harder to control, but now they have listend to the real players and the noobies and tried to make a game sort of in the middle, the game still has to be played with a degree of skill as well as it being pretty easy to pick up for new players, same as the guy said with counter strike, im sure a newbie can pick it up quickly but they would have no chance against a vet cs player, where as a newbie in jk2 would be able to pick up the moves quickly, he would have no chance against an experianced dueler, if u manage to get killed by a newbie doing a special move then thats only ur fault for puting ur self in the position to be "special moved" on, i try my best never to do this an thus the noobie doesnt get me

[Deetox187]

I used to feel the same as Dunpeel, i completely hated both patches and felt they ruined the game, even stopped playing for awhile because of it. But i've gotten over that now, with all the great mods being released the game is definetly fun to play again and it will only get better.

[Kurgan]

And enough with the JK2 is dying thing. It's still selling. People are still playing. Obviously it's not the behemoth that Counterstrike is, but get over it.

 

I couldn't agree more. If anybody is unsatisfied with the (read: Saber Dueling Gameplay) Gameplay, try using one of the many mods that people have spent countless hours creating. Or if that's not your bag, make your own. Simple!

 

Or find another game more to your liking and quit whining. ; )

[00M-187]

Stop whining, if you dont like the game play something else. I still love the game and play it every day.

[acdcfanbill]

many people just play the new games that come out anyway. If they want to leave the community theres nothing to stop them. Im sure JK2 will end up like JK did, the same 200 people playing on the Zone everyday

[.:Silver:.]

I welcome a noob filled server because I'm lazy and, well; noobs are just easier to kill.

[zerowingzero]

K, seriously, can we make a sticky with this in it?

 

 

"Raven can only do what the people want, if the people complain about backstabs, it will get changed. There are plenty of mods that are better than the current 1.04, like promod or jedimod, when there are no servers left the game is dead, please stop making these topics"

[Dunpeel]

First of all, veterans would not have been hit with the 1.02 DFA. If ANY you guys are complaining about that move, you guys are the definately noobs and most likely contributed to the nerfing of the game. You can EASILY dodge the 1.02 DFA with side rolls...which i doubt takes much skill unless you guys are handicapped.

 

The nerfing of the forces and various other things were just terrible. And honestly, the damage setting was perfect originally (maybe blue should have been tweaked up slightly) since this is a LIGHT saber not a butter knife.

 

A good game should not require custom mods to fix the problems that the original game had.

 

If you lamers prefer 15 mins to kill a player and constitute that as "fun" and "skilled", i have nothing to say to your noobs.

[ShockV1.89]

Originally posted by Dunpeel

First of all, veterans would not have been hit with the 1.02 DFA. If ANY you guys are complaining about that move, you guys are the definately noobs and most likely contributed to the nerfing of the game. You can EASILY dodge the 1.02 DFA with side rolls...which i doubt takes much skill unless you guys are handicapped.

 

The nerfing of the forces and various other things were just terrible. And honestly, the damage setting was perfect originally (maybe blue should have been tweaked up slightly) since this is a LIGHT saber not a butter knife.

 

A good game should not require custom mods to fix the problems that the original game had.

 

If you lamers prefer 15 mins to kill a player and constitute that as "fun" and "skilled", i have nothing to say to your noobs.

 

Your post really toes the line between a differing opinion and flat out flaming. Be warned, flaming is not appreciated here, and the admins are very active. You're new here, so I'm just letting you know, that sort of thing is not tolerated around here. (not that I have any power over you).

[Elijah]

I hate JO even more every time a patch is released... i havnt played MP for 2 months and the reason is becuse of the 1.04... i liked JO how it was in the Beginning, nows it just keeps changing for the newbies.

 

note: i have NOTHING aginst newbies, but rather then have a game change for you, try changing for the game.

[Mr Tim]

And as everyone who actually has some memory of how it all happened keeps saying: it changed because lots of people from all sides of the JK2 community complained and asked for it to be changed. Newbies don't know enough to petition Raven to change things - they just play and stumble their way through it. It was the 'veteran' community who complained. Well, as much as anyone could be considered a veteran in the, oh - what was it, 1 or 2 months between initial release and the 1.03 patch - hardly enough time to make anyone a 'veteran'.

