WIP : Duel of the Fates MP, Version 2

[Eldritch]

Upon closer inspection of the pictures, why does it look like so many textures were thrown out? The brick texture looks like it's used heavily and has much more of a repeating look than the original. One of the nicer things about the original map was the variation of the textures... where has that gone?

[keo718]

BETA Addresses have been sent to all BETA testers, save one. Leslie Judge, I still havent had an email from you - please send soon so I can give you the link!

 

Shadriss, I recieved no e-mail and I am a beta tester.

[inbredyokel]

The brick texturing does look pretty repetitious. The great thing about the first version was that the textures were basically perfect in the hanger. Right now they look kind of washed out and artificial. I'm also sad to see that the perdy reactor beam effects are gone Other than those 2 things, it looks like a huge improvement. Those hanger textures just really detract from the quality though.

[Eldritch]

I don't mind the way the reactor beams look now... I actually prefer them the way you have them. But why'd ya mess with the texturing in the hangar?

[Leslie Judge]

Funny. I sent a letter, and it didn't come back, so I thought you got it. So (not trusting in e-mail) my address is: birolaszlo@hotmail.com

[DarkLord_44]

so we just play by ourselves, no server to go to?

[Shadriss]

OK, I'll start with the reactor beams.

 

They were redesigned from the bottom up. The original design used four concentric cylinders to create that effect. We all know that looking though one layer of glass or a similar clear-type shader can hurt framerate. Imagine that times three. That, I figured, was part of the reason for the low FPS in the reactor to begin with.

 

We tried initially to design a shader and texture set that could create the same effect with only one cylinder, but were unable to. WhiteShdw is great with shaders, but he couldn't come up with one that worked. So, we came up with what we used in the map, which uses two cylinders. We did want to put in the electrtical field effect, but to keep FPS up and reasonable, we had to regretfully cut it. They may not be QUITE as pretty as the original, but they are still pretty accurate, and (on my system at least) that tradeoff gave us about 20-30 FPS. (In the original, my FPS for that room was 20-30. New version is 60-80)

 

Now to the trickier subject - the Hanger textures.

 

The original texture, used by LDJ was, in two words, VERY BRIGHT. Also, that gold/yellow color is actually inaccurate. The color for those bricks is more a orange/brown color. So, we went looking for replacecment textures. We found one in another map, Naboo Hanger. We plugged it in, used it for a while. Then, WhiteShdw and myself decided it still wasn't quite right.

 

Using that texture as a base, , he modified it to more closely match the true color scheme of the brick works. The overall effect is better, in our opinions.

 

Now, as for the complaint of "too repititious". Let's think about this for a moment - can you think of anything that can BE more repititious than a BRICK PATTERN? It's that way by it's very NATURE. Now, granted, the brisk sizes we used for this version are smaller than the version done by LDJ, but, again, we felt it was more accurate and true.

 

Now, for some initial feedback from Beta Testing. Last night, just after I sent out the address, I hooked up with WesKesh and RC_C_Stormie, two of the testers. We did a quick run of about an hour and a half, and we spotted one or two issues. I post them here, so the other testers will see them.

 

1) Small HOM area at the door between the Hanger and the Reactor Foyer. Only visible when the door is open, and you are looking toward the reactor at the doorjamb. I've alrady fixed this error for the final.

 

2) Accidently put in the wrong types of medpacks and shields. Meant to put in instants, and didn't. OOPS! Also fixed.

 

3) Stormie reported not seeing some of the textures on the N-1s. They looked good to me and Wes, so this may be system specific.

 

4) Not really an error as such, but... Note that when you are on the highest platforms in the reactor room, the FPS is still down in the 30-40 range. Not anything we can do about this - the room is just too big. Fortunately, when you're on the main catwalk levels, it's good, sitting at about 60-75 (my system here). Also, we found that if you land on the lowest platform level, it is IMPOSSIBLE to jump up to the next highest level. In effect, you are stuck until you fall off and die. I'll fix this soon.

 

That's all I've heard back so far. More news as I get it.

 

EDIT : Anakin - The textural variation is still there. Every texture that was used in the original was essentially remade and plugged in. In-game, it looks great. If it doesnt look good in the screenshots, I apologize - that's probobly my fault for being a bad photographer.

