C'jais Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Kururin Darwinism is crap Of course it is. I'm sitting here reading biology, and it strikes me - do you know that your entire belief in God is caused by nerve cells, and their success in drugging your brain? Mandalorian, tell me why evolution shouldn't be taught in schools, please. Evolution (or whatever you want to call it) does happen. I refer to the countless of posts on bacteria and countless experiements with animals so small you could watch the evolution unfold right before your eyes during their short generations. Ok, so now that we know evolution happens, tell me why darwinism is crap and why you think the human race has always existed as it is with no change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Darwinism IS crap!! You darwinist's are full of ****. Let me tell you this...why do you believe in that crap? By doing so, you are just simply believing what other HUMANS have created as a belief. It's a blind path to follow. At least God has proven himself through miracles that have been recorded as a part of history. Check your history books...you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Yoda85 Darwinism IS crap!! You darwinist's are full of ****. Let me tell you this...why do you believe in that crap? By doing so, you are just simply believing what other HUMANS have created as a belief. It's a blind path to follow. At least God has proven himself through miracles that have been recorded as a part of history. Check your history books...you will see. By history books..do you mean your Bible? Please give us some proof and the names of the books. (You cant really convert other people to your religion by flaming thier belief...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 i'm not trying to convert. You want the name and editions? Fine. I'll give you my current history book. Its made by Boyers called "The American Nation" Copyright 1998. By the way, the Bible is a history book. So double check your info before criticizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Yoda85 i'm not trying to convert. You want the name and editions? Fine. I'll give you my current history book. Its made by Boyers called "The American Nation" Copyright 1998. By the way, the Bible is a history book. So double check your info before criticizing. The bible,frankly, is as much BS as Evolution. Miracles are merely coincidences... Also, why does god let good honest people suffer Cancer and other horrible deseases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by NeoDios And I'm with the theory that evolution is God's way of creating us. Very juicy. If God created us, he knows the human race is going to die eventually, leaving us with the question of why he did it in the first place. Why isn't God appliable to animals too, then, since humans are nothing more than animals as well. Just as humans nowadays compare the early monkey-humans to animals - so too will the human race in 10.000 years compare us to animals. Maybe God's intention is to create one, final super race that can truly understand God's infinity, but then it raises a whole new ethical question of whether it's morally justifiable that we, humans, are just used as a tool to spawn a new level of evolution. Just like the one celled organisms giving way to the multi celled ones (eukaryote). If you reply with a resounding "no" - that none can use our race as a way to furthering a goal, leaving it used and useless when we're done with - then I can warmly suggest making an end of mankind right here and now If you truly think that we, right now, are at the peak of evolution, that we are now created in "God's own image" - then I truly do not understand your immoral way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Just cuz God is good does not mean that he has to do what we want him to do. Its like saying: "Why does the President allow murder?" God gave humans the free will to do what they wish but that they would have to know the consequences and rewards of their actions. "The last shall come first and the first shall come last" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Yoda85 Just cuz God is good does not mean that he has to do what we want him to do. Its like saying: "Why does the President allow murder?" God gave humans the free will to do what they wish but that they would have to know the consequences and rewards of their actions. "The last shall come first and the first shall come last" Yeah! Humans have free will of getting cancer or not! It's in their genes, they were born to die. P.S. God in the bible is supposed to be all-powerful. If he is so perfect and he could create us, then why cant he stop something so petty as murder(which causes innocent lives to be lost)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Yoda85 Darwinism IS crap!! You darwinist's are full of ****. Let me tell you this...why do you believe in that crap? By doing so, you are just simply believing what other HUMANS have created as a belief. It's a blind path to follow. At least God has proven himself through miracles that have been recorded as a part of history. Check your history books...you will see. Evolution isn't a belief, nor a religion of any sort. We do not need belief when we're dealing with theories and calculations. A "religion" has to do with a God of some sort - science has none. The bible is a history book yes, but it so biased it's practically worthless - Could Jesus walk on water? Did moses split the red sea? EDIT - DarthYoda, please adress my points and posts - and do so without resorting to name calling please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 In regards to heaven and hell, you should know that your brain starts to decompose when you die - which means there'll be no way you could register that you were now in heaven or