 

It's still a good game, even if it's not what absolutely everyone wants or likes.

 

Don't have a whine; have a beer and chill out.

[Homosexual Ewok]

Honestly, I think bitter and poor attitudes on the part of some (a lot actually) players is what is driving people away from this game.

 

Hell, the other night I spent almost an hour and a half teaching "newbies" how to Full Force duel. I could have been a prick and "owned" (I hate that term btw) them but what would that have done?

I frustrated someone new into quitting the game?

I make a medium level player give up and go play something else?

 

The reason this community has dropped has a lot to do with the patches, I agree, but to keep it from getting any smaller we need to start acting like a "community" and not a bunch of "Counter-Strike I am 13373R than yOu aR3" type idiots.

 

I hated both patches, they were stupid and the game itself is not as cool as it was, but I still like the game, I like the Star Wars franchise, and I respect the players that I face. So what if they are not as good? As long as we both have fun who cares.

 

 

The game still sells well, so that in turn means a steady stream of new players.

 

But it is up to those already here not to make the new players first experiences so poor that they quit before ever really getting involved in the game.

[Spider AL]

/Me rubs his hands together

 

Well well! Thank goodness more people are starting to say what I've been saying all along: Stop whining about the game, and play it. Or if you don't like it, don't play it, it's up to you.

 

1.04 IMO was a ressurection for the skill-based game which was 1.02. 1.03's many MANY flaws are now gone. I couldn't be happier. And it also appears that more servers are springing up, guns servers, sabres servers, Force servers, NF servers... so the dry period the game went through a fortnight ago was little more than a blip. Hooray for JO, and hooray for 1.04, and frankly, hooray for Raven for having the courage to release 1.04 in the first place.

[Madjai]

they just need to help out the editing community more

we need the ability to edit the SP code and add or alter animations.

[TheWhiteRaider]

Hey no one is forcing you guys to play 1.04 version. I agree that the saber has been nerfed too much, but it still doesn't kill the game. And in a NF sabers only duel it allows you to play longer. Beside I use guns alot in CTF games and use the saber as a defence.

 

And if any of you complain about things being changed in a game I would hate to see if you were in the army. I an just see it now

"*whiny voice*Sadam Husain used a proto type weapon on the army and changed combat. He changed combat too much. He nerfed guns so they look like forks and spoons. I QUIT."

[thehomicidalegg]

"*whiny voice*Sadam Husain used a proto type weapon on the army and changed combat. He changed combat too much. He nerfed guns so they look like forks and spoons. I QUIT."

 

lmao!

 

ph4g! you cant do that, sadam?!?!?! y00 ch34t3r!!! l4m3r!!!

[RamataKahn]

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

 

Not even in the top 10 anymore, so sad. But when can you expect from a game that's butchered every patch. Any time a patch alters gameplay that much you will lose a lot of players.

[Deetox187]

Originally posted by ShockV1.89

 

Your post really toes the line between a differing opinion and flat out flaming. Be warned, flaming is not appreciated here, and the admins are very active. You're new here, so I'm just letting you know, that sort of thing is not tolerated around here. (not that I have any power over you).

 

I'm pretty sure i played against Dunpeel a few times in 1.02, think it was on the Darkside servers. If it was him i'm thinking of he is a damn good player but was very obnoxious just like he is acting here, so this kind of behaviour is probably the norm for him.

[Nobodi Kenobi]

I posted this on the other "Is JKO Dying?" thread and thought I would post it here as it references a lot of what has already been said, and also addresses things that haven't been said as well.

 

In short, the main thing that is "killing" JKO besides Raven's inability to properly finish/tweak the game is...

 

The game has no depth because it is geared toward the same old DM, TDM, Dueling and has a very poor CTF model and that gets awfully boring after about 20 minutes even with the SW characters. Add Raven's continual nerfing of the game which turns it into a one-stance/skill spam game (red stance) and this all adds up to a very boring and shallow experience.

 

And when a game lacks depth and skill it loses players. Period.

 

Even with the addition of Promod and the fifty billion Mods out there (that really don't do anything to create a new game type) it's still the same old DM, Dueling, TDM and badly implemented CTF.

 

What JKO needs in terms of its Mods is its version of Counter-Strike.

