DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Well, with the new LOTR movies, George Lucas is going to have to really go all out with Episode III. Even though his movie is coming out 2005 and the LOTR series will be done next year, do you think he can compete with the LOTR movies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 No, and he never could. He's incurred some kind of brain damage since the original trilogy from what I can tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Lucas shouldnt have directed the movies in the first place, he should just have helped with character creatoin and things like that. I mean he didnt direct Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and they were GREAT movies. I sort of feel bad saying this but the new movies just arent capturing my imagination and living up to their predecessors(sp?) The new movies just dont seem believable. Lord of the Rings looks real and for some reason i find it easier to get immersed in them as opposed to the new star wars movies. To be honest the new star wars movies just seem...well...dinky. i HOPE that "Salvation" is not the name of the 3rd movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaber-<ZeN> Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I find thrill in the new star wars movies..well, not like I did in Return of the Jedi or either of the lotr vids. Epi2 that is. I liked Epi1, for some odd kinky reason, it caught me. I love it. But Epi2 wasnt as exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I can't imagine why anyone would think Lucas shouldn't have directed these last two movies. Sure, he was a little rusty when he directed The Phantom Menace, but that was coming back from a hiatus of ten years. Attack of the Clones, I think, is one of the most well-directed movies I've ever seen. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, you could take any stillframe from that movie and hang it in a museum of art. Star Wars is a visual and melodic movie; the dialogue is secondary. Lucas is doing something that the Renaissance artists did: telling stories with images. Lucas captured the intimacy and tragidy of Shmi's passing with a reverse peita. He captured Anakin's emotional turmoil with his desperate hunt across the Dune Sea. And Lucas captured the descent of the galaxy by imitating the grandeure of the Nuremberg Rally with the future Imperial Dictator overseeing his armies deploying. Lucas is an artistic genius. I have an open mind, and I trust Lucas, and I believe he'll give us something like we've never seen before in Episode III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi_Monk I can't imagine why anyone would think Lucas shouldn't have directed these last two movies. Sure, he was a little rusty when he directed The Phantom Menace, but that was coming back from a hiatus of ten years. Attack of the Clones, I think, is one of the most well-directed movies I've ever seen. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, you could take any stillframe from that movie and hang it in a museum of art. Star Wars is a visual and melodic movie; the dialogue is secondary. Lucas is doing something that the Renaissance artists did: telling stories with images. Lucas captured the intimacy and tragidy of Shmi's passing with a reverse peita. He captured Anakin's emotional turmoil with his desperate hunt across the Dune Sea. And Lucas captured the descent of the galaxy by imitating the grandeure of the Nuremberg Rally with the future Imperial Dictator overseeing his armies deploying. Lucas is an artistic genius. I have an open mind, and I trust Lucas, and I believe he'll give us something like we've never seen before in Episode III. I agree with you on the scene with anakin looking for his mother. That montage was incredable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I dont go in to movies for mostly the images... I go in to watch the actual storyline... Now the images helped it..but the poor acting sunk it way down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi_Monk I can't imagine why anyone would think Lucas shouldn't have directed these last two movies. Sure, he was a little rusty when he directed The Phantom Menace, but that was coming back from a hiatus of ten years. Attack of the Clones, I think, is one of the most well-directed movies I've ever seen. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, you could take any stillframe from that movie and hang it in a museum of art. Star Wars is a visual and melodic movie; the dialogue is secondary. Lucas is doing something that the Renaissance artists did: telling stories with images. Lucas captured the intimacy and tragidy of Shmi's passing with a reverse peita. He captured Anakin's emotional turmoil with his desperate hunt across the Dune Sea. And Lucas captured the descent of the galaxy by imitating the grandeure of the Nuremberg Rally with the future Imperial Dictator overseeing his armies deploying. Lucas is an artistic genius. I have an open mind, and I trust Lucas, and I believe he'll give us something like we've never seen before in Episode III. Once again Im with you. You hit the nail right on the head I think, so to speak. Monk can articulate and convey things very well. Puts out the thoughts and feelings that people like me could never express well. Thx again Monk. More importantly listen to GL. He knows all. You cant logically argue his art as poor at all. Nothing anyone says or thinks stands up to what is said above. Bad directing? Bad story? Bad acting? Bad ideas? Only in the pigs eye of Pop. Its art. He tells stories with pictures not dialogue. Thats fine. Sure its not dramatic Oscar winning acting. Its not supposed