[t3rr0r]

i've played it and the fps are a nice improvement (for my card). but, is the hanger supposed to be so dimly lit?

[Eldritch]

Don't take this as a personal shot, Shadriss. It's criticism that I think would make the map better. While you are correct in that by their very nature brick textures are repetitive, there's a difference between the texture itself being repetitive, and the use of the texture. What I was commenting on is that the brick texture is used WAY too much from what I can see. If you say LDJs textures were too bright and inaccurate, i'll take your word for it, but it looked pretty good to me before. Due to the use (or overuse) of that brick texture, it's lost that instant recognition that at least I had when I loaded up the original DOTF map.

 

Again, this is just constructive critcism to try and make the map better, not a personal shot at you. I know how you take criticism, so just try to keep that in mind.

[Shadriss]

 

I understood what you meant Anakin. The brick texture was used in the exact same places it was before, with the exception of the outside area, which didn't exist. I'm not angry or even remotely miffed... I just wanted to be sure you understood how this all came around. Me and WhiteShdw will have a good hard look at it and see if we can't alliviate the repitition a little bit... but honestly, we didn't use our texture any more than LDJ did.

 

And no, the hanger will be more brightly lit when we go final. Another thing we're working on.

[Toonces]

I'm not a tester, but I figure I should chime in for a sec. I never thought the brick texture was either too bright, or repeditive in the first version, I thought the lighting was perfect in the whole level actually, it had a great atmosphere.

 

Not a tester, but as an artist I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents

 

edit: If your going for the exact color and lighting as the movie though the texture is the wrong color, more like redish clay

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by Shadriss

 

I understood what you meant Anakin. The brick texture was used in the exact same places it was before, with the exception of the outside area, which didn't exist. I'm not angry or even remotely miffed... I just wanted to be sure you understood how this all came around. Me and WhiteShdw will have a good hard look at it and see if we can't alliviate the repitition a little bit... but honestly, we didn't use our texture any more than LDJ did.

 

And no, the hanger will be more brightly lit when we go final. Another thing we're working on.

 

Was there more contrast between the walls and the base (the part that connects the wall with the floor) texture? Something just seems off... I'll see if I can't put together a side by side thing to try and glue it down - the area directly around the pit also looked a little strange. I'll do the same thing for that too.

 

:EDIT: I did a couple of side by sides... here's the links

http://members.aol.com/firstborn1981/comparison1.jpg

http://members.aol.com/firstborn1981/comparison2.jpg

http://members.aol.com/firstborn1981/comparison3.jpg

[Wes Marrakesh]

Alright. Here's from my testing...

 

A) AMD Athalon 1.33Ghz, 64mb GeForce 4 Ti 4200, 512mb Ram, 1600x1200 desktop resolution.

B)

 

[EDIT]I was only doing them in the readme format [/EDIT]

*Hangar looking outside* I didn't get them, I thin 30-40 FPS.

*Reactor looking to ff corridor* 20-30 FPS.

*Reactor side catwalk looking to far wall* 14-22 FPS.

*Force Field (ff) corridor looking to pit* 20-27 FPS.

*Pit room to back wall* 50-65 FPS.

C) None. Those glow shaders worked for me.

D) Fix that area outside (you should know what I mean). Slow down the fence doors. Add bowcaster and Tenloss. Add the right kind of shield. Add some medpacks. Some thermals too

 

Great map! I loved testing it.

[Toonces]

Thanks for the shots Anakin_S, I must say that I'm very impressed with what you guys did with the forcefield room, the textures are Gorgeous

 

The new beams look really nice too. The color on the brick texture looks good, I'd suggest lightening the texture a bit, the redish clay looks good, it just seems a little too dark. It could also be the lighting, it seems very dark in the hangar, without playing it of course I might be way off

 

Looking good

[Shadriss]

Hey wes, thanks for giving us those FPS figures - too bad you didn't say what each set was for. You're the first to post those, so you may wanna clarify that.

 

Had a discussion with Whiteshdw and LDJ a little while ago concerning that brick texture. We've decided, for the time being anyway, to leave it in place and see if you think it's any better when we've fully lit the Hanger.