 

Not the game itself of course, but a total conversion that deviates from the standard DM, CTF, TDM and Dueling which is primarily what JKO is geared toward... But COULD be doing so much more with the team aspects of the SW considering the characters that inhabit it (Bounty Hunters, Gangsters, Jedis, Sith, Imperials, Trade Federation, etc.).

 

Even though in practice, CS people run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to be Rambo and get the most kills per round, the core concept took the tired old game types of DM and TDM and turned it into something completely different based on the games original engine.

 

That's the kind of Mod JKO is desperately in need of right now.

 

Not the seemingly infinite window dressing Mods that are currently out there (and coming ).

 

There is an upcoming class-based, objective Mod that is in the works. Basically, a JKO Team Fortess Mod.

 

And while it focuses on specific classes with specific abilities, what would be even better is if evolved into a less class based system so that team members could just be autonomous units (Bounty Hunters, Jedi, Sith, etc) and be equally matched if within their class if they wanted -- Kind of like CS -- So that if you are more into the Rambo type of gameplay, but want a more structured and objective based type of game other than CTF that would suit you just fine.

 

I mean, this is just merely a throw-away-suggestion since the Mod isn't even out yet... But it is thinking like this that the JKO Community needs to start thinking about if they want the game to continue to thrive and not just be a game that only a thousand or so people play.

 

I understand the goal is not to top other games in terms of players. That would be silly. But if you have a unique game type (Mod) that springs from an already popular game then chances are more people WILL play it, thus giving the game extended life for veteran players and newbies alike.

 

I agree that Raven needs to HELP the Mod Community more than they have as well. No question.

 

The other factor I wanted to touch on the very thing that Homosexual Ewok brought up and that is the attitudes of the players playing JKO and how the way they treat newbies is often the main thing that drives away potential players who would have normally stayed and become part of the community.

 

A lot of us who play online games are NOT within the target demographic that originally was intended for the game... Even with the SW fanbase being so diverse.

 

Most games are aimed at the 13-25 year old age brackets. That's just fact.

 

But ironically, guess who is mostly playing online games?

 

People like myself who are in their late 20s and older (all the way up to 50s).

 

I'm bringing this up because obviously older players like myself are going to want somethnig different out of the games they play than someone younger than us.

 

Going back to what I said earlier about new game types other than DM, TDM, Dueling and CTF, I know for a fact that as I get older, I do want more team-oriented games and games that require using your wits as well as your weapons. JKO is just a "red-stance" spam fest thanks to Raven and to me, is very boring which is I think why I mainly stopped playing.

 

You can call me a Noob or unskilled lamer all you want, but the stats speak the truth since a lot of players are leaving the game and no new ones arriving (on average).

 

In addition, DM, TDM (guns or sabers or both) is also very boring for someone like me because as you get older you DO lose some of your reflexes -- And more importantly, time to practice your moves as older players are holding full-time jobs, families and other real world, adult responsibilities versus the 13 year old who runs home from school and spends 5 hours a night honing their Blue Lunge attack because they don't have to worry about paying the rent, putting food on the table, etc.

 

I'm not trying to stereotype anyone with these facts. I'm just stating the reality of the world outside online gaming.

 

The other factor about age and people playing the game is that the attitudes of younger players is 9 times out of 10 more geared toward competition and "owing" people to give themselves an ego boost whereas the older crowds are more toward "owing" people... But also RESPECTING them as well and just making sure everyone is having a good time because of their... Maturity.

 

I realize I making broad generalizations and there are of course exceptions to every rule, but I think it is fair to say what I stated above is accurate as it pertains to online gaming in general. At least, it has been my personal experience, anyway.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the younger and immature players (regardless of age) are the ones the new players meet first. The new players then get discouraged or pissed and decide the game isn't worth their time and leave. The sad part about all of this is that they weren't given the chance to even see if JKO is something they would like to be a part of, let alone be good at if given the time to develop their skills.

 

So. There are a lot of things to consider here and I hope everyone takes the time to do so as JKO may not be "dying" in the strictest sense, but somethnig major is going to have to happen for it to be a game of any substance and staying power.

 

It's at a crucial time right now -- whether those of you want to admit it or not -- And it desperately is in need of something if it wants to remain a widely played game.