to be. Its GL style. A modern Michelangelo he is. And btw some of the best quotes of all time are from SW anyway. From ALL the movies mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova_wolf Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 WARNING - TTT SPOILERS BEYOND - WARNING So far, both Lord of the Rings films have had me perched on the edge of my seat, all control over my breathing lost, tears in my eyes, chest tight, eyes wide, palms sweating. No, this is not the list of symptoms for a heart atack, but the result of the greatest films I have ever been honoured to watch. The sequence in Balen's Tomb in Moria got this emotional cascade going, the action not bloody, but stillraw - believable. your there with them - especially when Froddo is hurt. I had forgotten the mythril, so was nearly in tears, as the scene went quiet, all the defenders unleashing rage they thought best kept for another time. Fighting to their loss, and for their guilt, allthinking they could have saved him. The fall of Boromir - the same dulled msuic and background sound, the action again is not bloody, but it is elemental. REAL! You feel for him, especially when Mery and Pippen luach themselves futely at the Oruc Hi (sp?). When Aragon leaps in front of Lurtz, and the duel ensues - it had more emotion, action and pulled you in more than EpIs duel. Why - the settings weren't so clean,. the action was raw, not ballet coreographed. The people were easier to BE THERE with. The defense of Helm's Deep - I stopped breathing when the Oruc Hi sprinted for the bombs, aragon calling to Legolas 'Shoot Him!', Legolas suddenyly with the fate of Rohan in his hands, and shot after shot, the Oruc keeps running, Aragon again caling 'Shoot Him!' Aragon and Gimli on the bridge - the comradry and comic moment before the battle. The lighthearted kill count between Gimli and Legolas The potenitally final charge of the King of Rohan, with Aragon and the last defenders through the enemy ranks that now held the keeps... And when Gandelf upon ShadowFax lead the 200- strong Riders of Rohan regiment over and down that SHEER slope, the light aura before them... This sort of action and character development we get in the EU books (NJO series in particular), but in the prequel films, we get Geonosis. It was good - but was still too clean. Had no link to the characters really. It was good, but nothing in comparisson. I prefer the Batle of Endor (Space Battle more than Ground Battle, but thats because I love starfighters, not through a dislike of ewoks.) By ROTJ, we had Han rescued from Carbonite, Leia's home destroyed, Luke's parents dead and this history and future inquestion. They were characters that we had been through hell with, and would gladly go again. These events have changed the characters in ways we have seen - we know whats happened, we know why, we see the result. Han giving his most prized posession to Lando for the Death Star II Assault Run is a big instance of this. His selfishness is all but extinguished - he now realises you fight together, or fall. Same with LOTR. From Moria, the death of Boromir, Wargs, loves lost, honourable allies dead, Helms Deep, wathcing youths and infirms sent to active service and sure fire death. Again - these events have changed the characters in ways we have seen - we know whats happened, we know why, we see the result. Despite all that has befallen them, the three stick together, carrying with them the last alliance of Men, Elves and Dwarves in every action. By EpI, we have a moody teenager who kiled a tribe of nomads after his mother died. Padme nearly lost her home planet, but only to occupation. Nothing was really made of that. Qui Gonn is dead, but again, nothing is made of that. Obi Wan seems to have forgotten entirely about it. Stuff just happens. It was nice, but it doesn't add much to the characters except for the mother thing with Anakin. Maybe doing the at ALL was a bad idea... Perhaps it shiuld have been given to th awesome portfolio of EU writers we have to do it all in prose... THEN seen about doing the movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Nova, I agree with everything you said except for a few things. EP2 had great visual graphics but with better acting... the movie would hve been a lot better. And if Lucas calls Ep3 "Salvation"... It would ruin the Star Wars series forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 I think that George Lucas lost his "touch" altogether. I was not t all impressed with Episode I because all it did was focus on Anakin and Padme. First, Padme is the center of attention throughout the whole movie because her planet is having conflict with the Trade Federation. It seems that we never stop hearing about her through them whole movie. Then when Anakin is found on Tattoine, its all about how he should train to be a Jedi. Then, in Episode II, it's all about Anakin and Padme once again. To much love I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I thought AotC was done very well, especially the battle scenes and such. Sure the acting was poor but that didn't really depend on the director, but moreover on the cast selector. Anyway, IMO, Star Wars already pwns LOTR sideways and all other directions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 I have always thought SW could never be surpassed but I'm starting to see that its not true. LoTR is way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Not by a long shot.....couple of orcs and small-sized world don't replace a galaxy...thats just the surface...all the other stories that run through star wars are a) many more in numbers than lotr has and b) imo way better, 2 good action cgi scenes don't make up for much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Simpson Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Attack of the Clones, I think, is one of the most well-directed movies I've ever seen. Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh a little at that comment. In my opinion, when it comes to directing, AOTC ranks pretty low. A director is supposed to help the actors make their characters come alive, which Lucas apparently isn't very good at. Just look at the stiff delivery of the lines between Anakin and Padme. A better director would actually direct them, trying to improve their performance, instead of just yelling 'Action' and 'Cut'. I don't really know how Lucas directs of course, but when you compare the movies he has and hasn't directed, the ones where he stood on the sideline clearly stand out as better movies. But I guess you can blaim most of the problems with acting on the writing / script. I think dialogue is more important than you realize. You could have the most beatuiful scene ever created for your characters to act in, but when they open their mouth and the equivalent of 'OMGHI2U' comes out, it really detracts from the experience. The dialogue is supposed to evoke emotional response from you, the viewer, something which the new triology has totally failed to do. In my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Yes just because it s agood scene... if the actors are screaming things like "j00 n0ob. 1 l337" makes it hard to really appreciate it. I thought that the person who played Anakin in AoTC STUNK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glorfindel Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I think AOTC could have been better but it was still better then TPM. And about the entire thing of not let GL direct the new SW is just a fans hope to get a better movie out of SW movies, no offense. I will be extremely surprised if GL does not direct the last (maybe) movie. SW is his creation and he deserves to wrap up the SW movies. In my own opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Yes GL will finish off his creation... it is only fair to him but if he screws it up... grrr i'm going to be very mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace_sundancer Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 personally i think far too many people are taking movies these days far too seriously and expecting far too much from them and are angered when these films pander to the lowest common denominator and then make a ****-load of money. but that is hollywood's strategy, aim low and profit high. i just wanna fork over my five quid and have 2 hours or so of escapist fun and i get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pnut_Man Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES Lucas shouldnt have directed the movies in the first place, he should just have helped with character creatoin and things like that. I mean he didnt direct Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and they were GREAT movies. I sort of feel bad saying this but the new movies just arent capturing my imagination and living up to their predecessors(sp?) The new movies just dont seem believable. Lord of the Rings looks real and for some reason i find it easier to get immersed in them as opposed to the new star wars movies. To be honest the new star wars movies just seem...well...dinky. i HOPE that "Salvation" is not the name of the 3rd movie. I could not have said it better myself. Lucas cannot direct...*sigh* Though ep2 was half as good as it should have been, I still found many scenes well shot and filmed. In particular, the tatoonie part of Episode 2 was very well done. As i watch the coruscant scenes i find that anakin's role is accurately played. Seeing him grinning after padme's "it makes me feel uncomfortable", that grin brought me the image of Pre-Darth Vader. Originally posted by nova_wolf ...This sort of action and character development we get in the EU books (NJO series in particular) ... That's one of the only things that's kept me into Star Wars. The action, drama and story of the New Jedi Order. True Sci-fi Fantasy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by mace_sundancer personally i think far too many people are taking movies these days far too seriously and expecting far too much from them and are angered when these films pander to the lowest common denominator and then make a ****-load of money. but that is hollywood's strategy, aim low and profit high. i just wanna fork over my five quid and have 2 hours or so of escapist fun and i get it. I'm well aware of Hollywood's strategy for, well, the majority of movies. But the thing about starwars was that when it first came out, it didnt cater to the lowest common denominator. It wasnt a kid movie. It broke the mold, it wasnt so oozily cheezy and fakish (EII love scenes!?!?). You believe the galaxy was in great peril, that only a small band of rag-tag rebels you werent even sure could do any better at governing could save the day. You believed that a broken family was being reunited and strengethend under the pressure of peril. The new movies, though grander, and not so grand. They have breathtaking effects (effects I now must admit are darfed by LoTR [pun intended]), but a weak story. Even if the plot surrounds a huge change in the universe (the dark side, palpatine slowly gianing power), no cues are given as why that really matters. Poeple arent really affected by it (Padme is EXACTLY the same!) The actors are monotone and just plain lame. Things happen, but with little cause and affect, and the characters only react to what is happening right now, not on the grander scale. I