 

To this point, the Pit Room has already been rebuilt and re-textured with new ones, courtesy of Whiteshdw. I've seen a few screenies, and it looks to be even further improvement of that area. Hopefully, ,it'll fix a few of those "oddities" that Anakin couldn't quite put his finger on.

 

Wes, we're fixing the outside.

 

I do have to apologize to everyone - I kinda rushed this BETA release. With everyone keeping tabs on it, I think I kinda got rushed and put out the test before it was TRULLY ready for it. However, since it's been done, we'll go with it. Just keep in mind that most of the lighting is NOT in placee yet, and we still intend to tweak a few areas.

 

The final version may be slightly delayed from what I had hoped. Whiteshdw, ,whom I have come to rely on heavilly for assistancec, also has another prject (not mapping, and it pays him, therefore, more important!) that's coming to a head, and he's supposed to be done by roughly the end of next week. He'll still be working, as will I, when free time permits.

 

Keep the comments and criticism coming guys. Despite how I sometimes sound about it, I *DO* want it. This map will NOT be released until it is as perfect as Whiteshdw, LDJ, and Myself can make it.

[DarkLord_44]

These are my findings so far with my system.

1012ghz Intel p3, Win 98, 256 ram, 1024 by 768 screen size, Geforce 4 Mx 440, Asus Motherboard

 

For the next section I will give both the FPS for the map Shadriss made and then from the orginal Dotf.

 

Location Shadriss Original

Hanger (from back looking toward cliff) 32 to 33 27

The Reactor Room (main catwalk to ff room) 46 to 47 40s

Reactor Room (Right catwalk toward far wall) 36 to 37 27

Forcefield Corridor(reactor side looking to pit) 38 to 39 25

Pit Room (forcefiled corridor to back wall) low 70s high 70s

Better fps overall, the net gain in total fps is 27 +- 5

 

Bugs:

-When on top of naboo fighter(one on top racket near outside) on the left side of the hanger, you can see into the reactor room when crouching or roll or using jet pack ( may just be a regular game glitch)

 

-music doesn't load

 

-In hallway to the reactor could see into black space when using jet pack ( unable to duplicate)

 

-Force field kills if person is standing and happens to get caught(maybe should shutdown if possible)

 

-When above fog in the tiptop of reactor room, can see into and through the tubes so lots of black space is showing.

*some maybe just regular map problems that can't be fix because I am not a mapper

 

Suggestions

 

-The wall in the hanger that is textured with those doors shouldn't have trip mines in front of them so they look like the doors DO work and with them in front you know they don't

 

-In the pit room change sides or they are not just slanted add Real texture like this (see first) or something that isn' this (see second)

\ \

| \

\ \

 

-if possible look into changing the textures under and on the sides of the walkways in the reactor room(doesn't look metalish sorta like plastic)

 

-There is a change is texture above the hanger entrance way in the reactor room(want to know if that is on purpose because it doesn't look right)

 

-Pipe and pillar between the 2 doors in the reactor room textures in the hanger look like they need to be redone because they look sorta Blaa.

 

-The control panel in the reactor room should have a more interesting assortment of textures not like the other textures from the level on the control panel.

 

-Entrance to the hanger{when standing right outside the force field room (if wanted)} could be changed to look more like the 1st dolf.(like the yellow brick not the blue stuff)

 

-Add crates and fuel pump to the hanger room to give more realism

[keo718]

Question, how do I display the FPS?

 

edit: This is great work by the way. One thing I did notice however is looking up at the reactor beams, there seems to be some texture splitting near the top of all of them. Otherwise the scale is excellent. I do think the pit is a bit TOO shallow. I liked being able to escape it in the first version. I noticed you left out the door way(in the reactor room) which is some levels underneath the main catwalk doorway. Even If it doesn't open, having that there would be nice, as I recall seeing it in the movie(could be wrong though). You are already aware of the lighting in the hanger, but I do agree that the contrast that the lighting brought to the environment in the original is better. It makes for much sharper textures in which the variation is more noticable. The brick work in the hanger as of now is too reddish. Excellent work though. I will play more and ost more feedback. But its kind of hard to gauge FPS without bot support.