hell, nor any way you affect that environment or receive pain or pleasure from it. Or, maybe atoms and cells don't even exist eh? And who is to judge what is right and wrong - the persons who wrote the bible? Do you put your faith into evolution and science to trust that there even lived some people 200 years ago? Maybe the world is a hoax, and the world was created 150 years ago with God as it's creator? BTW, another strong point for evolution: When people breed, the offspring recieves some of the traits of the parents - try for yourself, compare people to their parents and siblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 as for god im thinkin this. i dont think there is 1. its a thought some1 came up with a long time ago and in a weird way, ppl start believin in it. mostly when ppl r in trouble they start believin in somethin (like god) so thats maybe it all started. and i lay evrything beside u like cell and atoms u lay science beside u. and u think science almost can explain evrything. im a great believer in science so it rules out god for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOL User Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Wow! Metaphysics! Um-? Whats the point of this thread? Someone elighten me so I don't have to read it from page one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kururin Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I know i didnt evolve from a stupid monkey and wheres the proof a stupid monkey skull cant change my mind about God creating everthing and what does nerve cells have to do with this? BTW was your school having Debate on this cause mine did tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 "Behold now behemoth, which I made with you; he eats grass like an ox." Job 40:15 That one of the parts where the bible talks about dinosaurs. There are more. The math figuers are the chances(from Gregory Parker) out of a big soup to get the favorable reations and the chances that a living cell that comes out of it knows how to survive without being taught what to do, the body funtions know how to keep the cell alive, and know how to reproduce all at once. And how do you explain the sudden change to the earth to allow it to to support life just at the right time. There is such a thing a evolution, but it is mirco not macro. So far there have only been changes with breed. Sure we have different types of dogs, but are they not still dogs? And why isn't there missing links alive today? If they don't stop evolving why aren't there some that are mid-way through today? And how does time go forward if we did not have somewhere to start? Oh and C-14 dateing could only be accurate up to 33,000 year acording to someone who posted a while back. That is assumeing that the bone has been untouched by some forces. And we do not have something that every side can agree is a million years old. Evolution isn't a belief, nor a religion of any sort. We do not need belief when we're dealing with theories and calculations. You come closer than you think. You try telling us how we got here, how the world was made, and your view that their is no god. I think that is a belief is it not? Humans have free will of getting cancer or not! In most cases they do. Cancer is for the most part gained from the type of life style a person leads(Smokeing, takeing bad care of themselves, ect.) For the most part they don't get it for stupid reason. Besides that is not what he was talking about. tell me why evolution shouldn't be taught in schools It is not that it shouldn't not, but you do not teach the debate. BTW, another strong point for evolution: When people breed, the offspring recieves some of the traits of the parents - try for yourself, compare people to their parents and siblings. And does that make a new super-human? I think they are still human are they not? Whats the point of this thread? To debate. I explained the beginning of life You showed me how it could of happened not that it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Kururin I know i didnt evolve from a stupid monkey and wheres the proof a stupid monkey skull cant change my mind about God creating everthing . Yes,you couldnt have evolved from a monkey, since a monkey would be smarter than you considering that statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider In most cases they do. Cancer is for the most part gained from the type of life style a person leads(Smokeing, takeing bad care of themselves, ect.) For the most part they don't get it for stupid reason. Besides that is not what he was talking about. So? I still want to know why God lets innocent children get cancer even though they didnt do anything wrong? They didnt smoke, they didnt do drugs, they didnt do any bad, yet they still get a very painful desease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisces Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Original sin. Everyone's born with it. According to creation, we could've had paradise, but humans ruined it for themselves. The way things are in the world now, that doesn't surprise me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by NeoDios Original sin. Everyone's born with it. According to creation, we could've had paradise, but humans ruined it for themselves. The way things are in the world now, that doesn't surprise me at all. Not true. All the humans did was simply inherit the sins of the father, which is very un-moral and un-fair so god proboly wouldnt do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisces Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrion Not true. All the humans did was simply inherit the sins of the father, which is very un-moral and un-fair so god proboly wouldnt do that. No. It's Original Sin. Everyone has it. I don't know why, they just do. But everyone gets absolved of it when/if they get