have a longer attention span than 3 minutes, the poeple who are supposed to be living it should to. Maybe its because you already know that outcome by episode 3, but I dont think so. I can go watch the OT and be interested in it, even if I can cite every line. The prequals are predictable flashy fodder. I honestly dont know what the OT has the prequals dont, but I know Lucas doesnt know either. He's relying on subtle things he did in the OT (hiring obscure actors, with execption of samuel l Jackson, but hes no jedi, friction between lovers, ect.) in a desperate hope he wont alienate the hardore fans while making still making them appealing to the masses. I say **** that idea and just make a good goddamn movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedragon Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 no one can compete with J.R.R. Tolkien. LOTR is the second most read book next to the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I thought Hayden Christinsen did an excellent job as Anakin. Anakin was a very shallow character before his character was molded my strife. During the two central scenes, I couldn't imagine anyone doing any better: when Anakin sees his mother die, and when Anakin describes what he'd done to the Tuskens. Look into his eyes as he tells Padme that he'd killed them all--they're blank, they're void. You are looking at Vader's eyes, the eyes of a mask. And when his mother is dying, when he's trying to reassure her, but stops to listen to every word she has to say, while knowing that he's losing her and can do nothing. These moments couldn't be better. Christinsen plays Anakin perfectly. And I seriously can't think that the acting in the Prequels has been any worse than the acting in the Original Trilogy. Nothing in the Prequels equals the sheer terror of Luke telling Leia that he's her brother. I cannot help but flinch at that scene. You cannot take the Prequels alone, either... you can't just take Anakin in the Prequels and say, oh, he's a lame underdeveloped character--BECAUSE HE IS DARTH VADER! Everything Anakin is is leading into Vader, and Vader, everything Vader does, is a continuation of Anakin's character development. Most of us have grown up with the Original Trilogy. We've lived all of our lives with Luke, Leia and Han. Of course we're going to care for them! And the next generation, the generation that grew up with the Prequels, will care for all of the characters. And better yet, they'll see how Anakin and Obi-Wan, in particular, grow into what they are in the Original Trilogy, and there will be no gap with them. Anakin will be Vader. And that is as it should be. And nova_wolf, those two scenes you mentioned in Fellowship--those're the two that I cannot stand. Watching them is like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard to me. They're emotional for emotion's sake. We all know Frodo couldn't have died, and his "death scene" just comes off as him being a wimp. And Boromir--shot, falls, gets up, shot, falls, gets up, shot falls... ad nauseum! I can't imagine why none of the Orcs just walked up to him while he was down and chopped his head off! No, Boromir in the book was an unstoppable force, not falling once until he had ELEVEN ARROWS LODGED IN HIS BODY! And remember this: Jackson, while a brilliant director, isn't pulling this stuff out of a void. He's working with a novel that was voted the best novel of the 20th century in England. All of the brilliant dialogue in Fellowship is owed to J. R. R. Tolkien, who spent 40 years of his life perfecting his novel, and would have worked on it 40 more years had he been given the opportunity. Lucas is creating Star Wars from scratch--Star Wars is to Lucas what Lord of the Rings was to Tolkien. Star Wars is archaic and timeless. The dialogue between Anakin and Padme recall the kinds of things Romeo said to Juliet. No teen in their right mind would say, "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks?", and no teen would ever say, "My heart is beating, hoping that kiss will not become a scar." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I liked TPM. I really like AotC. I love ANH. I really like ESB. I liked RotJ. I love 'em all. Acting may not be too great, but Ewan McGregor at least is a good Obi-Wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace_sundancer Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 i agree with the jedi monk, really you can not compare LOTR to SW when one is a scratch written story and the other is an adaptation of a forty-plus year old story. it's like comparing, back to the future to the terminator movies because they're both about time travel... i also agree with his comments that people have grown up with the OT, but these films are meant for the kids of 2006 who are going to be sitting down watching the whole thing on DVD at home. the biggest problem with the PT is that people look back with rose-tinted specs at the OT and got over-excited and believed over-blown hype about TPM and when it didn't meet their expectations they got peed off and blamed lucas. i went to see TPM thing it looked quite neat in the trailer and hoped it would be good. in all honesty i thought it was an enjyable film and i was not disappointed. i went to see AOTC, thinking the trailer looked rock and i loved AOTC, i wanted to go right back in and watch it again there and then, not even LOTR or spiderman or x-men have had that effect on me. my only complaint was that we didn't get to see enough of anakin with /twosaber it was too much close-ups for my taste, needed more mid and long shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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