 

edit: Also, I'm not sure if its just my system but the Naboo fighters are all gray in texture.

[WhiteShdw]

To display FPS type cg_drawFPS 1 in the console.

 

And here's some screenshots of the updated pitroom. Normally i'll wait for Shadriss to make screenshots, but i was kinda happy with the results, so here you go:

 

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

 

I'm currently updating the forcefield corridor to match the pitroom, so it's not completely finished in those shots.

[Livingdeadjedi]

Hey darklord_44 one thing the entrance from the core to the hanger is spot on, i supplied Shadriss with this pic =]]

http://www.alderaanonline.com/gallery/gallery.cgi?func=show&file=200746&Category=100005&Page=15

[keo718]

WhiteShdw, that new pitroom is looking real good. Do you guys still plan on doing the version for higher end machines?

[WhiteShdw]

We're still planning that. Only we've hit a bit of a problem area with the pitroom. It's not drawing the mirror properly. So i'm gonna have to figure that one out first.

[Leslie Judge]

OK, start with some screenies

 

http://www.geocities.com/birolaszlo/shot0025.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/birolaszlo/shot0026.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/birolaszlo/shot0027.jpg

(You have to copy and paste because of geocities...)

 

About the Naboo fighters. They are grey to me too. But, I looked in the n1.shader file and the models/map_objects/ships/tinfx2c.jpg is not in the pk3. Do we need it? Can it be THE problem?

 

Oh, I think the plants outside the hanger are a bit too green.

 

The new pit room looks great. And I couldn't find the problem with the pit which was very similar to what can be seen on shot0027 with the beams.

 

Comp. specs:

Celeron II (Tualatin) 1200 MHz

512 MB RAM

ASUS V7100 Pro GeForce2 MX-400 32MB

I run the game at 800x600.

 

Framerates:

The Hanger (From the back, looking toward the cliff area) 34

The Reactor Room (Main Catwalk, looking toward Forcefield Corridor) 49

The Reactor Room (From the far right or left catwalk, looking at the FAR wall) 40

The Forcefield Corridor (From the Reactor side, looking toward the Pit Room) 40

The Pit Room (From Forcefield Corridor, looking at back wall) 83

[Eldritch]

Aside from the crits made by everyone, I think the stage looks great. I will reserve judgement on the reddish bricks until the hangar is fully lit, but they still look a little too red.

 

The hangar looks empty without the Lady Luck... I seem to remember a Queen's ship model over on jedioutcastmaps.com - as that was in the movie, perhaps you could consider adding it where the Lady Luck was? I know the ship wasn't there during the DoTF scene in Episode I, but it was there earlier in the movie.

 

Just a suggestion.

[t3rr0r]

the shields in the corridor are a little too fast, methinks... even with force speed i can't seem to make it from one end to the other. maybe increase the time between each opening and closing just a tad, and to compensate increase the length of time the shields are closed for... i'll post my specs at a later time.

[Shadriss]

Odd you should mention the Queen's Ship, ,Anakin. I looked at it early on in the map. Just isn't to scale with the rest of the map, unfortunatly.

 

On the forcefields. I've gotten the comment about speed from several sources, so it will be slowed down somewhat. RIght now, the timing is as follows\ :

 

Time Open : 6 secs.

Time Closed : 12 secs.

Time between doors : .1 sec

 

They will be changed to :

 

Time Open : 8 secs

Time Closed : 16 secs

Time between doors : .25 Secs.

 

It is intentional that you get killed if the doors close on you - I call it doing the 5 Terrawatt Shuffle. If Maul, Obi, ,or QUi-gon had been caught (right....) they would have been fried. So, too, shall you.

 

On brick color : We're getting a lot of conflicting information on just what coloration those bricks should have. In screenshots and in the bokk, sit's more yellowish. In the movies, it's a darker brown/red/orange. We're trying to come up with something that is agreeable to all, but it's a tricky proposition. But, as always, we're working on it!

 

On the reactor beams : I think they ARE one piece. Those lines are being drawn where the fog intersects the glass. I'll check to make sure...