baptized. That's just my religion. Hey, I myself am a little copnfused on the part why children suffer. A large portion of the time people brign it on themselves and their children. The other times, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOL User Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider The math figuers are the chances(from Gregory Parker) out of a big soup to get the favorable reations and the chances that a living cell that comes out of it knows how to survive without being taught what to do, the body funtions know how to keep the cell alive, and know how to reproduce all at once. And how do you explain the sudden change to the earth to allow it to to support life just at the right time. More info please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestg Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 1. if there is a god, he is omnipotent, omniscient, and all good. 2. an omnipotent and omniscient god can do anything logically possible 3. it is logically possible for an omnipotent and omniscient being to rid the world of all evil 4. an all good being does everything logically possible to prevent evil that does not bring about some greater good 5. there exists in the world instances of unnecessary suffering and evil. so 6. there is no omnipotent, omniscient, all good god there is an argument against the existence of god. it commits no fallicies and is valid. stick to sabers little eve, your out of your league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 With out suffering there would be no compassion. God loves us so much he gives us a choice. Bad things have happened in my life and it only brings me to realize how much I really need God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider The DNA code is complex and if you took all the software ever made and put them together the DNA code would still be about 9 times bigger. So why weren't video games made in that soup? The human brain is the most complex computer ever known and yet it is the lightest computer ever made. And also here is something. 93% of all mutation cause the new born to be steral. And Why aren't things still changeing today? If you say it takes billions of years... well I think a billion years has past as you guys say. And here is something do you guys think that JK2 came about by chance? I bet not. And also Evolution is not science. You need to tell the rest of the world what DNA you are talking about. I'm not an expert in these fields, by no means, but I do know that certain bacteria have amacingly simple DNA strings (plasmides). Video games weren't made because video games can't reproduce. As for your 7% chance of a survivable mutation: It is probably lower than that, but if you factor in 4 billion years and a generation time of one day (which is a long generation time for bacteria), you see why evolution is consistent. And evolution IS science. Two of the important criteria for when a theory is science are: It must be founded on observation or been able to predict observations, and it must be, theoretically, disprovable (and not yet disproved). The theory of evolution fullfill BOTH above criteria. Thus it is science. Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider And you guys might have a better case if I see a amemba come from a bunch of acids and goo. See above comment on probability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonkH8er Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 This thread has sunk down to mindless science-bashing on behalf of some individuals who continue to make up information, and present no other reasons against evolution other than "The bible says so". None of the supposed disproven scientific facts have been referenced or linked. Honestly people, this is why I'd be a lot happier if there was NO religion in the world. Religion is one of, if not THE most prolific cause of wars and terrorist attacks throughout history. Either present some arguments that arent based on mindless slander and blind faith, or prepare to have the whole thread closed, which is what I'm leaning to. I've tried presenting theories, information and scientific facts on these theories, links to sites, but some people insist on calling me an idiot for thinking differently to themselves, due to their blind faith in their god and their intensly closed mind. I believe that there is no god, but I'm open to other opinions. I dont shoot down every thing that religious people post. I'm open minded. I love to see why other people choose to believe in what they do. What I dont like to see is mindless bashing of other peoples beliefs, such as "DARWINISM IS A LOAD OF CRAP AND HE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN BORN" or "ALL YOU ATHIESTS WILL BURN IN HELL. YOU'RE ALL STUPID IDIOTS". Honestly, grow up. You guys are mature enough to uphold a sensible conversation and acknowledge that we're presenting reasonable facts, arent you? I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pnut_Man Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I'm not really sure what we're trying to prove here anymore but I guess ill just state some facts Like I said before: The Bible is not to be taken word for word. The Genesis for example contains alot of symbolism, lots of representation. If something is not in the Bible that does not mean that it never existed. When god first spoke with the people his intention was not to make a book of history. He wished to create a book to pass on the Tradition of Christainity/Jeudism. Remember, this book was written 2000 years ago. The people had no idea things called "Dinosaurs" even existed. Just get my point; if something isn't in the bible then that doesn't mean Religion thinks it's fake/never existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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